Claims of "voter suppression" in Florida do not ring true

[ddeclue]

Every thing that might go wrong in the world is not due to some "vast right wing conspiracy" - if it rains on your softball game or the newspaper doesn't make it to the door step, please stop trying to blame Republicans for it. If we want to be believed we've got to stop blaming them for every little thing that goes wrong.

I have seen people here on DU recently claiming that long lines at the polls are "proof" of voter suppression.

Actually NO, long lines are proof of ever more effective campaign turnout machines, an increasing population, and a level of public dissatisfaction with the course of government that has not been seen since the late 1960's or early 1970's in this country.

Long lines just mean that the county supervisors of elections and the Florida Department of State's Division of Elections are doing their best with limited resources to meet an unprecedented demand by voters who actually want to avail themselves of their voting privileges this year.

In short, long lines are proof of OUR SUCCESS in turning out the vote, not Republican "success" in suppressing the vote.

In one such voter suppression claim here at DU, a DU voter in Palm Beach county Florida was saying that he "smelled voter suppression".

I ask:

Does this person even know who the Supervisor of Elections in Palm Beach County IS?

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/palmbeach/sfl-flpanderson1009pnoct09,0,1032829.story

Arthur Anderson, the Palm Beach Supervisor of elections who became the first African-American elected to a constitutional office in Palm Beach County, ended weeks of speculation about his health Wednesday by announcing that for months, and maybe years, he has been fighting a private battle with cancer.

Anderson, 67, will not resign and in written statements presented by his wife, Mildred Anderson, a retired ophthalmologist, said he will try to maintain daily contact with his leadership team as he undergoes treatment for the cancer, known as a multiple myeloma, that has stricken his bone marrow and blood.

"I have endeavored to bring our office into this modern era and make elections inclusive, fair and accurate," he said. "I will continue to do that, but at this point, I feel that I must inform my fellow citizens that I presently, literally, am in a fight for my life."

According to his wife, Anderson was diagnosed with cancer on Aug. 25, on the eve of an election that led to several weeks of strife and vote recounts at the supervisor's office. Anderson was also voted out of office in the election, and his challengers, Democrats Susan Bucher and Bob Margolis, face off on Nov. 4.
...
snip
...
The revelations came a day after County Commissioner Bob Kanjian criticized Anderson's repeated absences in recent weeks and questioned whether he should be replaced. Anderson, a Democrat, was elected four years ago, replacing Theresa LePore, who still is blamed by some for designing a confusing ballot that they say cost Al Gore the White House in 2000.


Now that you know that he is an African American Democrat and dying of cancer:

Who amongst us is really going to accuse the Palm Beach Supervisor of Elections of voter suppression?

For the benefit of DU'ers who don't live in Florida:

Elections in Florida are NOT run by Kurt S. Browning.

They are run by the individual SOE's of each of Florida's 67 counties. To run around claiming that Kurt can or is engaging in voter suppression in the operations of an individual county shows a basic ignorance of how the electoral process operates in Florida.

To be sure, the Republican led state legislature voted to reduce EV hours and voted to make ABV easier - which has the effect of encouraging Republicans to vote and discouraging Democrats since we tend to vote EV and they tend to vote ABV.

This is NOT Kurt Browning's fault however - talk to Marco Rubio if you want the real villain - nor is it Governor Crist's who actually did not one but TWO different things sure to make him unpopular with die hard Republicans in Florida since his 2006 election:

First, Crist ordered the re-enfranchisement of 115,000 former Florida felons. Prior to his order, felons in Florida had to appeal to the board of pardons and paroles to have their voting rights re-instated and it was rare that it happened. Florida was one of the few states remaining that permanently stripped felons of their voting rights. This happened to hurt minorities disproportionately and Crist's order certainly put a lot more Democrats than Republicans back on the voting rolls.

Second, Crist ordered the elimination of touch screen voting in Florida. The few machines that remain in use are for the use of the blind. The system being used in Florida now is the opti-scan system which is the same type that you used to take college tests with - fill in the circle with an ink pen. These ballots can easily be hand counted by humans and provide an actual evidentiary trail in the event a recount is required.

This is as a result of the Jennings debacle in 2006 and Crist AGAIN made die hard Republicans mad with this one as well.

