this is incredibly important ...they want to drug our kids

[Slit Skirt]

PLEASE SIGN THIS PETITION.....rejecting a mandate for mental health screening for our children...

these assholes can't keep their hands off of anything....they're not touching my kids....they just want to drug them....

WE HAVE TO FIGHT BACK
http://www.ablechild.org/declaration%20of%20refusal.aspx

The following declaration is a vigorous response to and rejection of the recommendations of the President's New Freedom Commission on mental health policy in the United States, a health policy that would mandate virtually universal mental health screening, including the 52 million children and 6 million adults in the public schools

[judge_smales]

1. I'm not sure that

wide-scope mental health screening is a bad idea.

What makes you think that the programs sole aim is drug administration?

[PROGRESSIVE1]

2. They can diagnose you with a false illness in order to...

give you drugs to make the Drug Companies wealthier.

This is Fascism at it's worse.

I don't believe in Psychiatry and the myth of using drugs to control people. It's Fascism!!!

[judge_smales]

5. Uhhhhhhhh

OK.

[el_gato]

9. Always trust the multi-national pharmaceutical corporations

They just love your children so much.

:eyes:


On a more serious note, I would never let someone
start shoving pills down my childs throat as a result
of government edict.

[judge_smales]

12. Niether would I

but rejecting any type of screening for any at-risk population out of fear of some shadowy cabal of corporations seems more than just slightly over-reactive.

[el_gato]

17. Mandatory screening of all kids? So much for freedom.

You have got to be kidding me. Child healthcare should be left to the parents not some program sponsored by multinational corporations.

[judge_smales]

21. But there is another side to this.

There are alredy numerous screenings for various diseases done through schools vor a variety of reasons, and I think this one is pretty valuble. There are a substantial number of children suffering from mental illness that go either undiagnosed or ignored for long enough pereiods that tratment becomes vastly more difficult than it would have been had the condition come to been diagnosed sooner. Additionally, like many contagious diseses that are screened for, these illnesses have a strong potential to affect other kids via the ill childs behaviour. Would you want your kid in school with someone who has a high potential for violene becasue of an undiagnosed mental disorder? I wouldn't.

[Slit Skirt]

27. yeah the other side of this...

columbine killings....guess what....one of the two was on drugs..anti depressants.....there are side effects of these drugs that NO ONE is paying attention to. they're handing em out like candy

[DebJ]

36. You got that right. The wrong meds or meds not needed is

very very dangerous.....to society as well as the child. I know; I've had to live through that personally.

[el_gato]

28. Total bullshit

If I accepted your scenario it would make me wonder how I ever made it through grade school. I swear, I wish I had a dime for every time I have heard people pull the old "WILL SOMEBODY PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN" crap out of their ass.

Mandatory drugging of our kids is total bullshit any way you look at it.

Why don't you take a look around at the world we are living in and ask yourself what the real problem is? People are feeling depressed for a reason and those reasons are not internal.

[skygazer]

42. Totally different

When you screen for those illnesses, you are looking for certain organic markers - in blood or tissue or whatever. Mental health screening is more subjective. There are certain symptoms that INDICATE that one MAY be depressive, or bi-polor or whatever but most mental health diagnoses are not cut and dried like screening for Tuberculosis or some such thing.

Right now there are probably many children who are taking Ritalin, for example, who don't neccessarily need it. There is no sure fire way to diagnose these things and some people who just have rowdy kids may see their kid as ADHD (apologies to anyone dealing with this - but I think you know what I mean). Or the school may see them that way. I know people whose kids are just very bright and bored in class who have been told the kid needed to be screened for it.

There are not all that many psychological drugs that are approved or recommended for children - over diagnosis of these things will mean more children on drugs they don't need. No, we don't need this. It is very Big Brother.

[judge_smales]

15. Still doesn't answer the questions

What makes you think that the programs sole aim is drug administration?

[el_gato]

18. What makes you think it isn't?

Seriously, they have been trying to get kids on all kinds
of drugs at an early age. It makes you wondor how civilization
made it this far without the use of psychoactive drugs on our children.

At risk population my ass. If our schools were less like prisons and
more like a place for children to discover the wondors of our world
perhaps there wouldn't be much of an issue. But besides that
why don't you prove your claims that this is an "at risk" population.

