FOX News says CBS forged documents on 60 Minutes last night.....

[kentuck]

On the Brit Hume show, Fred Barnes was his usual animated silly self, pointing out that the fonts were not ones that were available to use at that time in the early Seventies. Morton Kondracke was more noncommittal about it than Barnes and thought the whole issue was unworthy. Then Jeff ?? (Birnbaum) said if they proved these were "fake", then it was all over. Then Brit ended the conversation by saying, "But that's an IF..."

I wonder how much CBS appreciates this??

[democrat in Tallahassee]

1. how did the white house get copies of the "forged" documents?

[prodigal_green]

6. The chimps lie about everything

they can't keep track anymore.

[Frodo]

26. CBS apparently gave the copies a day before running the story

for comment.

[cthrumatrix]

2. they don't even pretend to be WH whores anymore...they just lie

and keep shoveling the lies... losers

Are any of thier familes serving in Iraq..? Assholes

[Fridays Child]

3. If true, it's the WH that forged them--a classic Rove operation.

Set it up, feed it to CBS, then give it to Fox to knock down. All further questions regarding B*sh's Guard service will now be regarded with utter disdain.

[kentuck]

19. I think a more likely scenario is that CBS did not give the WH all ...

the documents they had. It could be there are more documents to come?
just a thought.

[Carni]

51. You got it!

If these Docs are forged that is exactly what they did--

Now can you imagine not using a circa 1972 or 73 typewriter if you were going to mastermind this scheme and contrive documents?

This is classic Rove.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

4. This will make CBS prove their authenticity

BTW..why would the White House release faked docs demonstrating the same thing...

[wtmusic]

10. yep

they are painted into a corner. More publicity just highlights the contradiction.

[Walt Starr]

21. See post 20

It's been debunked unless George's military documents that he released were also fakes.

Same proportional superscripted font was used on Bush's AF7.

[Frodo]

27. Hey! Great find!

Where is that?

[aquart]

48. Excellent.

[Carni]

54. Oh good I wasn't aware of that

So in other words Drudge is playing damage control with a bunch of bullshit about fonts on his site?

My God who can keep track at this point :(

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

66. Have I told you lately that you rock?

Send that to Drudge and tell him to cram it up his poop chute.

[Maple]

5. Freeper Follies

that Drudge promoted.

The WH issued the same documents, faxed from CBS, because they knew they were true.

They certainly wouldn't have issued them, if there was the slightest chance they weren't true.

[girl gone mad]

65. You would think..

that they would get tired of being wrong all of the time.

[wtmusic]

7. A Fox/CBS network war?

Bring 'em on!!!

[henslee]

16. Divide and Conquer. One way to break up media filter.

[candy331]

60. CBS get come ca hones and slap faux into cyberspace, time

to fight for America, Dan Rather get some Cronkite backbone.

[GingerSnaps]

8. I guess they forged his time slips as well

Do you remember a while back when they produced a time slip which seemed kind of odd.

[depakid]

9. If Kerry does get elected

The he needs to get his FCC to make rules holding FOX and ALL of the other accountible- serious rules with serious consequences- like revoking licenses....

[Ducks In A Row]

11. it's sad that fox is getting the talking points so late

it's that, or people are going so smart to get the research out quickly so that the talking points are old before the WH makes the call.

[lancdem]

12. Check this out

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com

[Cha]

62. Thank you, lancdem!

Very Interesting!

[HEyHEY]

13. If I was CBS, I'd call up the lawyers right now

ANd sue their asses into the ground for libel

[Liberal Veteran]

14. So the White House now releases FORGED DOCUMENTS?

Start the impeachment proceedings then!

[FreeState]

15. Fonts are not new

Drudge says they are Times New Roman... they are not, they may be a style close to it but they are not TNR. Note TNR is from the 30's hardly a new font. Also with the advent of the computer fonts and their spacing are still based on the printing press as were typewriters (leading, kerning etc are all the same- in the late 60's electronic typerwriters did do kerning and subscript)....