I'm not saying we shouldn't try to replace Crist and Browning in 2010, I'm just saying that they are NOT Katherine Harris and John Ellis Bush and we should NOT keep fighting the LAST war(1998-2006), we should figure out how to fight the NEXT war (2006-2012) here in Florida.

If you really want to stop the problems that people like Rubio create, elect a DEMOCRATIC Florida State Legislature. We NEED to take back the legislature BEFORE 2013 redistricting or we will be gerrymandered out of much of our gains here in the state.

Regarding EARLY VOTING: We Democrats ought to just do the smart thing and register for ABV JUST like the Republicans after this election is over so that they can't really do that to us anymore. It is actually easier and cheaper for the state for everyone to vote ABV.

Oregon does vote by mail automatically for everyone.

ABV solves all the artificial logistical problems imposed by in-person voting of having to have X voting booths and W staffers on hand for an expected turnout of Y voters which inevitably end up being understaffed regardless of WHO is the SOE in a particular county simply because every successive cycle since I moved to Florida we end up breaking new records as more and more voters of both parties become registered and energized to vote by ever more efficient ground machines.

ABV also makes it much easier for DEMOCRATS to run campaigns. I have seen ABV applied so effectively by the Randolph, Soto, and Sasso campaigns at the state house level that it surprised the Republicans and led to upsets. I've also seen it applied extremely effectively by the Grayson for Congress campaign which is now on the verge of sending Republican Ric Keller packing in the Eighth Congressional District of Florida on November 4th.

THIS is the NEXT "war" that I'm talking about - learning how to effectively run a campaign where you get huge numbers of Democrats FIRST to register to vote, then to understand that they have to keep their registrations current when they move, and THEN to vote by absentee ballot (ABV) when they vote and FINALLY to get them to keep updating their contact information with us (the party) as they move about Florida. If we can learn to do this and learn how to run effective and efficient ABV campaigns we will be victorious in 2010 and 2012.

Florida's new law regarding ABV allows you to request a continuous ABV good through the November 2010 election and I would encourage you to register for one beginning November the 5th, the day after Obama is elected, since we are now too getting close to the election to go requesting one and expect to vote using it.

If you have a Florida ABV, vote it no later than Tuesday morning if you expect it to count.

Thanks,

Doug D.
Democratic Activist / GOTV/ABV Consultant
Orlando, FL/Ft. Lauderdale, FL

[Eric J in MN]

1. Providing such "limited resources" to the Board of Elections...

...that it takes hours to vote is a form of vote suppression.

Maybe legislators didn't think to themselves, let's make the Board of Elections budget small to make the lines long.

But they should provide enough money to open enough locations that people can vote within about an hour of arriving at their polling place.

[Orsino]

49. Yep.

The OP is right to point out our success in getting out the vote, but misses the elephant in the living room--that eight years after 2000, Florida still isn't prepared to accommodate a large turnout. Some of this really is the Republicans' fault, as we knew all along. Big turnouts are bad for the GOP, so policy is shaped to suppress turnout.

Even if this isn't by conscious design, it's still vote suppression.

[babylonsister]

2. Yes, it does ring true, though I didn't read your OP. The rethugs

passed a law after the 2000 election to shorten the days (of early voting) prior to elections, and they won't let it go. The turnout in FL has been phenomenal, longer days are needed.

My father is my proof. Ft. Meyers, a Democrat, and he wants to vote 'in person'. Shortened times to vote coupled with outrageous enthusiasm, and rain, led me to share, and him to wait. He WILL vote.

[ddeclue]

4. Yes I know that and if you read my post you would have seen as much.

It is not voter suppression unless you really want to dramatically expand the definition of it.

Ultimately we need to vote by mail in Florida and avoid the long lines altogether. They do it Oregon and works just fine there. You can do it here too but we Democrats are stuck in the past with EV and election day voting. We need to go ahead and adopt the future and ABV.

Doug D.

[Usrename]

45. Florida is Voter's Rights Act state.

If the lack of equipment results in the disenfranchisment of a protected class of people (ie, African-Americans) then it is a violation of the Act.

Intent has nothing to do with it at all. It's the effective result that is important, and that is what he Act prohibits.

[Coexist]

7. yes, but at least we now HAVE early voting.

big, big improvement.