I don't buy into your basic assumptions that there is something
internally wrong with our children. As well, I don't buy into your
tacit view that drugs are the way to deal with the world around you.

[judge_smales]

26. But

neither " there is something internally wrong with our children" nor "drugs are the way to deal with the world around you" are basic assumptions of mine.

Having kids w/ undiagnosed mental problems in a school is both disruptive and dangerous to other children (Does the name Columbine ring a bell?) is one of them.

Additionally, nobody wonders "how civilization
made it this far without the use of psychoactive drugs on our children" in the same way that nobody wonders how civilization survived without pennicillain. (Or should that be denied children also becasue some scary corporation sells it?)

[el_gato]

33. Your example was just destroyed in one of the posts above

As someone pointed out one of the columbine shooters was on these drugs.

DOH!

Some scary corporation did not invent penecillin, now did they?

[skygazer]

45. The assumption that mental illness

causes violent behavior is sketchy at best. Most common mental illnesses elicit violence only towards the person themself in the form of suicide. Once again, you are confusing mental illnesses with physical illnesses that have easily diagnosed, organic roots that can be screened. Pneumonia can be diagnosed with a chest x-ray. Mental illness is not so easy to spot and is very easy to mis-diagnose. Particularly when the person has never been seen by the screener before.

[Slit Skirt]

37. damn .....you're good!

[Slit Skirt]

3. too many kids on ritlin (spelling) as it is

now they're talking prosaic.......for KIDS

the connection is the pharmaceutical companies...this is a bush program...

think of the long term implications....you send your kid to school...they say he needs to be on drugs.....what criteria are you basing this on....parents are very opposed to this....

they have even arrested some parents on negligence for refusing to administer these drugs....

would you want the government telling you that you have to take drugs?

[judge_smales]

16. Why wouldn't kids take prozac

if it's making their lives better??

[el_gato]

20. Who says these drugs are making anybody's life better?

The big pharmaceutical corps? Yeah, let's put our trust in them.
Afterall, they just love our kids. :eyes:

[judge_smales]

31. Don't have kids

do you?

[skygazer]

46. I have three kids

And have suffered most of my life with bi-polar illness. It drives me nuts to hear uninformed idiots like yourself talk about diagnosing mental illness as if it's no different than diagnosing an ear infection.

For Pete's sake, if you want to argue an issue, learn about it first!

[DebJ]

41. love our kids so much they would let them die rather than

get drugs they need because of sky-high non-competitive prices.

ONE of my son's meds is $500 a month. Just ONE. He takes four.

[DebJ]

38. ever known kids on prozac? I have worked with three and my

son was put on that shit for awhile.
The first young girl tried to describe to me what happened inside her head while she was on it. She couldn't even put words to it; just moved her hands frenetically about her head. If you could just visualize this poor child, you'd be horrified. I was.

Similar problems for a few other young people I worked with (in restaurants).

My son HAS to have medication, but Prozac really screwed him up, very very badly. Got him off it right away.

[Slit Skirt]

40. sounds like you don't have children

nor the information about these drugs....they are dangerous.....

and on top of this ...after the pilot program...they want to move on to people like you....ALL ADULTS IN THE COUNTRY!!!!

so .........YOU GO TAKE YOUR TEST...AND THEY FIND THAT YOUR SLIGHTLY DEPRESSED OR BETTER YET...HAVE A SLIGHT MENTAL DYSFUNCTION OF SOME SORT (and really who isn't a little dysfunctional)....they send your medical report to the government (required by law) and now that cush job you've been wanting or that house you wanted to buy is denied you because.....you seem to have been diagnosed with mental illness and are taking drugs.......

[tridim]

4. Because the big pharmaceutical companies

are in Bush's back pocket and vice-versa?

[CornField]

6. More info from Intervention Magazine

Explains this program fairly well, I think.

http://www.interventionmag.com/cms/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=830

[DebJ]

39. again, very scary. 1984. Everyone feels soooo good all the

time.