Here is the proof (please do not dead link to this image... copy it and link from your own website please) :)

[trogdor]

52. Also note the difference in the superscript "th"

It sits higher than it would in Word. In Word, the top of the ascender for the superscript aligns with the tops of the numbers.

The 1's look like they were made with the L key. LOTS of typists from the 70's have picked up that habit because many typewriters did not have a key for the number one, including the original Selectric. It was just easier to learn to use the L key than to remember if the particular machine you're using has a 1.

FWIW, if I wanted to forge something from the 1970's, I would have used my 1927 model Remmington Noiseless. None of this nonsense with fancy typefaces or such.

[Gloria]

59. I think the 'feet" are different ....look at the p's and i's, for example.

also, the n's....it's quite pronounced.....

[The Magistrate]

17. CBS Ought To Sue Mr. Barnes, Sir

"Never send a ferret to do a weasel's work."

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[Generator]

18. Fuck it all I'm gonna need that blood pressure medicine

NO matter what the FUCK we do, is Democracy doomed? (oh yeah and Fuck Ralph Nader)

So, it doesn't matter, does it? All they have tosay is, it's all a lie, it's all fake. Pretty soon they will just make up our reality totally. Let 9/11 happen, get a medal for letting it happen.

King George is the King. And don't fucking forget it.

[Walt Starr]

20. Then Bush released forged documents as his military record

because this document right here was released by Bush in 2000 and it has the SAM proportional font with the SAME superscript:

[DoBotherMe]

22. You are the man Walt!

I remember using an IBM Executive typewriter in 1973 that had special characters, such as superscripts and subcripts, for use in typing legal documents. Maybe this office had one of those. Dana ; )

[jimshoes]

23. You are a superstar Walt

Nice catch!!! I figured anything that came from bushco was tainted. Was he lying then or now or both?

[DougieZero]

24. where do you see superscript?

I don't see it...

[DoBotherMe]

25. 2nd line "111th" <eom>

[DougieZero]

28. yep.. thanks n/t

n/t

[renotyme]

30. the font is not proportional

in this document the font is not proportional.

[EST]

31. This whole thing is getting a bit tiresome.

Doesn't anyone friggin' understand? I know all this cafe conversation is fun, but doesn't it occur to any of these foil heads that these are copies?
That the originals are still safely ensconced at military records?
That there must be twenty fucking billion other documents in said repository with exactly the same type face?
If KKKarl did a sweep and replace on these documents, he would have to replace umpteen billion others.
About the only thing that could actually be done would be to remove offending documents, burn down the whole thing or maybe try to insert some cleverly faked single docs into the system and those docs are hardly likely to be truthful and condemning of screw-brain Georgie.
Whew! There must be a half million folks today driving up their blood pressures and blowing steam trying to twist themselves into wierd knots around some half-baked theory about a lousy, lazy, intemperate, overgrown retrograde teenager and his manipulating, vile family.
(Soapbox safely back under bed)

[aquart]

50. Yes, but this is the CSI generation.

We know that details matter.

[Frodo]

33. That's not a proportional font. But the superscript is a good find.

A little fuzzy to tell for sure - and I wonder why the rest of the document doesn't include it?

But that's not a proportional font. Take a look at the fourth and fifth lines from the bottom and look at the second word in each. The word "re designated" is two characters longer than AD/ACDUTRA and extends two spaces beyond - just as it should


AD/ACDUTRA
redesignated

Now look at a proportional font. The lack of capitals and a couple narrow characters add up to a word that prints out in significantly less space.



AD/ACDUTRA
redesignated

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Frodo]

43. Yeah it's a different typewritter.

Some did have a special "th" character, perhaps requiring the change of a print ball. Looks like the typist did this once and decided it wasn't worth it through the rest of the document. I can see myself saying "cool! But I ain't doing THAT again".

[Walt Starr]

55. There are at least four different typewriters used on that document

It's a Form AF 7. It's filled out by multiple clerical workers over a period of YEARS.

Line two is what matters for this discussion.

[Frodo]

58. Yeah I caught that from your earlier post.

But that line is equally spaced as well.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

67. Some did have a special "th" character

Olympia typewriters. Standard feature, no big deal. Olympias were widely used in the federal government.

