Is there proof of any of these Kitty Kelly allegations?

[WilliamPitt]

If so, can I see it?

If not, aren't we becoming Swift Boaters?

This whole thing still makes me nervous. The allegations are, frankly, so wacko that it is going to be pretty easy for the GOP to shoot holes full of them.

Besides, instead of reporting allegations that Bush snorted coke off his boyfriend's groin at Camp David (or whatever), wouldn't reminding people of the 1,000 dead soldiers in Iraq, the lack of WMDs, the torture at Abu Ghraib, the outing of a CIA officer, the connections between Chalabi and Iran, the Israeli spy in the Pentagon, the connection between Bush and the Swifties, all the dead civilians everywhere, the substantial failures of Bush et al. on 9/11, the crater in the economy, the lack of health care for everyone, the abandonment of the elderly, the evisceration of the environment, and by the way, if you think that crap is bad, wait 'till "Four More Years" becomes a reality...isn't that the better tack to take?

Grabbing the sensationalist Kelly banner makes it seem like we don't have anything else to talk about.

[underpants]

1. Yeah...I think she was on a different boat

Sorry I couldn't resist. Proof? Who the hell needs proof?

[azmesa207]

59. Proof who needs it

The republicans don't need proof why should she have it

[Bunny]

2. Two words:

Blow job.

That is what gets the public's interest, not the items in your post. Frankly, if Bush snorting coke off his boyfriend's ass is what it takes to get that moran out of the White House, so be it. And besides, WE didn't write this book. Kitty Kelly did.

[funky_bug]

16. But "we" don't have to embrace it

Seriously... it's not a legitimate issue. If it wants to hang out there and sway the simple-minded, so be it. It's just not going to be anything I touch with a ten-foot pole.

[seabeyond]

25. bush bah ha ha ha didnt do swift boat

oneil did, wink

[THUNDER HANDS]

3. so?

It's not like Kelley works for the Kerry campaign anyway. She's known. She's popular. She'll be believed by enough people to cause a small ripple.

Its up to us to make sure the ripple becomes a tsunami.

[seabeyond]

30. Its up to us to make sure the ripple becomes a tsunami

this is the part that makes us the same as repugs

but then that is what some on the board was calling for

[THUNDER HANDS]

and since they tend to win elections

I'd say taking a page out of their book is warranted.

[agingdem]

88. Take a page form FOX and CNN

"some people are saying"...

[Jim Sagle]

44. FNA right! That's exactly what I'm calling for. Boo-yah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[umtalal]

33. Beautiful Picture.

[umtalal]

48. I think you are right.

[umtalal]

60. thanks for the picture change.

[LoZoccolo]

4. Well see then we get into the issue of credibility.

If they want to have a discussion about that, then I say "let's".

[gmoney]

5. The morans have proven they don't care about substance...

...but they won't vote for a "damn homo drug hoover" (apols for non PC terms)

Even if they know about the deficit, the outing of Plame, dead soldiers, Chalabi, and all the rest, they don't care.

But we get rumors of homosexuality, drug use, and aborted babies, his base will fold.

[lgardengate]

144. I don't think so....

The repubs i know (even the Christians) don't care about 20 or 30 year old stuff.I just talked to my mom and several family members.They say Bush "changed his life" after his conversion and that even *IF* true it dosent have any relation to his life NOW.

This is what Kerry faces.Kerry gets no brakes but Bush gets a pass.

[mmonk]

6. I agree

If we need book promotions, I would think Graham's book would be better. There is so much real stuff to use, there's no need for sensational or dubious claims. We can also promote the things you've written.

[funky_bug]

7. You beat me to the punch

My thoughts are to back off the Kitty Kelly, Sun-esque rumor-mongering and take the higher road.

Back away from Kelly and embrace Graham. At least it's respectable and substantial. I'd rather not look like the silly Swifties.

Thanks for words of reason, as always.

[jab105]

71. agreed...

n/t

[Norbert]

117. It's in Kelley's book and Drudge's website.

I'm reserving judgement until much more reputable sources are saying it.

Much as I want to throw the rascals out I won't jump on every rumor. No SVFT here, please.

[kwolf68]

8. I agree here

I raised it in another thread. I guess will (and I) has an idea we can kick Dumbyas ass based on his abject failure as leader of this nation and not some sensationalist tabloid "news."

The only good thing about this is the Dem Party doesnt have anything to do with it.

[charlyvi]

9. Right, Will.

Kerry should "distance" himself from this crap and stick to the facts. Although, I hope the story makes the new rounds. They say payback is a bitch. But I think, if Kerry turns the debate to the lousy Bush* record--actually gets the FACTS out, he'll win. We don't need lies with a record like shrub's.

[MidwestTransplant]

38. He should say "I don't care if Bush used coke, that's not the issue of the

campaign!"

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

64. excellent,,.,,or this....

I dont know, didnt read the book,,,ask Bush...

[Pirate Smile]

143. "I don't know if George Bush has done cocaine while at Camp David, all

I know is he does take a lot of vacations."

[elperromagico]

10. I'm reminded of that legend about LBJ.

During a Senate race, he suggested to his campaign manager that they start a rumor that his opponent had carnal knowledge of cows. The campaign manager was taken aback: "Nobody will believe that!" And LBJ said, "No. But let's make the son of a bitch deny it."

:P

[WilliamPitt]

37. It was pigs

:)

[elperromagico]

63. You are indeed correct, sir.

My mistake. :D

[kstewart33]

11. From what I've read

Kitty Kelley has never been sued. She has a rep for being very thorough and keeping her ducks straight. If she is confident of what she writes in her book, it merits attention.

[greatauntoftriplets]

99. Slight correction to that.

She has been sued many times. Never successfully.

[billbuckhead]

12. The Kerry campaign should stay far away from it, but

some non campaign surrogates should push it hard to put BushRove off balance.

[LisaL]

13. We are not becoming anything.

We didn't write the book, this woman did.
Kerry certainly had absolutely nothing to do with this book.
Unlike Bush who seems to have a lot of connections to swift boat vets.

[David Dunham]

18. Kitty: Bush's Former Sister in Law Says He Used Coke in His 40s

His former sister in law is the witness.

