White House says "doesn't matter whether true or not"...

[Flubadubya]

Staight from Susan Malveaux's lips. She says the white house is now saying that the "President is already 'defined' in American's minds, and it won't matter whether the CBS documents are TRUE or NOT."

Oooh, boy! Well, that 'splains it doesn't it? Getting the propaganda in place already that even when proven true, it won't matter to the American public. Watch out folks, here it comes... the really big spin! :puke:

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

1. Unfortunately, there is some truth to that.

I don't think a lot of people care at this point. He's already been President for 4 years. People care about this stuff when you're seeking election because it's an indicator as to how you'll do. But we already know how he'll do, so it's sort of irrelevant at this point. It'll change a few minds, sure, but I don't think this sort of thing will have as great an impact on Bush as the asshole swifties did on Kerry.

[Warpy]

7. Only for the 18-30 cohort

People much older than that have at least a dim recollection of what Vietnam was all about, even if they spent much of it in diapers.

The point has to be made by the few Democratic talking heads that are allowed on the major media that it's about character, not about Vietnam. Kerry did his duty and returned to try to get his band of brothers home from that awful war. Bush was a party boy who shirked his duty and got bought out of the consequences by a doting but corrupt father.

[KansDem]

16. I agree, this will hurt Bush...

I think Americans already have a sense of what Bush is: part of a connected, privileged family. Americans know George failed in everything he did only to be bailed out by rich, powerful friends. This incident only adds to the that long list of "accomplishments" and helps to clarify his character:

School--used connections to get into Yale;
Business--used connection$ to bail him out of failed ventures;
2000 Campaign--used connections to steal White House
etc.

Now voters have yet another facet to add to this view of Bush: connections to get out of Vietnam and avoid punishment when he decided to ignore orders and get out of the TANG.

They will put all of this together and wonder what powerful, rich connection is actually running this country...

[Flubadubya]

12. That's exactly what the media says...

must be true. Of course, the media NEVER really strongly questioned whether or not the SBVT crap was fake or not, they just put it out their with little or no scrutiny. However, when it comes to Bush, they will PUSH with all their might the "facts" (Hah!) that these documents are faked. It is SO obvious which side they are on.

AND... the American people will buy their Bushit hook, line, and sinker. It is not even so much the right wing operatives who are doing this, but the fact that the American media so willingly and gleefuly plays their part in the dysinformation.

So, you don't think there is anything that will change peoples' minds about Bush at this point? No truth scathing enough, nothing at all? If that's so, then let's all pack up and go home. It's over.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

18. No, and I don't appreciate you putting words in my mouth.

I didn't say we couldn't change people's minds about Bush AT ALL. I just don't think AWOL is going to do it. If you actually read what I wrote, it's because these kinds of issues are supposedly a predictor for how one will perform in office. We already know how he's performed, so what's the point of it now? It would've been better if we had dug into this in 2000.

The point is, there are 4 years worth of perfect material that we can and should be using against George Bush, and the 4 years I'm referring to weren't during Vietnam.

[Flubadubya]

24. You're really right...

and I didn't mean to put words in your mouth, sorry. I was originally going to respond to your post with the exact point you made that this should have all been scrutinized and a big issue made of it in 2000. But, just like now, the media was then also covering George's ass.

I'm just frustrated as hell at the media right now, and the gullability of the American people. Please pardon my presumptious comments. Didn't mean to offend. I think we're really on the same page.

[spotbird]

2. Andrea Mitchell had an old tape of an interview with *

where Dan Quale's guard service was mentioned. Bush said that he used connections to get into the guard, lots of people did. The tape was aired the night the new documents story broke, then it disappeared.

[John_H]

20. Link?

[derby378]

3. Sieg Heil, baby! (n/t)

[guitar man]

4. Translation "already defined"

"They've drank the Kool Aid"

[Cocoa]

5. lots of stuff doesn't matter

doesn't matter if we get Osama
doesn't matter if there's no WMD
everyone knows, deficits don't matter
etc. etc.

