If Bush Wins, Do We Say Goodbye to a Free America?

[Cyrano]

In my (not so humble) opinion, yes.

These people (Bush/Cheney/Ashcroft, et al.) have spent the last four years undermining our freedoms. And they have done it under a banner called 9/11.

Tuesday, Cheney said (and I'm paraphrasing his words/threat), "vote for us or the terrorists will kill you." No matter how low you think a Republican can go, they never cease to amaze and disgust.

If Bush is re-selected, my personal belief is that we'll never again see another free election in this country.

So, regardless, of what Kerry says or doesn't say or do, how in the world do we get a solid majority of the people in this country to wake up before they're enslaved or dead?

And if you think this posting is overwrought, show me where I'm wrong.

[StopTheMorans]

1. the damage to the SCOTUS alone is enough to make me

want to leave if * wins...

[Davis_X_Machina]

2. I don't know...

...but there's a line of bears in my woods with toilet paper in their paws, and yes, John Paul II is still Catholic.

[DBtv]

3. Not just a free America, but freedom anywhere in the world.

These NWO neo-fascists will not rest until their power elite cronies exert totalitarian control over all working people throughout the planet.

[Jo March]

4. Yes

I truly believe that we will be radically and totally screwed if * wins.

[GreatScott]

13. It does make a difference who wins--

The war in Iraq will go on--

[Jo March]

14. The war will go on but I believe that Kerry will develop an exit

strategy.

No one wants us out more than me. I can't stand seeing pictures of dead, dying, wounded or maimed babies anymore.

[GreatScott]

20. I'm with you 100%

We need to get completely out of Iraq-
But I think the "Exit Strategy" is as easy as loading up and coming home.
Unfortunately, the death of children and innocents will continue-
I'm also tired of seeing dead soldiers.

[Jo March]

23. I am sick of the killing and the dying

I am so weary of all of this death and destruction.

I can't support just pulling out because of the power vacuum that will create. We need to get out soon, though, because we can't afford to continue this war.

[Fed Up]

5. I'm stopping following news if that happens.

No need to check out the news on a daily basis, and continue to have a large fist fly out of the screen and sock me on the jaw.

I've done that for four, but not for 8.

If the majority of Americans want fascism, they'll get it.

Count me out.

[Township75]

6. So what are you going to do if he wins...

what if by cheating, and what if he is actually voted in by the people? Stay, go, do something, or some other option?

[Cyrano]

9. The real question is, what will the majority of the American public do...

after they finally realize what they've done?

[Township75]

25. From last time...

it appears they will do nothing. If he is actually elected by the majority, then it standst to reason they will do nothing.

I asked you this, because you are not the first person to bring up this matter. Yet, no one ever offers a solution or even a plan of action. I doubt protesting in the streets will really do much. Most people aren't going to care enough to join the struggle...and posting on DU and preaching to the choir doesn't do jack shit.

So, what's left?

[Cyrano]

31. Okay Township75, what's your answer?

Revolution? Guerrilla warfare? Heavy duty spam? Attack of the army of soccor moms? I sure as hell don't have an answer. So rather than being coy, exactly what is it that you propose we do if these fascist bastards retain control?

[mahina]

39. There are a lot of options.

If you can get a hold of 'a force more powerful' either in video or the book you can see what people have done since Ghandi to kick out facsists.

Read the short list by Gene Sharp, 198 methods of nonviolent action at http://www.aeinstein.org/organizations.php3?orgid=88&typeID=15&action=printContentTypeHome

one tiny piece:
THE METHODS OF POLITICAL NONCOOPERATION

Rejection of Authority
120. Withholding or withdrawal of allegiance
121. Refusal of public support
122. Literature and speeches advocating resistance

Group Representations
13. Deputations
14. Mock awards
15. Group lobbying
16. Picketing
17. Mock elections

Pressures on Individuals
31. "Haunting" officials
32. Taunting officials
33. Fraternization
34. Vigils

Drama and Music
35. Humorous skits and pranks
36. Performances of plays and music
37. Singing

Honoring the Dead
43. Political mourning
44. Mock funerals
45. Demonstrative funerals
46. Homage at burial places

Citizens? Noncooperation with Government

125. Boycott of government employment and positions
126. Boycott of government depts., agencies, and other bodies
127. Withdrawal from government educational institutions
128. Boycott of government-supported organizations
129. Refusal of assistance to enforcement agents
130. Removal of own signs and placemarks
131. Refusal to accept appointed officials
132. Refusal to dissolve existing institutions


Physical Intervention
162. Sit-in
163. Stand-in
164. Ride-in
165. Wade-in
166. Mill-in
167. Pray-in
168. Nonviolent raids
169. Nonviolent air raids
170. Nonviolent invasion
171. Nonviolent interjection
172. Nonviolent obstruction
173. Nonviolent occupation


It has worked around the world, with low casualty and great effectiveness.

[Cyrano]

44. Dear Mahina

Great ideas and great research. These tactics worked against the British Empire and in South Africa. Unfortunately, I can't bring myself to believe that such actions will work against a government answerable to absolutely no one.