[1corona4u]

11. We didn't even have early voting until 2004.

About Early Voting
The 2004 Legislature passed legislation which standardizes early voting throughout the state. Early voting is defined as "casting a ballot prior to Election Day at a location designated by the supervisor of elections and depositing the voted ballot in the tabulation system."

Under the new provisions, which went into effect July 1, 2004, All supervisors will begin conducting early voting in their main and branch offices 15 days before the election. In addition, supervisors may designate any city hall or public library as an early voting site; however, if so designated, these sites must be geographically located so that all voters in the county have an equal opportunity to cast a vote. Early voting will continue through two days prior to the election.

Early voting will be conducted at least 8 hours per day on each weekday during the early voting period and will be provided for 8 hours in the aggregate for each weekend during the period.

Voters who want to vote early should remember to bring a photo and signature identification with them.

http://pbcelections.org/content.aspx?id=25

[jwirr]

3. When too few machines are provided and lines take up to 6 hours

to vote (in Democratic areas only) then it is not just happenstance. They have done this for years now - not just this time. If you want to call it discouraging the voter from voting that is fine but it all adds up to the same thing: people who cannot vote. And you are right we need to learn to deal with this.

[ddeclue]

9. Do you KNOW what the situation is? or are you merely speculating?

Are you assuming that they have 6 extra machines and they are just refusing to set the machines up so that you have a long line? If so what is your evidence for that?

It sounds to me like you are simply speculating.

Quite a number of Florida's SOE's are DEMOCRATS who have NO interest in suppressing your Democratic vote. The Palm Beach SOE is. The Orange County SOE is.

So look for more reasonable explanations, one of which is an unprecedented turnout, instead of conspiracy theories which you simply can't prove.

Doug D.
Orlando, FL

[jwirr]

18. I was not speaking specifically about this site. In 2004 many areas

had too few machines. But I also read an article this morning here on DU that stated there were only 2 printers available and every voter needed to use them. They also mentioned that it was only in areas that are heavily Democratic. This was perceived to be the reason there were long lines. This should be fixed not ignored if it is true. Are you saying that there are plenty of machines and printers and that the long lines are not just in Democratic areas?

[ddeclue]

19. I'm saying that the SOE's are fielding all available equipment

and lines are long everywhere.

We are victims of our own success in registering voters and getting them out to the polls.

Doug D.

[jwirr]

24. I can understand that. I do wonder why this wasn't expected and

something done? We know that there are going to be huge turnouts all over the nation. Hopefully this is not going to happen everywhere. By the way I do not hate Florida. I just know that lack of vigilance lost us both 2000 and 2004. I do not want this to happen again anywhere.

[ddeclue]

33. Well..

The state legislature is generally NOT a collection of geniuses here in Florida...they are largely Republican and spend a lot of time either:

a) Passing sweetheart deals for their Republican developer friends.

or

b) Passing laws to prevent illegal alien gay people from marrying while allowing pre-schoolers to carry concealed weapons on school grounds. I exaggerate but the point is they try to pass symbolic show boater divide and conquer bills to show off to their constituents whom they presume to be right wingers like themselves.

The state legislature job here in Florida is technically part time (5 months a year) and pays a mere $32,000 salary + an allowance for office staff and office space rental. People who run for these jobs are generally either independently wealthy or so poor that this actually looks good to them or they have a second career that meshes well with their legislature job: attorney, real estate broker, developer, etc.

So it is not surprising that they failed to plan for a higher than usual turnout. In fact many of them are likely to be surprised by the turnout in their OWN election which votes them out of office this year.

Doug D.

[jwirr]

35. I hope they are soundly defeated. Serves them right.

[ddeclue]

36. I would be very happy to repeat 2006 and pick up another 8 in the State House

we'll have to wait and see though.

[1corona4u]

21. That is incorrect.

Our ballots are already printed. Just like the Colorado ballots. The only time a ballot needs to be printed, is if the voter is from another part of PBC, where they have different amendments/candidates on the ballot. I'd say maybe 1 in every 500 people may need that. Now, if there are people south of here, who are voting outside of their district, for whatever reason, then yes, it could cause a delay, but I think it's simply enormous voter turn out. That's it. As I said above, we have only had early voting since 2004. People have really decided to do this, and really, it is the first time for a lot of people.

You know, we still have election day. They are expecting 250K to vote early. That means it will take a lot of pressure off the polls on ED as well. BUT, on ED, there are so many polling places, you could practically throw a rock from one to another down here. It's never been more than a 10 minute deal for me in the past.