Yes, I'm going to keep saying this.

[TacticalPeek]

34. Well, that's that.

Attaboy, Walt Starr. :toast:

Perhaps now the freeps can direct their skepticism toward Dan Bartlett and the other records 'fixers'. There's probably something indictable down that road.

:evilgrin:

[gasperc]

35. hilarious

I wonder if Kondrake and Hume are still frothing and flapping???

[Survivor97]

63. Where Can I find This Online?

I need to make a copy and force feed it to someone.

Thanks!

[Walt Starr]

64. It's in portrait in this document

Released by Bush:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/bushdocs/9-Miscellaneous.pdf

[newyawker99]

69. Hi Survivor97!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[swag]

29. It's comical to me that people who accept the existence of something

as bizarre and uncalled for as a supreme being would ever attempt to apply skepticism to any other matters.

First typewriter with a proportional font was manufactured in 1944.

http://inventors.about.com/library/inventors/bltypewriter.htm

Dumbshits.

[EST]

37. You tell 'em swag

I just blew a fuse!

[IronLionZion]

32. Faux news forges most of their so called "news"

[Pobeka]

36. Little things bug me -- Why is "th"superscripted on second line, but

not on the other lines in the document Walt Starr found?

I would think if I was a military clerk, and I typed the 111th thousands of times, I'd always type it the same way out of habit ("muscle memory" as those who do complicated repetitive tasks would call it).

Why 2 different ways here?

On edit: To be clear, this is the document I'm talking about:

[TacticalPeek]

38. That form is typed on over many years.

Different clerks, different typewriters, different bases or posts sometimes. The only way it would look 'consistent' is if it is reconstructed.

Or maybe when it's only a few months old, leaving your training outfit. After that it goes through many mitts.

[Walt Starr]

39. And different typewriters

You can see at least four different typewriters were used on tht document.

[Pobeka]

42. Or at the very least a different author in 2 places on the document.

This is what I find to be the most rational explanation. More than one author, more than one typewriter.

On Edit: DOH! Yes, it's supposed to be typed on by more than one clerk! Never mind...

[Frodo]

47. Good point - I hadn't considered that.

I still don't see the proportional font. Where did you notice it?

[Pobeka]

49. Doh!, I get it now.

DOH!

[MadamImAdam]

40. Screw Fox and all repubs - let's do a docudump on their asses

Keep tossing bombs and let them spin in their alternate universe. Let's dump them all now!!!

[newyawker99]

70. Hi MadamImAdam!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[AmerDem]

44. They have to say this

It's the ONLY counter they have. They needed to do something immediately to discredit this story. Unfortunately for them they can't undo the truth. This was the next best thing!

60 Minutes wouldn't ruin their great reputation by not thoroughly going over everthing.

[TacticalPeek]

53. "It's the ONLY counter they have."

However, it appears to have had somewhat of a blunting effect on the scandal story, according to Dana Milbank earlier tonight somewhere on tv. Or so it seems. Oh, and what a YELLOW press!

Therefore, as noted elsewhere here, MORE MORE MORE MORE MORE MORE MORE.

[AmerDem]

57. NO, the white house driven media has caused the blunt!

They could have easily said space aliens wrote the story and the corporate media would have behaved the same way. This is the same blunting Kerry has been fighting from the get go.

[Name removed]

68. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[aquart]

45. See? I KNEW we needed to know more about the damn machine.

[johnfunk]

46. Crude forgeries? Not by CBS...

The first thing that went through my mind when I heard that Little Green Snotballs, Brent "Ginger Git" Bozell and Matt Drudge were suddenly claiming that they were forgeries was the very same one that Lambert at Corrente had:

They were forged and planted at the behest of Karl Rove... and perhaps CBS was on to it.. in which case CBS would have the story that would bring down the White House...

DEVELOPING...

[Catherine Vincent]

56. Fuck Fox News!

Someone had to say it.

[Texas_Dem]

61. Fox forges the news all the time. They are so used to

everything they do being fake, it is natural to utter such nonsense.