[seabeyond]

8. i have watched 5 years of embracing these drugs

and giving out like candy. a child doesnt sit in the chair and be quiet appropriately, he needs a drug. my son, oh he is out there. not hyper or impulsive, but so obtuse and distractable. wanted to drug him first three years of his school years. NO, i said. he wont change, it is him, so we have to help him with the tools to work on and recognize this weakness of himself. not drug him. also a brilliant child. what would i be taking away from him drugging him. he takes work and patience, but hey, i am the parent, my job.

no no no...........i am passionate

a governemnt that allows a pharmacutical company to have control over our children for profit and you wouldnt assume abuse. teacher get mellow nonchallenging kids, you dont think the abuse of the easy way out isnt obvious,.

no no no

no one decides for my child. tis my job

[Union Thug]

11. Mental health 'professionals' can be used in a variety of

nefarious ways.

They can, for example, march into your home for an immediate 'assessment' and lock you away for up to three days without recourse while they assess your 'condition' (at least here is washington).

Don't believe me? Ask my cunning ex-wife about her manipulation of the system to have people removed from their own home, NOT by the police, but by the mental health patrol.

I lost all respect for mental health workers (I used to work in the system, btw) after seeing them in action. I can't imagine that it would be any better under lil george's plan.

[DebJ]

7. Can someone verify that there really is such a policy or

recommendation for one? This thread keeps showing up in here, and I thought it was discredited as garbage. Even the freepers freaked out over it, with numerous quotes from them posted here.

If this is valid, I will sign and get others to sign. I have an adult child with serious bipolar disorder, and I think this policy is VERY dangerous. The head psychiatrist for our county school system in Maryland (Howard County) kept trying to force me to give my son Ritalin. I refused. Good thing, it turns out, because Ritalin has good potential to be disastrous for many with BP. We did get him on a very helpful drug regimen within a year or two, and he has been on one every since, and literally would die without it, but NOT RITALIN. Parents and private psychiatrists need to be making these decisions, not the schools.
Wouldn't an alternative be for local school boards to be able to expel students who a)are constantly seriously disruptive and b)refuse to seek professional health? (Does anyone ever get expelled anymore short of actually shooting someone???) My husband is a special education teacher; I see both sides of the issues.

[DebJ]

10. PS-My son LITERALLY would die without his medications.

Psychiatry is NOT crap; it is medicine. My son has a neurobiological brain disorder, seizures in the brain in the region of emotional control, chemical imbalances there. He can not talk nor think himself out of his condition. I also have a completely normal daughter, who excelled in all areas of her life: personal relationships, her dual college degree, and her job in the government (Promoted 2-3 times a year in her first three years). It's not the child rearing, it is the child's brain. Funny how so many people refuse to accept that the brain can have medical/chemical/neurological dysfunctions just like a pancreas can function in a diabetic mode, or the heart or kidneys fail. But for some reason, people think it is impossible for the brain, an organ, to have MEDICAL issues. Somehow the brain is believed by them to be immune from disease in the emotional control areas. They can accept the concept of being paralyzed, or blind, or have other problems because of brain damage. And they 'believe in' mental retardation.
But this one area of the brain, they say, can NEVER have medical issues...it's all b.s. and lack of self control or whatever.
If you are not one of these people, then I apologize for the rant.
But if not, please provide me medical evidence that this one area of our bodies, and only this one area, can not suffer from chemical and neurological disorders requiring medical intervention.
This is what psychiatrists do: MEDICAL intervention. The talking stuff is psychology, not psychiatry.

[derby378]

13. Agreed

I won't die if I stop taking my medication, but let's just say that things would be a bit harder for me in some respects.

That said, however, prescribing these drugs should be left to doctors, not government paper-pushers.

[DebJ]

14. oops this was addressed to Progressive 1's response

[Slit Skirt]

19. that's fine for you....

but we are talking here of a program nationwide...looking for illnesses that aren't there...excuses to drug em up to keep them quiet...think of the potential for abuse....this is NOT A GOOD IDEA

[DebJ]

24. see my post #7. I don't like such a program. But saying

psychiatrists are never needed as did Progressive 1 is something else.

[el_gato]

22. So one child's case is a reason to accept mass drugging of our kids

And then you think it would be acceptable for the government to mandate that you shove pills down your kids throat?

No thanks!!!

[DebJ]

25. again, see my post #7.