[seabeyond]

34. sniff sniff......not long before

becoming governor

[David Dunham]

42. He was in his 40s when he took coke at Camp David

[Bunny]

40. Thank you. My point exactly. n/t

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

79. I can understand the discomfort of applauding a gossip book...

However, as others have said, the Kerry campaign has absolutely nothing to with it...and....if GWB and his family were the paragons of society that they purport to be, there would be very little material for any gossip writer. But, this family has LOTS of skeletons in the closet, and it was going to come out eventually. The timing is OK with me.

BTW, do you think GWB will ever be able to sit down and write his autobiography like President Clinton? He'll have to delete most of life up till his early 50's. MKJ

[buycitgo]

14. well, for starters, dems like Carville should NOT be talking it up already

they should leave it alone; let the media handle it

what good does it do for dems to take up this cudgel?

unfortunately, it's up to the media to handle it, and they'll do their damndest to ignore it

just watch

many of these allegations have been out there for DECADES!

ALL of them since before the selection

what did the media do with ALL of them?

what do you think they'll do now?

it's up to dems to stick with the truly horrible record assembled in the last four years

If the media choose to make a big deal out of any of these issues, it's icing on the cake; I hope they do, but what makes anybody think they will?

[bagnana]

26. What's the big deal. Does anyone doubt he was a cokehead?

He has already all but admitted it. If he was doing coke, then he was doing coke. Whether he did it at Camp David or elsewhere, what the hell difference does it make? None of this is even really new. He was an irresponsible idiotic cokehead, and then he became an irresponsible, idiotic born again Christian. That has been his answer all along and nothing in this book will change that.

[Cha]

116. When asked about allegations of this during the

2000 campaign..bush brushed everything aside in his arrogant, "how dare you ask me questions", manner.

I'm glad Kitty Kelly finally wrote the damn book. Let's watch how he brushes this aside.

[DieboldMustDie]

118. He's all but admitted doing coke prior to 1974.

Doing coke after he'd bee "born again" would be a very different matter, and would cast doubt on his sobriety today, something a number of us here have doubted for quit a while.

[Nashyra]

134. I would like theKerry response to be "Ask Bush"

He's had a DUI, so there is a reason for asking the question. Ask Bush, I was busy being a Senator.

[lancdem]

15. I agree

Let the media go with it. The Dems should keep their distance.

[Stephanie]

17. We need to DESTROY Bush, by any means necessary

Taking the high road is not enough and the future of hte planet is at stake. We have been skewering him on his lies and cover-ups for four years. It's not enough. Gloves off. It's the hypocrisy, stupid.

Hit 'em high
Hit 'em low
Hit 'em hard
Hit 'em again

Kitty Kelley's publisher would have had lawyers take a fine tooth comb to this book, I'm quite sure. I have full confidence that every allegation in the book is true. If nothing else, the humiliation of it all might cause him to have an emotional breakdown. I'm hoping it happens during the debates.

[LisaL]

23. It's not our problem

that Kitty decided to publish this book before the election.
Geez.

[meegbear]

19. I'll treat this like * with the SBVT ...

I'll comment on how smear tactics are wrong without mentioning the book or trying to disprove them.

I won't call for a ban on all books, though.

[roguevalley]

35. pols are going to be asked. they need to speak if asked. as for the

fact that its filled with personal revelations, well so what? people in a free society are entitled to write what they want and knowing Kelly, she has three sources and lawyer vetting for everything. No one is 'promoting' it and by speaking to a question asked, no one has to say more than free speech.

Frankly, if you wanna be in the spotlight, you better have clean skirts. Newt Gingrich started this thirty years ago. Because they are skewered by their own sword *FINALLY* doesn't mean we're responsible.

I can understand everyone's desire to be 'dignified and above board' but Kelly writing a book isn't our business, its hers. She's going to step into a buzz saw of *GIGANTIC* proportions and I salute her. She has guts. Personally, I'm tired of the whole 'wal-mart, okie' vibe going around. This is America. Read what you want. Believe what you want. Diletantism is getting old.

This is different from swift boat. They lied. Kelly won't. Big difference.

[ramblin_dave]

20. There's no proof the allegations are even in her book

Where are these leaks coming from? Are they really leaks or disinformation?

[MikeG]

21. Kerry should come out and advocate banning ALL books.

[LisaL]

28. All books?

Except for "My pet goat" maybe?
If president Bush doesn't read, why should you sort of thing?

[MikeG]

31. You know, like Bush wanting to ban all 527's

[seabeyond]

43. that wuld just be the funniest.....n/t

[Nite Owl]

22. What do 'we' have to

do with it? She doesn't work for the Dems or the Kerry campaign. It just happens to be the news of the day. It's out there therefore it should be discussed. If it isn't true all they have to do is show some proof.

[merh]

24. Well, Will, since I haven't read the book I have no idea what proof, if

any, Miss Kelly has that back up her allegations. I do know that Kelly has not been successfully sued for her books and if *&co. could prevent it from being published, they would. Random House isn't a fly by night publishing house, like the group that published the swifties' lies.

You are right about the true issues, unfortuanately, if you talk to prospective voters about the true issues, they turn you off and say that * is a true leader and that he has never lied.

If Kelly's book shakes the foundation of their beliefs in the idiot, then more power to it.

I, myself will read it, but I think Graham's book has more substance that will help in debunking the myth that the idiot is strong on fighting the war on terra!

[Virginian]

137. I think this book will appeal to the female Bush supporters.

She might be able to change a few minds that no other source could. These women wouldn't believe you or me. They might not even believe what they read, but it will make them think about it.

[in_cog_ni_to]

27. I believe his ex sister-in-law

saw him doing the drugs. She must have seen Laura tootin' on some weed too. Maybe she's signed an affidavit like the smearboaters? :shrug:

Where's all the smearboat liar's PROOF? I'm still waiting.

Think back to the Clinton days. Did the repukes need proof of ANYTHING they accused Clinton of? No. The garbage they dished on Clinton was OK for them then, this is no different. The tables are turned. NOW they don't like it. Too bad. What goes around, comes around. IMCPO.