There is currently no power in the world that can challenge or threaten our modern day fascists in power. They don't care what anyone says or does, as proven by the last election. They didn't even win it, nonetheless, they proceeded to stand the world on it's head, regardless of public opinion.

If they win, it's going to take the rest of the world to join together and overthrow them, and that may take decades. In the meantime, I have little doubt that these fanatics will use our nuclear arsenal to hold power, regardless of how many must die and regardless of the survivability or viablility of life on this planet.

Overwrought? Okay, show me where I'm wrong.

[mahina]

49. And they worked in Czekoslovakia, and Norway, and Poland, and

Chile, and the Phillipines.
Neither of us can say what will happen for sure, unless we give up now. In that event then I guess you would be right, but why would anyone let such a travesty occur?
You have the power.
Unless you dont' want it.
Then * will be more than happy, elated, with your choice.

[Stuckinthebush]

10. Go

Staying in fighting may no longer be an option.

[Township75]

26. I have pondered that a lot lately....

if I hate this regime so much, I certainly do not want to support it.

And even if I don't support it with my vote, I will be supporting it because my tax dollars will fund it and the wars it fights.

Leaving would fix that.

[Dangerman]

19. If Bush if elected "fair and square"

If Bush IS elected fair and square by the people, you should thank fascist Fox News, Rupert "Joseph Goebbels" Murdoch, CNN and MSNBC for brainwashing almost half of the nation!

[Township75]

27. What good would that do?

They would probably just say "your welcome."

[barb162]

7. almost

but I think it will take a bit longer, like 10 years. I think we can say goodbye also to a prosperous America and our way of life. He will run this country into a serious depression and I don't think we will be able to recover from it. Too much technology, jobs being sent elsewhere, etc.

[Cyrano]

15. I believe that jobs and technology will be the least of our problems

As despressing as it sounds, I foresee a country full of Abu Ghraibs. After all, we're talking about a corrupt, administration obsessed with secrecy, (and a possible pschotic who claims God talks to him) in full and total control of all the levers of power. So tell me -- what do you do then?

[barb162]

47. have to move away from the US

before it happens...I see no other solution. It is truly depressing on many levels.

[sniffa]

8. say goodbye with a fLaming moe

[ClintonTyree]

11. I'll just say goodbye to America..............................

period. I can't and won't live in this country if these madmen are allowed a lame duck Presidency. The damage by these people will be catastrophic and irreversible. I'm outa' here.

[wildflower]

54. The problem with leaving is...is there really anywhere to go?

If America is the #1 superpower and bent on "spreading democracy" through the world, if nuclear power profliferates, if the environment deteriorates, and so on...

-wildflower

ON EDIT: Sorry for the bleak message; I am trying to be optimistic, I really am. (While being realistic.) I agree with others that morale is important. That's why I posted the below; maybe we can keep adding to it and passing it around?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=778182&mesg_id=778489

[BeHereNow]

12. Here Cyrano- good to have options!

http://www.escapeartist.com
The best site on the web for people who are
paying attention and comprehending what
is coming...The future of the world is quite
irreversible at this point, so the question becomes,
how/where and among whom do you want
spend the rest of your days?
Looking around at the hatefest here,
the rising brownshirts and X-tians, I know for
me, it will be somewhere else.
America as we have known it, is OVER.
BHN

[G_j]

17. this subject seems to be in the air today n/t

[Cyrano]

18. "Fahrenheit 451?" Which book would you be?

BeHereNow, this country has the most powerful arsenal of destruction in the history of the world. If BushCo wins again, we're going to be badly in need of another planet.

On edit: For those who haven't read or seen Ray Bradbury's "Fahrenheit 451" give it a try. (Clue fahrenheit 451 is the temperature at which books burn.)

[laruemtt]

43. we're looking very seriously at belize.

pretty sure there'll be no freepers there as i'm sure it's too wild for their tastes. we were going to st. lucia but this hurricane season has made us think twice.

btw, i love that escape artist site - visit it most nights.

[MoonRiver]

53. Denmark

We've been there, know folks there, and it is the perfect place for progressives.

[Dangerman]

16. Hell Yeah!

Goodbye America, hello Soviet Russia (at best) or Nazi Germany (at worst)

[G_j]

21. IMPEACH

As much as long shot as that is, I think that many will feel it is their sacred duty to pursue justice for these criminals.
Regardless of support from Congress there will be people screaming it from the mountain tops.

[AngryOldDem]

22. I've been asking this since the selection....

>>>So, regardless, of what Kerry says or doesn't say or do, how in the world do we get a solid majority of the people in this country to wake up before they're enslaved or dead?<<<

I'm coming to the very sad and cynical conclusion that nothing will get through to these people. As a nation, we are so woefully ignorant of history (world's and our own) that we cannot see or appreciate the warning signs that we are most likely headed toward the United States equivalent of the Third Reich. This administration knows how to play to fear and patriotic propaganda, which works beautifully with a largely stupid public that reacts to buzzwords and bombast as Pavlov's dog reacted to the bell.