[judge_smales]

34. Can you point out to me

where the forced mass-drugging of kids in mandated, exactly?

[el_gato]

35. How is this "program" supposed to work?

It sure sounds like the screening is mandatory. What then?

[Slit Skirt]

48. yes...they want it mandatory

and then if you don't give your kids the drugs that they recommend you can be charged with negligence....

then once they get our kids on the program...they are moving to the adult population...

[jrieth50]

53. Mandatory is the problem

The fact that they would even consider these tests as mandatory is really the problem. Look at the children today. There are some that need them, but obviously the mental health community is not doing very well in the diagnosis area as many experts believe they are grossly over-prescribed.

If they want to put in a program where students can voluntarily see a doctor, or identify common traits that might put kids in a high-risk category and follow that up with a parent teacher conference and an educated decision to try out such a program than so be it. But forced mental health exams is a bad idea. Like I said, there are way too many of these docs just doling out pills.

[Slit Skirt]

23. THEY ARE ALREADY DOING THE PILOT IN ILLINOIS

HERE IS THE LINK

http://www.ablechild.org/declaration%20of%20refusal.aspx

Ron Paul is trying to yank the program right now.

[DebJ]

29. wow. scary.

[AspenRose]

30. Homeschooling...not just for wacko faux christians anymore

May be a way to avoid...(?)

:scared:

[Slit Skirt]

32. it may be the only way

but please sign the petition...they are taking it to washington and it states we will not put up with this
http://www.ablechild.org/declaration%20of%20refusal.aspxl

[DebJ]

43. link says page can not be found or has been removed

[Slit Skirt]

47. try this

http://www.ablechild.org/

look to the right of the page for the link
thank you!

[Union Thug]

44. Pump 'em full of Corporate drugs, but throw 'em in the justice system..

for smoking pot.

HYPOCRITES.

[skygazer]

49. Let me tell you a story

In the 1920's, this country went through a flirtation with eugenics (the Nazis learned much about the subject from American groups, as a matter of fact). They began a mandatory testing program for children, particularly poor and orphan children and wards of the state. The idea was to get "undesirables" off the street and keep them from breeding.

The children were tested for IQ, using tests that have since been discredited and that failed to take into account the fact that many of these children had never attended school regularly or learned to read very well. Children with "low" numbers were sent to state run schools where many of them lived their entire lives. Some were sterilized and they were trained in jobs to help run the schools. They were given almost no education and they were treated very badly. Many of them were not retarded in any way.

One of the early proponents of the eugenics movement was Prescott Bush. Think it can't happen again? Let 'em test the kids and let's see.

[Slit Skirt]

50. that is the way it will be......another 4 yrs.

that is just too scary....sob's
they're not getting my kids

[murray hill farm]

51. The important question to ask is..Why?

Why screen all children to catch "signs" of possible mental illness? What is the reason for this? At present, there is not anywhere in the usa adequate and available treatment for mental illness ..anywhere..small town or large city. There have never been adequate funds from federal or state to provide mental health services. This is a social control screening..and its purpose is to identify children who may pose a later problem to society. The purpose is to identify and to medicate..and to do it as early as possible. I have spent my life as a teacher, a govt mental health counselor..and later as a private practice psychotherapist...and this is the purpose of the screening. The purpose is that of social control...control of the masses.

[Slit Skirt]

52. well said ......and I thank you!

[AntiCoup2K4]

54. Even without Bush and his nazis, I never understood this need to drug kids

I was put on ritalin when I was 5 or 6 for being "hyperactive". Terms like "ADD" hadn't been invented yet. If I wasn't hyper before the drugs, I sure as hell was afterwards. Hazards of feeding a kid speed, I guess. The long term effects were far worse, I'm afraid. Screwed up metabolism for life and sleep disorders which I can't seem to get rid of over 30 years later. If I knew who to sue for this, I would have done so years ago.

[OneBlueSky]

55. this IS incredibly important, and . . .

yes, the provision of specific therapies for various conditions is included in the mandate . . . there have been several previous discussions of this matter which contain lots of good info:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2185460

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2238503

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2209463

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1813285

this is very real, folks . . . and a huge step on the road to a fascist dictatorship . . . it MUST be stopped . . .