[ddeclue]

23. To give the guy a break..

they DO have to print EARLY VOTER ballots as the voter arrives because all counties have far fewer early voting locations than regular precincts. In Orange County where I voted I believe there are 10 vs. 262 precincts.

If the problem is printers, perhaps they can find a way to bring some more printers on line but these are not run of the mill business laser printers but rather custom machines designed specifically for this purpose.

My experience was that they needed more tabulators available. The bottleneck was that voters had to key in their precinct number themselves at the tabulator and many seemed to have problems with what seemed like a very simple task but on the other hand there are a lot of computer phobic/computer illiterate people still around and I'm at the far other end of the spectrum from them on computers.

Even so, I voted the first day of EV at 10AM and the whole process took about an hour for me.

Doug D.

[1corona4u]

25. You know, south of here too, part of the problem is, that the ballot...

is very hectic. Most of them have 3 languages on them, and reading the whole thing could take as long as 30 minutes per person. I've looked at them online, and they are very confusing. BUT, given that so many people don't speak, or read english(that's another story) they have to do it.

I think if you are outside of your district they have to print one up. But I don't think it's going to be every single voter either.

[1corona4u]

27. Incidently...

There are places online to check the wait times, before you go. Every county should have them. Here is Palm Beach and Dade;
Dade;
http://www.miamidade.gov/elections/wait-times.asp
Palm Beach;
http://www.pbcgov.com/newsroom/1008/10-24-08_early_voting.htm

[ddeclue]

31. Palm Beach is not Dade County...

but even in Orange County the ballots are at least BI-lingual and even we have substantial Haitian and Vietnamese communities for which there ought to be French and/or Vietnamese ballots available.

Perhaps the solution is different ballots per language but I think that is a very dangerous proposition because the day will come when the translation won't be right and someone will accuse someone else of doing it deliberately.

I DO believe however that ALL counties are printing EV's ON DEMAND because of the fact that they don't know a priori who will be walking up to vote since there are so many fewer EV polling stations than regular precinct polling stations. Perhaps they can make an educated guess that most of their voters will come from a particular area but this also invites the risk of accidentally handing someone the wrong pre-printed ballot to vote.

Here in Orange County, they take your driver's license, zip zap it and pull up your registration and use it to determine which ballot to print. It's all very nice and automated. The only break down in the system is at the end where you put the ballot into the machine and have to enter the precinct on a key pad.

One possible suggestion for improving the system would be to include a machine readable bar code on the ballot that contains the precinct number only so that the voter doesn't have to hand key it.

The reasoning against doing this however may be to prevent conspiracy theorists from claiming your reg ID and/or party affiliation has been bar coded into the ballot thus allowing it to be systematically excluded.

[1corona4u]

32. Well, I went by the PBC office today, and the line was moving...

Here are the pix, sorry they aren't that great....only had my cell....and it's older;

This was at 1:25 today;

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=7612181&mesg_id=7612181

[jwirr]

26. That is the good thing about early voting. I live in a very small precinct

in a rural area so I may be alone in the line when I stop by.

[1corona4u]

29. You'll be fine.

I've read mixed reviews on Miami Herald. Some good, some bad, some great. It really depends on the location. But it's not across the board, I can tell you that. One person, said in the heart of Miami, he waited about 35 minutes. That's pretty good if you ask me.

[MamaDem]

5. Thank you for posting this...

I know we have earned a terrible reputation here in FL but I also know a lot has been done to make improvements, even against a Republican governor and legislature.

Personally, my biggest complaint is with the change to the hours - making it very difficult to vote during the week. My experience voting yesterday - Dr. Phillips Library on Della Drive - was 30-40 minutes in the middle of the day. The biggest problem I had was getting in and out because of all the campaign folks lining the road. My parents and in-laws all use ABV and I may some day - I just like seeing my ballot going into the machine.

I agree we need to get Crist and Browing out and clean house. I really like Alex Sink and have high hopes for her future.

Again, as a fellow Floridian, thank you.

[1corona4u]

13. Yes, Crist has to go.

[Trajan]

6. IF someone is trying to commit election fraud ...

Then it would be proper to blame them ....

Your first paragraph is purely fallacious, as it describes your opinion about many things, but says nothing about the validity of the claims ...