[democrat in Tallahassee]

29. If Sharon Bush is the source, does that give it legitimacy?

[Dr Fate]

32. The media needs to "get to the bottom" of this, like they did Swiftboats

DEMS need to say:

"The allegations are probably false, just like the Swift-boat ads. As with those false SBV ads, the media needs to spend a week or so getting to the bottom of this. Then, hopefully that will clear the air and journalists can begin to focus on issues again."

[LisaL]

36. How do we know if the allegations are false?

Unless, of course, Bush addresses those allegations. LOL.

[many a good man]

39. The party must withold comment and let the people decide for themselves

Kerry should say: "I want to debate my opponent on the issues and what he has done in the White House, not on rumors about his personal life."

The campaign needs to steal a page from the right wing handbook: don't identify with the sowers of outrageous accusations, but bring them up every chance you get...

[umtalal]

80. Exactly! Besides the GOP will not sue her because it will bring attention

to her book.

[punpirate]

41. When the book comes out, have a look at her...

... sourcing. A lot of it has probably come from Sharon Bush, and in a legal sense, she's not a disinterested witness.

I agree that Kelley's allegations should not supercede the other issues of the campaign.

However, as many here know, there is a substantive number of people in the country who will vote for Bush, regardless of the issues, because they perceive him to be an upstanding, honest, and particularly moral man.

If her book pops a few hallowed balloons amongst the more mindless of the voters, fine and good.

If the substance of her book is not true, the press, as much as it respects (or fears) the Bushies, will ferret out her misstatements. They're likely to work much harder on that task than they have on the administration's statements about the war.

If the work is patently libelous, I'm sure the Bush family will file suit to suppress it.

M'self, I think Bush is a privileged, rich kid sociopath with no morals at all, and if the book says the same thing, it's always nice to have one's views confirmed.

Cheers.

[mbali]

123. If Sharon Bush is the source: Payback is a Mutha, isn't it?

[umtalal]

45. Who Are You Kidding? Taking the Hight Road Took Us to Where?

Just look at the GOP hatefest? They used emotions to rally the troops. Kerry does not have to hold the banner of scum, as Bush does and he says I did not disapprove of the liars boat thugs. I think we can spread this story until Bush is blue in the face.

[DancingBear]

46. It MUST be talked about

Bush has cultivated an image foreign to what he truly is. He has lied about himself and his past for years, and his cabal has been able to convince a good part of the populace that what they see truly is the measure of the man.

This facade MUST be torn down. Once this happens, his credibility on other matters becomes suspect. If this book helps, then talk it up everywhere. Bush MUST be put on the defensive, and if this helps then it should be out there. Whether we like it or not, this book WILL be read, and voting opinions will be formed. If used correctly, it is a political gift horse.

Have we forgotten that if this was a Clinton tell all, it would be 24/7 everywhere?

[mmonk]

47. One problem I see

if the public deems it a smear and false, they may disregard true things written about him thinking it too, is false and a smear.

[LisaL]

53. So far, his supporters seem to ignore all the true things

written about him anyway.

[Frances]

61. I wouldn't overestimate the public that supports Bush

Sure, people on this board are thoughtful and honest, but we're all going to vote for Kerry anyway.

Remember when the DUI arrest came out about Bush in 2000 and the info cut into his poll numbers?

Bush says he had nothing to do with the Swift Boat Vets; we on DU know that is not true; however, the attacks hurt Kerry.

Now Dems have nothing whatsoever to do with Kitty Kelley. Her source is a Republican ex-sister-in-law.

Kerry has had to defend his record against liars who have been rewarded by the Bush family.

I see nothing wrong with Bush having to defend his record against a much more reputable person that the Kerry attackers.

[Ernesto]

49. Go easy on the sheeple here

If they like to read about Jacko, Peterson, Condit, Kobe & all that sexsational crap, then let them read Ms Kelly's book too..... It works for me! (and it just might work against the chimp)

[slor]

50. Let us be careful...

this is not "we", this is a writer, whom, on her own volition, decided to write a book, based on statements from the ex-wife of one of the chimp's brother. The Democratic Party did not have anything to do with this, financial, or otherwise. Quite frankly, it may only hurt * with some of his evangelical base, but that works for me. Some of what I have read, appear to be based on facts, but we shall see.

[LisaL]

52. Exactly.

Kitty wrote the book. Democrats had absolutely nothing to do with this book. I don't know if Kitty is even interested in politics, is she? If Bush wants to sue Kitty-great for him!
LOL.

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

62. Kerry should say this..."I didnt read the book....its not about me...

...cant comment on it...you should ask Bush".

[wryter2000]

51. Yes and no

We don't seem to do too well when we stick to the moral high ground.

In any case, the thing for me is that Kitty Kelly isn't operating at the behest of Kerry and the DNC. What we say or do about her book isn't going to have any real effect.

[annabanana]

54. true or not? WE MUST GET TO THE BOTTOM OF THIS

We must hunt, and search and repeat and repeat and say that "some say it's a lie that he did coke at Camp David, some say it's true" fair and balanced!

[indie_voter]

57. What she said! n/t

[Dr Fate]

75. I agree- the point is that the media needs to GET TO THE BOTTOM of this...

True or not, they need to investigate these charges, just like they did the Swift-boat "story"

[Fleshdancer]

55. For me, it would be like believing one of Drudge's "exclusives"

Granted, I do get a good laugh over the allegations, especially the mental image of Pickles getting stoned, but unless Bush did something EXTREMELY stupid like getting his picture taken snorting some lines, it won't be taken seriously.

Then again, we are a Jerry Springer society, so maybe I'm completely wrong. Who knows. Nothing seems to make sense to me anymore.

The first thing I thought of though after first reading about this is how I'm SO glad I'm not Sharon Bush right now. :scared:

[TriMetFan]

56. Who care about PROOF!

The Republicans did care about Truth when Clinton was President or with the swift boat ads against Kerry. Also The Republicans made a big deal about Clinton not serving in Vietnam or if he dad smoked pot. Sorry but if the reason for Bush being AWOL was cause he was to coked up, that is a big deal.

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

58. My take, is that its good, if its more on the scuttlbut level...

you know, like those anonymous chain e-mails.....or the BS posted on internet talkboards?

....sort of "water cooler talk"....

The campaing can hit on Bush on legit issues, and let the scuttlebut work down at the average joe level....