[calimary]

22. THIS is a good MEME.

Well worth repeating. Steers the "story" straight back to where it belongs. It's to QUESTION dUBYA. NOT to question THOSE WHO question dubya.

[derby378]

6. One more thing...

Do you have a link yet?

[Flubadubya]

13. I don't know if there is a transcript or a link per se....

It was just Susanne Malveaux talking to Wolf Blitzer on the White House grounds. If this is the WH's new talking point, you will hear it aplenty!

[VolcanoJen]

8. Also, Kerry's camp is being coy,saying "We don't have a statement *today.*

Something is up, and I have a feeling it's going to break against Bush...

[Walt Starr]

9. That pretty much settles it

The documents are real and the White House knows it. They saw a possibility for questioning the authenticity and ran with it to put doubt in people's minds. Then they come out with the big lie that it doesn't matter before CBS proves beyond any doubt the documents are real.

[Flubadubya]

14. That's the way I read it Walt...

They know the authenticity will be proved, and they are trying to get out in front of the truth (again) with the bigger lie that they hope sells!

[displacedtexan]

10. IMHO, this can only mean that...

CBS has more to release and is playing chess, not checkers.

[KC21304]

11. Of course they have to say that because they know they are not

forgeries. They destroyed copies of some of these documents in Bush's files in 97.

[skip fox]

17. Yes. I think this is the clearest sign yet that the documents aren't

forgeries. They fed the forgery bit trhu Fox News to buy a little time. Now THEY have determined these were not forgeries ro, at least, the reasons that have been given, and they're playing a follow-up (defensive) position.


Hell . . . this guy had to have more than 4 memos typed, right? I mean his files are chock full of similar type fonts &c. All one need do is find another . . . about anything . . . water quality, for Christ's sake! Anything.

[skygazer]

15. To a certain extent, I agree

I think it's a costly distraction. People can argue about this ad infinitum without determining anything either way. In the meantime, no one is paying any attention to the issues, on which Bush doesn't have a leg to stand on.

The guy has fucked up for four years on every aspect of his reign - the economy, the environment, security, health care, etc. But what do we focus on? His NG record. Again.

Kerry has so much more to offer on the issues and we're arguing about type fonts! :wtf:

[Flubadubya]

19. So, we just let the WH and the media...

convince the American people that someone has maliciously lied about our honorable president and made all this stuff up, and it surely wasn't any republican that did it... so, that just leaves us traitorous Dems to blame, right?

So, if we just don't respond to their lies it will all be OK as long as we stay on message with the bread and butter issues. If only that were so!

[MrBenchley]

21. Not to luff der fuehrer is a great disgrace....

What's hilarious is that the GOP's entire campaign is basically Sally Field writ large..."You like me. You really really like me..."

Which I see precious little evidence for outside of the natterings of right wing pundits. Certainly around here (in a largely Republican part of the state) I don't see much personal love for pResident Toot....what support there is based on hatred of other Americans...

[AZCat]

23. Scott McClellan continues in a similar vein in 9/10/04 Press Gaggle

White House Press Gaggle

Press Gaggle by Scott McClellan

September 10, 2004

Aboard Air Force One

En route Huntington, West Virginia

9:59 A.M. EDT

<snip>
Q Scott, on the National Guard documents, do you have any suspicions about their authenticity?

MR. McCLELLAN: We don't know whether the documents were fabricated or are authentic. You know, the media has talked to independent experts who have raised questions about the documents. CBS has not disclosed where the documents came from. But, regardless, it does not -- the documents do not change the facts. The President met his obligations and was honorably discharged. And the one thing that is clear is the timing and the coordination going on here. There is an orchestrated effort by Democrats and the Kerry campaign to tear down the President because of the direction the polls are moving. And it's not surprising that we're seeing the same old recycled attacks. The Democrats are determined to throw the kitchen sink at us, and I suspect this is just the beginning.
</snip> (emphasis mine)

More stuff in the Gaggle - "Fortunate Son" comes up, and Scotty calls Hatfield "an ex-convict that was widely discredited in the 2000 campaign." It's interesting to see that their bringing this up.