[ddeclue]

12. The burden of proof is on the person claiming suppression not me..

I offer reasonable explanations for the situation of long lines. The other person has yet to prove that additional machines and staff to man them exist but are not being allowed to be fielded by a Democratic SOE in Palm Beach county (which he cited as his case).

I think I offered sufficient refutation in demonstrating that his SOE was a DEMOCRAT and an African American. Who is less likely to conduct voter suppression against Democrats?

Doug D.

[Trajan]

37. There is ample historical precedent for voter fraud to justify concern ...

And there are new tools in use that could easily simplify the process ...

Voting is too important to simply look away ....

I dont care who is running the system .... Trust is earnt ....

[ddeclue]

39. OK so you have just officially placed yourself in the ridiculous position

of saying a black Democrat in West Palm beach is seeking to suppress the votes of black democrats...

Does not pass the laugh test.

Doug D.

[Trajan]

41. Firstly: I am not occupying a 'ridiculous' position ...

So save your abusive ad hominems for your momma .... I made no assertion that I limited my comments to West Palm Beach ...

Please note how broad your initial comments begins: ALL inclusive to the State of Florida ...

Then: You switch from a generalized assertion to a specific assertion ... IE from state level to West Palm Beach, which I presume is County level ...

You committed a sweeping generalization (Dicto Simpliciter) by changing the frame of your argument from general to specific ...

Also note that I said 'Trust is earnt' ... I presume you 'trust' the Supervisor of Elections in West Palm Beach county .... Well isnt that wonderful ... BULLY for you .... So you TRUST that person ... On what basis is that trust formed ? ... He is black ? ... He is Democrat ? ... Wow: That is all you need then to form an opinion as to the absolute trustworthiness of a County Supervisor of Elections ....

I said NOTHING to violate that tenet ... He has earned your trust ....

But Mr. Trustworthy Supervisor of Elections in West Palm Beach is not the Supervisor of ANY other counties .... So his trustworthiness does NOT apply statewide ....

Hence: Your argument that this specific Supervisor of specific county proves the trustworthiness of the GENERAL STATEWIDE system is a ludicrous assertion ...

You know, Doug D. ? .... This is not the first time I have read your intentionally demeaning nonsense, where you present scenarios, like strawmen, so you can come back and try to slap down anyone who answers ....

Really: It is quite unbecoming, and frankly ... I wont stand for it .... And neither should any other DUer ....

Somebody must have dropped you on your head ....

[Usrename]

46. !

:applause:

[ddeclue]

50. In order for you to assume that there is voter suppression going on

you have to assume that such suppression is being conducted by the local SOE's.

I have presented a giant obstacle to that: Democratic SOE's.

You are the one making generalizations, assuming that the electoral process in Florida is homogeneously controlled by the FL SOS so don't talk to me about logic - yours is the flawed logic.

Doug D.

[1corona4u]

8. I appreciate your post, and you are right, but

you will never convince some of the rabid Florida haters on this board. Thing is, they don't just disrespect the Republicans in Florida, but all Floridians when they post shit the way they do. It's bad for all Dem's, and Indy's in Florida when they slam Florida.

Personally, I'll withhold judgment until after the election. Of course the haters will say it's too late then, but I have to trust that things will be made right this time. Despite some alleged corrupt republican efforts.

[crankychatter]

10. move along folks, nothing to see here - NT

[bluestateguy]

14. You raise a lot of sensible points

Florida, however, continues to scare the hell out of me. Republicans seem to win all the close elections there. Democrats only seem to win when they are way ahead, like Bill Nelson in 2006, or Bob Graham in 1998.

It also seems to me that Florida could be the only state where the GOP/McCain ground game matches or even exceeds Obama and the Democrats. I'd love for you to tell me I'm wrong if you know something that I don't.

[ddeclue]

17. Well the truth is that Obama is much bigger on the ground

than McCain from what I've seen in Central Florida or in South Florida.

The real battle ground is the "I-4" corridor which runs from Daytona through Orlando to Tampa/St. Pete/Clearwater.

Right now Obama looks set to win the I-4 corridor. Orlando has shifted its registration to the point that Democrats out number Republicans by 60,000 voters in Orange County. In Congressional District 8 which runs from Orlando to Apopka in Central Florida, the Grayson campaign has shifted registration there from minus 3 to plus 1 and is leading by 7 points in the polls. In Congressional District 24, polls have Suzanne Kosmas tied up with Tom Feeney.