[acmavm]

65. I posted this before, no one in the Kerry/Edwards camp wrote the book,

no one associated with the Democratic party wrote the book. Make that point loud, and make it frequently. But somehow this just goes along with the old saying about revenge being a b****, and paybacks being a m***** f*****. (I've heard that phrase a hundred times, and for once I think I understand what it means.)

The funny thing about this is that this tactic his soooo like something you would expect from KKKarl Rove. But this time it's his boy's on the receiving end. Not once, not twice, but three different times this month.

I doubt that Kerry or Edwards will even be bringing this stuff up. But if someone does, let them say that it's up to bush* to disprove the stories, they don't really have anything to say about them. And that's true, it's not Kerry's problem or Edwards.

But as for people here getting such a big kick out of this, can you blame them (myself included)? Being on the receiving end of the slurs by Ken Starr and his crotch sniffers for how many years, and then all the nasty stories they've been slinging around about Theresa Heinz Kerry, Kerry's military record, etc., it's just a hoot that they're getting the what goes around comes around treatment.

[progressivebydesign]

128. Couldn't put it better, myself.. tho I tried in a post below! n/t

[Zen Democrat]

66. If Sharon Bush says she saw Junior snort coke at Camp David ...

what's the big problem with believing her? It's not like we don't know that his brain is fried from drugs and alcohol.

Kelley has made a lot of remarks in past books that may or may not have been true, but they were attributed to sources.

The stuff she wrote about Frank Sinatra's mother being a back-alley abortionist has been generally accepted as truth. Google that one and see for yourself.

Besides Carville brought up Kelley's book on Crossfire today. Nobody's gonna run and hide from it. Are you crazy?

[Pepperbelly]

67. If she's fibbing, let the Bushes sue her. If they do not ...

I'll leave that to the imagination.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

68. Will

I would certainly be horrified if Kerry or his aides took up the allegations in Kelly's book.

But sadly, I've learned too many of my fellow Americans just don't give a shit about the stuff you listed. I honestly write that with a heavy heart, as THAT is the stuff we should ALL be concerned with.

But I know someone who is voting for Kerry (who voted for bush in 2000) based on how "CUTE!!!" Edwards and his family is and how loving the Kerry family looks. Yep, that's why she's voting for Kerry-Edwards. And who am I to complain, but DAMN. THAT'S what her vote is based on???

Things like that scare me about the American electorate.

And I say Kerry and the rest of us should keep hammering home the issues in your post. They are legitimate, they are substantial, they are real and they are harmful.

But if Kelly and others want to float the issues she brings up in her book and it harms bush's chances, far be it for me to pooh-pooh it.

[LisaL]

73. Yes, but at least she isn't saying she will

vote for Bush because of how cute Cheney is. If that was the case, I would recommend she had her head examined.
:)

[DieboldMustDie]

119. Or at least her eyes.

;)

[Zookeeper]

132. Your friend, and folks like her,

are the ones who can be swayed by these accusations, if their choice is made based on whether the candidate is "cute" or creepy (which is how Bush may appear after this book is published). Lots of people would avoid supporting a candidate tainted with tacky scandals.

[peacetalksforall]

69. No one should emphasize anything that took place in the 70's because

the environment was very different. If Laura did anything in the 70's or before - forget about it.

Timing is important in what you choose to pursue. When did mandatory sentencing start? That is the starting point or call it the cut-off point. That is when ultra-high moral standards were imposed on the citizens of this country and right wing hypocrits trap themselves.

It appears * exceeded the cut-off date.

It would be more effective and serious to go after every instance where law enforcement officials looked the other way and higher ups in the Party got records erased. That way the House of Bush and the Party suffers. Go after records or no records.

Use caution if you dwell on what a former in-law is spilling. Very base. Very energy wasting.

[Fleshdancer]

70. I did a little research....

After writing my post above, I started to wonder what publisher would have the cajones to publish a book like this considering the subject and the timing.

My guess is that Doubleday (the publishing co) is relying on the fact that it's a Kitty Kelley book so it will probably make big $$:

From amazon...

About the Author

Kitty Kelley is the internationally acclaimed bestselling author of Jackie Oh!; Elizabeth Taylor: The Last Star; His Way: The Unauthorized Biography of Frank Sinatra; Nancy Reagan: The Unauthorized Biography; and The Royals. The last three titles were all #1 on the New York Times bestseller list. Ms. Kelley has been honored by her peers with such awards as the Outstanding Author Award from the American Society of Jouranlists and Authors, the Philip M. Stern Award, and the Medal of Merit from the Lotos Club of New York City. Her articles have appeared in the New York Times, the Washington Post, the Wall Street Journal, Newsweek, People, Ladies Home Journal, McCall's, the Los Angeles Times, and the Chicago Tribune. She lives in Washington, D.C., with her physician husband, Jonathan Zucker.

_________________________

I never would have guessed she was this successful. I guess juicy gossip DOES always win in America. :shrug:

[Julian English]

72. While Bush deserves smearing...

Bush deserves smearing for his bad domestic and foreign policies. Sure, saying bad things about the sliminess that is W is fun--but they won't help the nation, particularly if they are not true.

His acts as president are slimey enough to hang W. Sticking with advertising the evil W has wrought will win the election.

Will Pitt said a mouthful.

[TA]

74. Was there any proof of the SwiftBoatVeteransforTruth lies?

There were many ties to the SBVT gang and Bush and the Republican Party. Kitty Kelly is simply a gossip book writer. She can write what she wants. Let the Bush family and the Republican Party now deal with this type of bullshit - they deserve it.

[Democat]

76. As much proof as the Swift Liars, who damaged Kerry

Our job is to win, not to be nice.

The Swift Lies hurt Kerry more than any truth, and we need to hurt Bush. This is not a game - soldiers will die if Kerry loses and Bush starts more wars.

Whatever it takes to win, as long as it's legal - that's the rules that the right wing plays by and it's the rules we will have to accept.

[Zynx]

77. Prove that it's not true!

That's what Republicans say.

[in_cog_ni_to]

87. Yes! let them prove that it's a lie.

Let's see how they do. I can't wait.