I see these people waking up to a much different America in 2008. Then they'll be wondering just what the hell happened, and people like us will be there to say, "I told you so." But we'll take no pleasure in doing that, because we will be in the same morass as they. Only difference is, we saw it coming.

[DaveSZ]

24. Ashcorft has been itching to build concentration camps

for people like us.

[G_j]

37. Got your tinfoil hat?

http://liberty.hypermart.net/voices/Concentration_camps_FEMA_REX-84.htm

FEMA's Plan for Mass Destruction Attacks: Of Course It's True August 7, 2002 By Christopher Ruddy Let me state for the record that FEMA is moving ahead with plans to create temporary cities that could handle millions of Americans after mass destruction attacks on U.S. cities. Though the agency has denied the program to some of our readers and has made misleading claims about NewsMax's original story to members of the press, the basic facts of the story remain unchallenged.

In early July, NewsMax first reported in our e-mail news service, Insider Report, the story "FEMA Preparing for Mass Destruction Attacks on Cities," revealing that FEMA was seeking bids from three major real estate and/or engineering firms to help prepare for the creation of the emergency cities, using tents and trailers if an urban area is attacked by NBC (nuclear, chemical or biological) weapons. The bid is not only a matter of public record, it also is available on the federal governments Web site.

<snip>

-----
Also Google Rex84 :tinfoilhat:

[Cyrano]

29. AngryOldDem. You're more optimistic than I am.

You see people waking up in 2008 and wondering what happened. I, for one, see ghost images of gas chambers that look like shower rooms, and people wondering why their "Leader selected by God" is letting this happen.

To repeat: Overwrought?

Maybe. But I sure hope one of his backers isn't standing next to me in that "shower room" asking what's happening to them. My nightmare scenerio is that my final words will be, "Hey, you voted for him."

[mahina]

28. step away from the koolaid

Here's the way I see it. For at least two decades we have been extremely dishonest, sowing destructin in South America, Asia, Indonesia, all over. Supporting facist governments, sending money for weapons and even sending weapons to the brutal dictators of the world, keeping their people down. My neighbors said, "that doesn't affect me, I still have my freedom. "

But take a look at those places. The people are resisting. THey are filled with hope. The poorest of us have more power than those folks could ever hope for.

You all on the other hand have already given up-

Come on people. We can stop the whole machine by just reaching out to each other and withdrawing support. They would love nothing better than for you to think there's nothing you can do.

Check out Gene Sharps "The Anti-Coup" at your library, or download free at http://www.aeinstein.org/organizations.php3?action=printContentItem&orgid=88&typeID=16&itemID=57&User_Session=ee725a9dc49d89e7fddea7781ee8c582

I won't give up on you.
aloha

[mahina]

30. They are tied for pete's sake.....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x813154

raise a ruckus! Neighborhood movie night, showing Outfoxed, Counting on Democracy, A Force More Powerful etc etc etc

Decorate your yard for Halloween with scary Bushisms and Ashcroft peeping over the bushes...I'm going to be sporting a lovely prisoner suit with a bush mask, inspired by the great American I saw on CSPAN during the NYC protests. And you?
:)

[DaveSZ]

32. How 'bout

Get the fuck out there and volunteer if you don't want to be in a concentration camp anytime soon.

[mahina]

33. agreed, am doing so

[AngryOldDem]

48. Me Too

Some days that is what keeps me from giving up altogether.

[mahina]

51. Thank you!!

in case nobody has thanked you lately
:)
that's how we'll retire the *

[mahina]

35. Actually I never stopped volunteering,

just changed focus from Gore to anti* then NION then Dean then Kerry.
while raising the fam, and work, and school, but thanks for the reminder that the real action is out there.
aloha

[Slit Skirt]

34. freedom is already dying

4 more years of Asscroft, bush, wolfie, and all the rest will result in tyranny and fascism....

[Dem Agog]

36. I think you may be right...

I'm already positioning myself quite willingly far away from DC with a recent move because I don't want to be anywhere near the political center of the US Nazi state if W.rong steals this election.

[Cyrano]

38. southpaw4kerry, welcome to DU, however,

if the fascists win in Nov., you might want some plausible deniability that you were ever associated with "left wing, commie, pinko, traitorous, wimpy, girly-men" like those of us here on DU.

[Dem Agog]

41. Heheheh...

I come from a long line of "left wing, commie, pinko, traitorous, wimpy, girly-men"... My father would disown me if I were a * supporter! And thanks for the welcome - new ID though I was around previously under the boring pseudonym - 22181.

[genius]

40. Yep. It will be pretty much over for our country.

[scared]

42. Yes.

[against all enemies]

45. Too late, it's already gone.

Will the history books document the end of America or just white wash it like everything else.

[Cyrano]

46. If they win, there won't be any history books.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

50. Supreme Court

The damage from his appointees would go on for years and roll us back decades.

:cry:

[drdigi420]

52. that happened in the 1930s

when the federal government illegally outlawed hemp to protect the textile and petro-chem companies