In the Orlando area in the last 2 years we've had a string of victories in state house races that have surprised and upset the Republicans that will also help solidify our situation in the 2008 campaign: Scott Randolph in 2006 in House 36, Darren Soto in 2007 in House 49, and Tony Sasso in 2008 in House 32. These districts cover much of Orange, Osceola, and Brevard counties.

Look to be surprised by Obama in Florida this year. I am predicting a 4 to 5 point win for him.

Doug D.
Orlando, FL

[Malikshah]

15. As a Floridian, reading a post from any Dem Activist in Florida

Rings less true than Claims of "voter suppression" in Florida.

Wake up and smell the Stockholm Syndrome down here.

[ddeclue]

16. What do you possibly know about a state

where you obviously do NOT live?

I work on campaigns down here and I AM an expert on the subject. I'm sorry if you want to be a closed minded person who sits around AFTER elections and complains about losing them rather than an activist who gets involved and works smarter to win them BEFORE the election.

If you truly want to LEARN something about how to win elections, then open your mind and listen to the people who do it.

Doug D.

[Malikshah]

43. Reading is Fundamental. Look at my profile

Have to say, my concern about Florida voter suppression is increased a bit if an activist doesn't take the time to see to whom they are responding.

Been here since 1999. Suffered through the 2000 election in Palm Beach County, the McBride "Sacrificial Lamb" debacle, and the constant disenfranchisement of many voters throughout the state.

To win an election--it takes more than saying Yessir, Yessir, three bags full to the Dem "leadership" in this state (Furman? Please!)

[ddeclue]

57. Whatever you still don't know what you're talking about and

you're wasting everybody's time with your uninformed opinion.

[Malikshah]

61. "Whatever"?? What, are we regressing to the rebellious thirteen year retorts now?

Lord help the Democrats of Florida if this is an example of an "activist" at work.

I'm content to spread the good word on Obama and Biden, to provide information and places for answers, to work toward a solution and not accept the sorry state of politics in Florida.

Placing one's head in the sand is not a solution.

Wake up and smell the battle.

[1corona4u]

30. Maybe you should wait until you vote to say that.

:eyes:

[Malikshah]

44. ??? Sarcasm? Obtuseness?

I'm lucky in that my work schedule on election day gives me free time to stand in the polling station. Tried last week, but couldn't miss any more work standing in line.

Maybe it might be beneficial for folks to review the changing systems here in Florida--all led by the Republican Legislature and enabled by the "Dem Leadership"....

[progressiveforever]

20. Doug, while I agree it proves nothing, long lines in Ohio in 2004 (read on)

Long lines in Ohio in 2004 only occurred in heavily Democratic areas. A friend told me he waited nearly 4 hours to vote in 2004 and many walked off the line. THAT was voter suppression.

[ddeclue]

22. THAT was Ken Blackwell..THAT was Ohio..THAT was 2004..

we're talking about FL in 2008.

and by the way, the current OH SOS is a Democrat! so don't expect to see the Ken Blackwell effect in Ohio this year either. (Yay!)

We need to get Dems elected to SOE jobs and SOS (where elected) and state legislatures, and Governor (everywhere and especially where the SOS is appointed.) This is the best insurance against "voter supression"

[progressiveforever]

28. the SOS is great, and I hope you are right, but have you read the Conyers report?

The mechanisms are in place for it be stolen again.

I'm not suggesting you buy the book below necessarily, but the info in it is frightening---it is available in most libraries.

http://www.amazon.com/What-Went-Wrong-Ohio-Presidential/dp/089733535X/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_c

[ddeclue]

34. It certainly is possible to steal anything..

if you devote enough time effort reearch and money into it.

I don't believe that the 2004 elections were literally stolen - I believe that John Kerry gave up on Florida when he still had 45,000,000 in the bank AFTER election day and should have spent that money on an ad blitz.

I don't believe that the current election is about to be stolen or that Bush is about to otherwise conduct a coup or other October surprise either. The Republicans from Bush and McCain on down just seem to be too doom and gloom for that, they seem to understand that they've already lost.

The tipping point was the stock market fiasco - that is what did them in.

Doug D.