[dreadneck]

78. sound bytes

must talk in sound bites
electorate attention span limited
three seconds is all you get

brilliant litany, by the way

[White Mountain]

81. "This whole thing still makes me nervous."

I hear you. If this comes across as yellow journalism then it could backlash.

This kind of book is more effective a week before an election.

[bambo53]

82. Of course you're right Will,

We should never say that Bush is a AWOL, deserting, coke snortin, drunk driving, lying, stealing SOB. That would be just plain mean, and I will denounce anyone that says Bush is a coke snortin, desertin, AWOL, drunk drivin, lyin, stealin SOB.

And I hate it when "some people" say Laura Bush killed an Innocent 17 year old boy, and was never charged. I hate hearing that story told by some people. Some people even say she was dead drunk when she did it. Can you believe it?

So please people, stop saying Bush is a drunk drivin, coke snortin, AWOL, war desertin, pin head... it's just plain mean, and Kerry just might get elected.

[ClassWarrior]

86. You forgot "abortion-gettin'"...

I'm sure you'd never say that either.

Neither would I.

[Jack Rabbit]

106. You can say that

Because we know most of it is true. There's nothing new about credible charages that Bush used coke, drank heavily (he admits to that), etc.

What is bad about the Kelley book is that she pretends that she's documenting details of these indecretions. This is the same person who told us about Nancy Reagan having a tryst with Frank Sinatra. She has no credibility. She publishes sensatinalist garbage for a living. While there's no reason to doubt Bush is a shady character and there is a broad basis to believe that he used cocaine, there is no reason to believe that any of the details provided by Ms. Kelley are true.

In the black-and-white world of the Rove spin machine, if any doubt can be cast on the specifics of Ms. Kelley's allegations, then it must mean that Bush is a paragon of virtue. That's nonsense, of course, that will be how it is played. And don't think for a minute that there won't be some "facts" that Ms. Kelley has provided us that won't check out.

[Kenneth ken]

83. which "we" are you talking about?

I think the "we" at DU should avoid this as a pointless topic.

It would be kind of fun if "we" the letter writing public, could generate tons of letters on the topic, and get it brought right to the top of mainstream media topics; especially if the Dem officials, when asked about it, would then turn around and say something along the lines of, "well, it's an allegation, but what George did years ago doesn't concern me nearly as much as what his policies have done to the economy in the past three and a half years."

(but, of course, the media decides what it wants to publish, with no regard to what "we" might wish them to publish, so no certainty that 20 million letters on these allegations would result in even one getting published.)

The other "we" is thee - as a voice at Truthout you can raise the allegations as a way to draw in readers and then shift focus to the real issues. See my-hoped-for-Dem-responses above.

edit: I really need to use the spell-check feature. . .

[SmokeyTheBear]

84. agreed.....

it makes us seem 'desperate' when we shouldn't be!

[Bridget Burke]

85. Kitty Kelley announced this book just after Bush took office.

She writes gossipy books for her living--& a very good living it is. And she's never been successfully sued. When she announced the book, Sharon Bush thought she was still happily married to Neil; so, even if she's a source, she is not the source.

I fully agree that Kerry needs to campaign on more meaningful topics. It's not as if there were a shortage of reasons that Bush is a lousy president. Keep working & stay on the high road. As a private citizen, I'll use the "real" topics in conversations with those who might be swayed towards Kerry.

If the Bush campaign does feel the need to expend a lot of energy against this book, good.

[RamboLiberal]

89. I'm with those who said we or Kerry didn't write it

and we're not promoting it. But if the media choose to have Kelley on - so what. I'm going to sit back and enjoy. And I'm getting the book and a good bottle of wine and some snacks and having a wonderful evening reading it when I receive it.

Hey we know these allegations are probably true - won't it be nice to have it out there?

After how the SBVL's are smearing Kerry and we know Rove and * are up to their elbows in that, let's have a little fun.

BTW, Sludge has managed to push the Kelley book up to #12 (it was in the 40's yesterday), and on B&N it's at 35 (it was hardly a blip yesterday). This is going to sell bigger than the SBVL's book.

Let the Freepers have a taste of their own medicine.

When Kerry wins I know a certain Freeper at work I'm going to make a gift of the Kelley book to. :evilgrin:

[VOX]

90. Wouldn't be surprised to see the GOP demand that Kerry denounce the book..

The Rethugs will probably try to spin Kelley's book into a smear campaign headed up by Democrats, and they will be drawing up Kelley - Kerry degrees of separation, etc.

All Kerry has to to is pull a page from the SwiftLiars play book -- this is an individual who has a decided opinion, a right to express that opinion, and who elected herself to write a book about * , but she has no connection whatsoever to the Kerry campaign, etc.

[troublemaker]

95. No they won't, becaue Kerry will denounce it before it's published.

[KC21304]

111. And when asked to denounce the book, he should say

he denounces all books that are made up of lies, like the Swiftliars book. And he knows what it is like to be slimed by lies. He of course does NOT have to say that Kelley's book is not truthful.

[DieboldMustDie]

121. Kerry can simply reply...

"I don't know Ms. Kelley and I haven't read her book. I can't very well comment on a book I haven't read." I'm assuming, of course, that he doesn't know Kitty Kelley. :shrug:

[Virginian]

141. I second your answer. All in favor...

[kentuck]

91. Don't wanna put all the eggs in one basket.....

But Kerry can stay out of this story with a simple "no comment"....Sort of like Bush with the SBVT ads.... :) Let it rock.

[in_cog_ni_to]

92. I have proof...this is all I need.

It's more than they ever had on Clinton. I have a picture of the chimp with Coke under his nose. He's guilty. :hi:

[troublemaker]

93. Oh, please

"The allegations are, frankly, so wacko that it is going to be pretty easy for the GOP to shoot holes full of them."

Yes, and barbed wire is easy to cut through with bolt cutters, but it's still used on battlefields to slow people down. If these stories are easy to poke holes in then let these rat bastards waste a few weeks poking holes in them.

Bush is an alcoholic and has tacitly admitted to drug use, so these stories--true or false--have *some* credibility insofar as they are not facially absurd. Now going to Vietnam planning to be wounded... that's absurd.

And in the realm of truth for truth's sake... Bush has certainly lied about his history of drug use and probably about his arrest record, so if he wants to tell the truth we can talk about what he says, instead of talking about what people who know him say.

[Jack Rabbit]

94. I partly agree with you, Will

Frankly, I think it would be improper to make too much of what Ms. Kelley has to say. I still don't seriously believe Nancy Reagan had a tryst with Frank Sinatra or blew dope in the White House, but Ms. Kelley published that manure a few years back.

The only difference here is that Ms. Kelley is not connected with the Kerry campaign. The Swift Boat Liars are still trying convince us that they're not connected to the Bush campaign, although that is very difficult to believe. Since Ms. Kelley has done this sort of thing before, we can only assume she does it for the money.

And you're absolutely right, we have better things with more solid evidence to talk about than Ms. Kelley's rumor and innuendo.

[Amaya]

96. I understand where you're coming from...

In my opinion, the American public isn't really interested in 1,000 dead soldiers in Iraq, the lack of WMDs, the torture at Abu Ghraib, and so on. Call me cynical, because I am.

I do think, this book may have a backlash for Kerry and the Dem party.
But what do I know?

[LizW]

97. Bush has repeatedly made his character an issue

in the election. He has portrayed himself as an exceptionally religious man, even to the point of being chosen by God as the ruler of the free world. His loyalists continuously point to Bush's character as the reason they are voting for him.

Yes, we have plenty else to talk about. But we have talked until we're blue in the face. Movies have been made. Book after book has been published. And still, Bush's hold on the religious right keeps him even with Kerry (a man so superior in character and leadership that it's amazing there is even any discussion of the issue).

I don't know if Kitty Kelly's allegations are true. But I believe that Bob Graham's are. I believe that Seymour Hersh's are. I believe that John Dean's are. And so I don't care anymore what it takes to get rid of Bush and the cabal.

[Zen Democrat]

98. I'll tell you the difference --

We know Chimp had a drug problem and if Sharon wants to attest to it, then she was in a position to know. And she's not a part of the Kerry political machine.

The Swifties were bought and paid for by Rove -- and they were liars.

[TreasonousBastard]

100. I'm in the "who cares" camp...

and can't imagine why anyone else would. Kelly has proven that she can take care of herself very well, thengyouvverramuch.

Kelly's never had any problems with any of the allegations in her books, but I doubt her books had much of an effect on Sinatra or Elizabeth Taylor fans.

Be that as it may, Palast, Conason, a dozen or so others, and you yourself have written good books about the sins of the Shrubbees and have pretty well gotten as far as you're going to go at this point.

Let the gossipmongers take a shot at it this time, and let's see what happens.

[hyphenate]

101. I can't remember what her record is

But she wrote the Reagan bio back around 1991, and I remember the Reagan family being furious. However, whether they sued or wrote it off as little more than tabloid writing, I can't recall. She also wrote a bio on Frank Sinatra, and that also elicited a great deal of anger, but again, I don't recall the resulting brouhaha about its validity.

[proud patriot]

102. supposedly James Hatfield (RIP) had the proof

I'd follow that trail to find it Will .

just my 2 cents

[greatauntoftriplets]

103. "The Royals" is banned in Britain.

The Windsors (Saxe-Coburg-Gothas, etc.) seem scared shitless of Kitty Kelley.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0446605786/qid=1094512360/sr=ka-2/ref=pd_ka_2/102-4320757-1164130

And she has never been successfully sued.

[realcountrymusic]

104. Kerry can take the high road, Kelley the low road

and we'll see who gets to Scotland afore ye.

Kerry should *denounce* the *spurious* and *irrelevant* charges in THAT BOOK in NO UNCERTAIN TERMS. He should do so loudly and often. All other democrats should do the same. The more we do, the hotter the charges and the book will become and the more they will be discussed and the more we will be able to say that UNLIKE SHRUB, we "denounced" the politics of "personal destruction" and we are SHOCKED and HORRIFIED to see these FALSE CHARGES getting SO MUCH attention in the media. After all, what man hasn't made a FEW MISTAKES or had a CHANGE OF HEART over the course of, say, thirty years or so? Kelley's book is *DISHONEST and DISHONORABLE.* Remember we DENOUNCE IT in NO UNCERTAIN TERMS.

Lather, rinse, repeat.

In the words of Mike Malloy, "Did I mention how much I hate these people?" I hope they stew in their own shit for an eternity. I want them gone by any (legal) means necessary. Karl Rove would not hesitate (has not hesitated) for an instant to practice such tactics. Please, Karl, don't throw us in that briar patch. Asshole.

RCM

[Bluebear]

105. "The Family, published by Doubleday, is beneath contempt!......

That's right! The Family, available for $20.37 at amazon.com or your local bookseller is absolutely irrelevant. We denounce this book by Kitty Kelley, that's Kelley with two e's....."

[realcountrymusic]

108. And let us refuse . . .

to mention that for a mere $4.63 or so in additional expenditure, Amazon.com will send you this book and, say, a more serious tome such as Senator Graham's *Intelligence Matters* with free shipping.

You can determine for yourself what a detestable piece of hack journalism this is merely by reading the summary at http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0385503245/qid=1094514239/sr=8-1/ref=pd_ka_1/104-2937385-8310338?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

RCM

[Scorpious_Maximus]

107. Who needs proof when there is the American Media? n/t

It's about time we abused the system the way the pugs do.

[Triana]

109. if 'some people say' is enough "truth"

...for allegations against Kerry, then 'some people say' is good enough truth for allegations against bu$hit too.

On the other hand, YES, we ought to be concentrating on the REAL issues.

My habit (for good or bad) is to use crap like this to point out their hypocrisy and sliming of their opponent when someone finally slimes them the same way. If it's 'good' (bad) enough for Kerry then bu$hit can have same.

It appears to me that Kerry is, however, sticking to the issues as you say and I'd rather he did and kept his distance from the trash allegations (even if they're likely to have some truth to them.

Let the surrogates take care of sliming bu$hit. And, as another DUer pointed out, Kitty Kelly isn't a 527 so...let her rip.

;)

[RhodaGrits]

110. We can talk about facts til we are all blue in the face...

the airheads reply with "I trust him to keep me safe" and "He's real people and someone I trust". I'm sick of it. If it takes this kind of crap to rattle their "trust"... whatever.