[autorank]

38. Redistricting is important but you feel the need to trash voting rights

So I don't really believe much of what you say. The Florida people will handle this just fine.

Just makes no sense - voting rights, no problem - IN FLORIDA!!! but lets redistrict.

Which part of the message is more important to you?

[ddeclue]

40. I am NOT trashing voting righs...I am talking about the REAL situation

in Florida and people running around calling every little problem "voter suppression" are making it more difficult to deal with the real issues and making it more difficult for Democrats to be taken seriously by independent voters.

Please don't try to mischaracterize what I said into a convenient version that suits your agenda and create false dichotomies that simply don't exist.

LEGAL Redistricting is by far a more serious threat to "stealing elections" than actual illegal actions by anyone in either party. The use of FREDS software in this state in 2003 to very meticulously redistrict the voting district lines so as to assure the maximum number of Republican seats in the State Legislature and in Congress hurt Democrats badly in 2004. Instead of voters choosing politicians, politicians chose voters.


Doug D.
Orlando,FL

[autorank]

42. Then you don't know the real situation. Fl 2000 stolen. Fl 2004 a huge mess, probably stolen

Crist is no saint. Remember his promise to re enfranchise felons? I wrote about that favorably.

And how many have been re-enfranchised - 700,000 or more Floridians, primarily minorities, cannot vote
because they have a felony on their record. Since this is straight from the "Redeemers" and KKK
in the post reconstruction period, it's appalling. Crist backed off his promise for automatic
restoration of voting rights and went for an approach that guaranteed delay.

700,000 disenfranchised voters. Doesn't that get your attention.

That's before you start on current registration purges and the computerized voting in place. Do you
know that in Florida, recounts cannot include a recount of any paper. So all those optical scans
with paper forms are useless. Same Republican machines with severely flawed optical scan machines
run by Republican friendly vendors with a Republican Secretary of State and Governor.

Every hear Crist or Browning apologize to the people Harris threw off the rolls or EVEN acknowledge
that mess? Nope. Ever hear Crist or Browning get the "not recount can recount optical scan forms"
rule reversed. Nope.

The only way Obama wins is with overwhelming turnout. Crist and Browing will march to the tune of
their party, period. Look at their record.

That's the reality.

[ddeclue]

51. The reality is that this is NOT 2000 OR 2004.

Harris and Bush are not in charge of this state anymore.

NO Crist is no saint but he is much better than Bush.

WHY exactly should Crist apologize for actions which he did not conduct? Blame belongs properly to those who conducted the improper behavior: Bush and Harris, not Crist who wasn't governor at the time.

The notion that the optical scan machines are "flawed" is just your assertion - not a fact.

The point is that it is entirely possible to hand count these ballots and if it comes down to it, any Florida law prohibiting such a recount wouldn't be worth the paper it is printed on if a judge (either Florida or Federal) decides that the people's right to vote is more valuable.

Obama will win Florida by 4 to 5%, not "overwhelming" but enough. Crist and Browning will NOT "steal" the election. I get so sick of hearing about these tin foil conspiracy theories.

Doug D.

[Essene]

47. Agreed. We must not "cry wolf" nor send the message that voting is going to be meaningless

This last point is most important.

The temptation to start screaming about how votes WONT be counted, how it's going to be stolen, etc... has to be confronted head-on and challenged. Cynicism is one thing and real concern is another... but allowing it to bubble up into PARALYSIS and inaction is a very serious danger.

Even if millions of people are forced to use provisional ballots which may not even be counted any time soon, the word must be nothing short of GO OUT AND VOTE.

[HughMoran]

48. Excellent write-up

I am shocked by some of the replies from people who clearly didn't read the O/P. Thank you for bringing the reality there as those of us who aren't from FL often have to rely on old information or biased posts that make understanding the sitation difficult.

[ecstatic]

52. 1) Not everyone can afford to stay in line for hours, 2) People

should not have to endure long lines to vote. I spent 90 minutes in line, which was fine, but not everyone can afford to take that much time off.

[ddeclue]

58. If it hurts when you hit your head against the wall STOP DOING IT...

Vote ABSENTEE.

There are no lines.

You don't have to worry about the hours.

You don't even have to leave your driveway.

It's too late this election but PLEASE go register for a continuing ABV from here on out so that you won't have anything to complain about in the future.

It's really simple: Vote BY MAIL.

Doug D.

[Laelth]

53. If you show me equally long lines at small, rural, Republican-voting precincts ...

If you show me equally long lines at small, rural, Republican-voting precincts, then I'll buy this argument. Otherwise, I'll assume that the Secretary of State intentionally gave too few machines to the heavily-populated, urban, Democratic-voting precincts in order to intentionally suppress the Democratic vote.

We have seen this tactic being used for years, and we don't like it. It's very insulting to be told to "shut up" about it. This is a form of voter suppression. It's intentional, and it is a Republican conspiracy. I will not "shut up" about it.

The United States is a LIBERAL Country.

:dem:

-Laelth

[ddeclue]

54. The SOS does not "give" machines..the local SOE PURCHASES them

with their budget which each county gets through local property taxes.

So much for your conspiracy.

Doug D.

[Laelth]

55. Do you have evidence of long lines in rural, Republican-voting counties?

Or are Democratic SOE's just too under-funded to purchase enough space and equipment to allow people to vote quickly while the Republican SOE's are funded well enough to have sufficient space and equipment? Is that what you're saying?

Or is it that Democratic County Commissioners are too stupid to fund their Boards of Elections appropriately while Republican County Commissioners fund their Boards of Elections adequately?

As I said, if there are long lines everywhere in Florida, I buy your argument. If not, there's a problem, and its probably the result of intentional acts by people who want to suppress the Democratic vote.

If it's not the Secretary of State, then who is it? Why don't the Democratic Counties have enough money to provide adequate space and machines to eliminate those long lines?

The United States is a LIBERAL Country.

:dem:

-Laelth

[ddeclue]

56. You can't claim a systematic plan to suppress votes when

there is NO system.

Each county is responsible for its own machines and has its own SOE.

If the larger counties have longer lines, it's not the fault of evil Republican operatives unless they just happen to sit on County Commissions. It doesn't follow that all the Republican county commissioners got together somewhere and hatched a conspiracy to not buy equipment in certain counties...

The reality is that larger counties will have longer lines for everything, not just voting. They have longer lines for the property appraiser's office, tax assessors office, driver's license office, etc.

These offices are not funded as well because larger counties have other needs they deem more pressing, usually law enforcement and road maintenance. That doesn't mean that any "conspiracy" exists however.

In any event, the solution to the problem is actually quite simple:

Vote ABSENTEE.

No lines, don't even have to leave home, costs less than driving and takes less time.

Doug D.

[Laelth]

60. Thanks for the tip on absentee voting.

Somehow I don't think that will solve the problem of long lines this year. As for myself, I early-voted here in Georgia.

I take it from your answer that you believe stupid, evil, or corrupt County Commissioners in the big counties (because they inadequately fund their Boards of Elections) are responsible for the long lines that just happen to plague the big, Democratic-voting counties. I have to wonder how many of those big counties have one or more Republican county commissioners, who, in the name of fiscal responsibility, advocated cutting the budgets of their Boards of Elections in such a way that some people will be disenfranchised. I don't know, of course. I don't have time to research the big Florida counties to find out. However, I do know that Republicans have been systematically suppressing Democratic voters, in other places around the country, for years. I simply can not believe this is an accident. If it were accidental, I would expect Republican and Democratic voters to suffer equally. Do they?

The United States is a LIBERAL Country.

:dem:

-Laelth

[Overseas]

59. Voter suppression is alive and well in Florida. Can just take advantage

of ordinary voter carelessness. That's the best kind of voter suppression. Utilize common oversights-- send out postcards to update registration with "Do Not Forward" orders and those undeliverables can be dropped. People who had ordered their mail forwarded but not reregistered to vote would be dropped.

One Secretary of State was going to send out update cards to foreclosed homes. Those would be undeliverable and could get rid of more people. There are far fewer Republicans in the USA. They need to depress Democratic turnout.

It is not a Vast Right Wing Conspiracy, it is a little bunch of tools broadly utilized to diminish Democratic vote counts.

Each little technique knocks out 2% of the votes, for example. If it is discovered, those who blame that technique-- i.e. robocalls misdirected people -- would be waved away with the comment that it involved too few voters to affect the outcome.

So I'm just saying that certainly people should be more careful, but that doesn't negate the fact that there is a range of voter suppression techniques being practiced in swing states.

Same as last times... www.stealingamericathemovie.com