I agree, Kerry should say that what he wants to talk about is the issues and Bush's record and Kerry's plan for America... and let the talking heads rip Bush apart over Kelley's book. He deserves every bit of this.

[Junkdrawer]

112. Yes, and when pressed to condemn Kelley, Kerry should...

wryly smile and say "I guess if I were my opponent, I would reiterate my call to ban all books published during an election season."

Oh and all Kerry supporters in the press should say that Bush asked for this by making his character such an issue.

[Nashyra]

138. Amen

[blue neen]

113. It's kind of like when the school bully finally gets the snot kicked out

of him. Everybody says, "It couldn't happen to a NICER guy!!!"

I know I feel like we've been pushed around by the bullies long enough. If Kitty Kelley is the one to knock the snot out of them, so be it.

Even John Edwards said on Friday, "We've had it with this." (Smears)

[Fozzledick]

114. Remember the story about Adlai Stevenson?

When a supporter told him that he had the vote of every thinking person, he replied; "That's not enough, I need a majority!"

John Kerry already has the vote of every thinking person, for all the reasons you mentioned and more, just as Boy George has a lock on his core constituency: the hardcore fascists, racists and fundamentalist totalitarians. Neither group is a majority.

Unfortunately, this election, like most others, will be determined by the apathetic, uninvolved middle group that's too lazy, irresponsible and self-centered to pay attention to real issues or even listen to real arguments. The only way to reach them is with a simple, emotional appeal that requires no explanation or effort to understand. The B*sh Crime Family understands this and has based its' campaign on simple emotional attacks that don't need to be true to be effective.

While I personally believe in the intrinsic power of truth to prevail in the long run, it still has to be simplified and focused enough to reach the apathetic middle group without requiring any intellectual effort on their part, and George Wimpy's long history of cowardice, untreated drug addiction, criminal fraud, and the numerous felonies required to cover it all up provide just the ammunition needed to get through to them while still retaining the penetrating power of uncompromised truth.

Playing by the Marquis of Queensbury rules while your opponent is biting below the belt is just how Al Gore lost the presidency even after winnig the election!

[Julien Sorel]

115. Who needs proof? "Some people say..." is the standard

our media have defaulted to. Proof? What is that?

[many a good man]

120. We are NOT becoming Swift Boaters!

And of course we have LOTS to talk about. But this campaign can't be boiled down to "its the economy, stupid." We can't talk to ourselves in the corner mumbling about important issues that never get through the media filter. Sensationalism is the only way to get past the one sentence nightly media allotment to THE MOST IMPORTANT RACE in this country's history.

We need to take the shotgun approach and send many messages to several different audiences all stressing the same message: Bush* is UNFIT.

Kelly's book may be only one bee-bee or shell in the fusillade to come. Kerry said "brint it on" and they did. They will have only themselves to blame.

[chaska]

122. Spreading it around, all the filth that's ... deserved ... and true.

I once met a man who said (seemed very credible to me - no reason to lie) that he was part of a group that sold cocaine to Bush. He went to prison for his crimes. Bush? Not so much....

If anybody wants to interview the guy, it can be arranged.

[Randy4Randi]

124. Who has more credibility?

Swift Boat Vets with medals or Kitty Kelly?

I wonder which the undecided voters will choose.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

139. Swift Boat Vets who are paid operatives or an author with no axe to grind

That's a more HONEST description.

[Bush_Eats_Beef]

125. If Kitty Kelly wrote the book, how are "we" becoming Swift Boaters

...and who exactly is "we?"

If the allegations are "wacko" and "the GOP to shoot(s) holes full of them," so be it...c'est la frigging VIE. Let 'em. It will keep them busy.

Regarding your final comment, "Grabbing the sensationalist Kelly banner makes it seem like we don't have anything else to talk about"...

First, who is grabbing the banner? It's a controversial book, and I can't equate discussing it on DU with grabbing a banner.

Second, if discussing the book "makes it seem like we don't have anything else to talk about"...makes it seem that way to who? You? The majority of posters on DU?

As much as I hate to see the mods do "busy work," if the Kitty Kelly threads get too numerous and out of hand, they will lock them down. Until then, if we start lining people up and telling them what to post and how to post it, this web site risks becoming nothing more than the "progressive" Free Republic. People have to be allowed to draw their own conclusions. Within the boundaries of the "rules and regulations" and "acceptable use policy" of DU, people have the right to discuss whatever is on their minds. If it's out of alignment with another DU-er's opinion of how the campaign should be handled, maybe people don't want to be scolded or shown the perceived error of their ways. Maybe they have something to say and they choose to say it on an public Internet message board. When they violate the policy, they get tombstoned. For those who don't like what's being posted, there's the "ignore user" and "hide thread" functions.

[RetroLounge]

126. I say we react like bush* did with the SmearVets

and call for a ban on all books...

RL

[progressivebydesign]

127. I think the whole thing is hilarious...

.. the woman writes these books about everyone! She's not connected to Kerry, she's not connected to the Democrats, she writes books that the Enquirer and Sun reading public love. It's trashy stuff meant to make the regular folks feel one up on the rich and famous. That's why they gobble up those tabloids.. it makes them feel better about themselves to hear how fucked up the rich and famous are, too.

I can't fathom how anyone could make a leap in thinking that this book somehow reflects on the Democrats or Kerry. I can't wait to read it, it'll be a hoot! I'm pre-ordering tomorrow.

You know, it's not like we're all posting her every word like it's some fact.. it's just deliciously trashy crap.

[bvar22]

129. If you find yourself in a ....

...DEATH MATCH CAGE with SATAN, forget about fighting by the rules!

Kitty Kelly has NOTHING to do with John Kerry or the Democratic Party or DU. If she has made any unsupported allegations in her book, them she will have to defend them-----not us, not John Kerry, and not the Democratic Party.

I am going to buy a copy and I will enjoy reading it and passing it on to a friend.

[sendero]

130. Will.....

.... you seem to ignore the first rule of propaganda. How much of the SBV ads is true and can be verified? 20% at best?

Who gives a rat's ass how much of it is true and provable? The voters don't care one freaking bit. They want red meat, and the Dem party is unable to provide any, even though Bush* and Co provide a trough of red meat justification daily.

Frankly, I don't care one bit how provable the charges are. The people listening won't listen closely to the rebuttals anyway. No amount of "the jury will disregard that remark" will remove the allegations from the minds of the electorate. Screw this ridiculous idea that Americans give a shit about the objective truth. If they did, Bush* would be polling at 10%, not high forties.

Enough already.

[John_H]

131. My admiral friend says chimp made the cocaine himself.

[louis c]

133. Kitty Kelley has a right to her opinion

let her state it. Bush can respond, if he wishes.

After all. much of these allegations come from Bush's own Sister-in Law. After all, she was closer to Bush than that asshole O'neil was to Kerry, and look at all the credibility the Media gave his bullshit.

As far as we're concerned, all George has to do is answer the allegations, and then we can move on to the issues.

Ya, right. The American people love dirt, and they're about to get a mountain full.

[Tatiana]

135. I have no problem with giving the Bushies a taste of their own medicine.

Personally, I hope they choke on it.

We can hammer the real issues. The war in Iraq, Senator Graham's findings, no WMDs, the deaths of our soldiers and innocent Iraqi civilians, the smears of the Swift Boat Liars, the awful economy and lack of job creation, health care, and so much more.

This is a war. The Kerry camp can lead the frontal assault with the legitimate issues and Kitty can flank with the dirt of Georgie. We need all the ammo we can get. Perhaps when the Bushies get a taste of their own toxic medicine, they'll think twice before attempting to unfairly smear someone else.

[Kazak]

136. With Kelly's revelations, along with all of the facts you mention...

Who in their right fucking mind would actually vote for this fool for President of the United States? I seriously do not understand these people.

Isn't Scott McLelland going to have to answer some toughies over this?

[bigtree]

140. Way to lead

Mr. Truthout editor. :thumbsup:

[Eric J in MN]

142. No, we aren't becoming Swift Boaters. No one on this board

signed a false affadavit or made a false claim in a tv commercial related to the Kitty Kelley book.

Also, while the Bush campaign is connected the Swift Boar Liars, the Kerry campaign has nothing to do with Kitty Kelley.

If Sharon Bush lied-BIG IF- then she may be like a Swift Boat Liar, but even then it doesn't mean that WE are like the Swift Boat Liars.

[Domitan]

145. What I find striking here,

should the rumoured allegations about Poppy Bush actually be in Kitty's book, is that some of these allegations have already been written in Tarpley's Unauthorized Biography of George H. W. Bush (1991)...such as his pedophilia, his "Rubbers" nickname, and the drug-running.

Fret about this, Will, if you choose to...but remember that Kitty planned this in early 2001. She is not doing this for the Democrats, but for her pursuit of putting forth the most shocking juicy stuff about certain famous people.

[UTUSN]

146. Not That I Want to, But How Do I Get 200 Posts to Every Danged Thread? n/

[Catherine Vincent]

148. Don't sweat it. Will's a popular poster here.

He's cool. (and he's kind of cute)

[Chomskyite]

147. Yep

The best tack is to ignore it and if the networks pick it up, all to the good. But we would keep our heads down and keep doing our jobs.

[barb162]

149. we can all pretend we are shocked, SHOCKED by the book

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

150. George W. Bush on videotape, importing cocaine into the U.S.

Somewhere on the Internet during the 2000 campaign I read a story about that, posted on a kind of only semi-reliable website the name of which I don't recall. If I remember correctly, there is supposed to be a videotape that was taken by the DEA as part of a drug sting operation. George Bush and his brother Jeb supposedly were videotaped landing an airplane carrying a cocaine shipment into the United States and getting busted by the DEA. The jet belonged to drug dealer Bobby Seal, who was supposedly working with the CIA and who was killed shortly thereafter under strange circumstances. As I vaguely recall, the DEA didn't know that George and Jeb were participating in an illegal arms for drugs operation to the Contras being run out of Poppy's CIA office with the help of Oliver North. The CIA supposedly put the breaks on the sting operation and, I presume, destroyed the video.

I'm not saying this is a legitimate story and I haven't really looked for it very hard, since reading it about 4 years ago. But, if true, it might explain where George got his blow.

[GOPAgainstGW]

151. AFTER BOOK IS OUT KITTY STARTS BOOK TOUR IN TEXAS!! BAAAWAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!

"Family: The Real Story of the Bush Dynasty"
By Kitty Kelly
Release Date: 9/14/04

The “tell all” Queen lowers her journalistic hammer on the Family few dare touch, in an explosive don’t miss expose. Also Kitty starts her book tour in Texas the following week

HomePage: http://www.randomhouse.com/doubleday/thefamily/
Texas Monthly Author Series–Kitty Kelly: http://www.texasmonthly.com/authorseries
Amazon Books: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0385503245/qid=1094490587/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/104-3957129-3771132?v=glance&s=books

Related DU Threads:
Huge Bush “Real Dirt” Books to Hit Stores – The September Surprise
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=735192&mesg_id=735192
Kitty Kelly Dupes the Republican National Convention – GOP Hits Back!
Time, NewsWeek, and Other Magic Bush Lead Polls-Are GOP Rigged
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x744192

------------------------------
Beltway and Texas Republicans
Against Bush-Cheney ’04, Inc.
------------------------------
"Insider’s News”, Vol 1 - Kerry-Edwards Campaign Doing Well
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x748458
“Insider’s News” Vol 1.1 - Great Anti-Bush Sites
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x756409

[JCMach1]

152. Bush Lied is his statements to the FBI

http://www.thesyndrome.com/archives/00001081.htm

This is trailer trash stuff... but people read (and sometimes) believe it.

Is Neal Bush's EX lying?

This is a distractor issue, but it works for us this time.

[gospelized]

153. maybe this explains why he had watery eyes through his whole RNC speach.

he probably did a line before he came out.

[nomatrix]

154. Have you read her book Will?

I don't want to start playing the Michael Moore's a liar game (insert Kitty Kelley) because I thought it was disingenuous to review an opinion. I haven't read it, so I can't comment.
What I can comment on is Fortune Son by James Hatfield. I believe there was enough information in that book to have given pause to thinking people. I don't believe that is the target audience, do you?