I don't blame Prop 8 on religion....

[PresidentObama]

....I blame it on ignorance.

I'm a gay atheist.

But I have plenty of sane, accepting religious friends.

Religion had nothing to do with it. Using religion as a political weapon to push forward agendas did.

[Fran Kubelik]

1. Interesting perspective.

But how do you explain Mormon leaders funneling so much money into the election?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

3. Because of their inferior, degenerate white skin.

You can expect chalkies to act like that.

[PresidentObama]

5. They use their religion as a political weapon, as most Christians do.

Blame the Christians, not the Christianity.

[Fran Kubelik]

8. Most Christians? Or many Christian leaders?

I should be clear that I haven't quite figured out who, if any one group, I "blame" for this passing. I was just asking you to flesh out your perspective more. It seems to make sense.

[renie408]

12. Hate the game, not the player. n/t

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

2. You god damn atheists.

What with your logic and reason.

Go back to Atheia!

[JuniperLea]

4. So all the church financial support of Prop H8 means nothing?

All the signs being passed out at churches, all the meetings at churches wherein parishoners were told to vote yes and why God hates gays?

[PresidentObama]

6. Blame the Christians, not the religion. And that's the last time I'll defend Christianity.

There isn't much I like about religion.

But this was about political agendas, they just used their religion as a shield and a weapon.

[JuniperLea]

10. Most of the Christians I know are very unlike Christ

I know a few who walk the talk and I'll defend them to the death.

What I will never defend is churches allowing Christianity to be used in such a hateful way, and with lies no less! Lying is one of the top 10 sins!

[GreenPartyVoter]

9. Indoctrinated ignorance enforced by fear of Hell.

[JuniperLea]

11. That is how evil religions have controlled people for centuries!

Keep them stupid and scared... much like the tactics of BushCo.

[GreenPartyVoter]

14. And Palin. Of course, coming from a really rigid religion, she already knew how to

spin that scary stuff for the voters.

[JuniperLea]

24. I'm a recovering Fundie...

I used to attend an Assembly of God, just like Palin's church... truly scary. The whole experience turned me Agnostic. The control is hideous. I went to church with my aunt just after Bush invaded Iraq, and they were telling people to pray for our dear President! And please dear JAYSUS! Please shine your heavenly light on the true path so others might understand and follow our dear president...

:puke:

It was all I could do NOT to get up and walk out. Only to save my aunt face did I stay in my seat and silently fume! Thankfully, the few gasps I couldn't contain were disregarded... I'm sure anyone who heard thought I was caught up in "The Spirit".

How sad that God has been bastardized so.

[GreenPartyVoter]

28. I started dating the son of a preacher of a similar denomination. Married into the

family, go to their church. It can get a little wearying sometimes, but it has had its up sides too. (Such as forcing me to mingle with people I would have otherwise avoided. Checking my innate sense of self-righteousness. Allowing me to share my own views with them. That sort of thing.)

[JuniperLea]

33. You're lucky...

All I got was the verbal smackdown for asking questions... and I was just a kid! I had my own music ministry... until the elders told me the beat of my music came straight from the depths of hell... that was all I could take.

[GreenPartyVoter]

34. Oh yeah. I've tangled with that sort before. And usually they liked country instead. Why

that's holy and rock isn't, I will never understand. :eyes:

[JuniperLea]

38. Who are they to say God didn't create the rock?

He works in mysterious ways, right? I was filling the church with youngsters, and eventually even their parents, twice a week... the Friday night youth service, and the Sunday night regular service. Hey, I felt Lord Led... but I guess I was wrong? Pft!

[GreenPartyVoter]

40. Hubby used to teach at a Xian interdenom school. And every time they sent out a

book order to the families, GooseBumps was Xed out. :eyes: Why? Because the more conservative families complained about it. See, they had to tell everyone how things should be done rather than allows each family to make its own choices.

I almost died the day I volunteered in one of the older grades and found I had to teach history. Did you know that Noah's 3 sons founded the different races of the earth just a mere 5000 years ago? :eyes:

I will _never_ send my kids to a religious school. Ever. (Well, I would consider a liberal one, but hubby would never agree to that. LOL)

[JuniperLea]

43. I have a Xian missionary cousin

She's a truth seeker and doesn't believe what she is told... only what she learns on her own. She and her daughter teach Hebrew. Her sister is ultra churchy:) She got all bent out of shape because of a dragon tattoo my sister has on her shoulder... then she popped ET into the VCR... and I said, you know, I wonder about that ET... he heals... I think that's wrong... only God heals... poor Cousin was beside herself. I think after being told what not to view and what to view for so long, they lose their own senses.

I love them all... churchy and not:) God might have made me that way, I dunno... :)

[GreenPartyVoter]

47. LOL well... it can be hard work for me to love them sometimes, but I am sure they feel similarly

:P

[LittleClarkie]

42. Does the long list of churches against Prop 8 also mean nothing?

If you want it, I can find it for you.

[TexasObserver]

60. It means little. UU? There's a couple dozen people.

I kid UU because I love UU, but the point is that UU is hardly your typical religion. It's just the opposite of the typical religion in America. UU is the non-religion religion.

Yes, there were a number of churches that opposed prop 8, but they represent a fairly small number of people.

The Catholic church and LDS are the two major perps, but they were aided and abetted by all the fundie churches, all the standard Protestant churches.

[LittleClarkie]

62. I'm from a standard Protestant church

ELCA Lutheran. Howdy.

[TexasObserver]

65. Luthern is left of center in today's American Christendom.

The problem is not Luthern. It's not Methodist. It's not Presbyterian.

It's Baptists, it's Catholics, it's Mormons, and it's fundies of every stripe.

[Guava Jelly]

7. Both are guilty.

..

[Fran Kubelik]

15. ?

[Guava Jelly]

17. Quilty as charged

:D

[renie408]

13. I do. n/t

[1corona4u]

16. I don't think religion has anything to do with it either....

I know people who are not religious, but don't support gay marriage.

[renie408]

21. What does that MEAN?

You know atheists who are anti-gay marriage? Well, I can top that. I AM an atheist and I am pro-gay marriage. And my husband is an atheist and he supports gay marriage. And I know several other atheists who support gay marriage. So I will see your homophobic non-religious acquaintances and raise you ten pro gay marriage atheists.

If religion had nothing to do with it, how do you account for the fact that in exit polling, the overwhelming majority of people who voted for prop 8 identified as religious? And that the ones that identified as deeply religious voted nearly unanimously for prop 8?

Christ, what you posted like saying I know Republicans who are pro-choice, so it is wrong to say that Republicans are pro-life.

[1corona4u]

67. First of all, lose the 'you must be full of shit' attitude.

Second; the people I am specifically referring to, as I have posted about numerous times since the election, have said they don't agree with gay marriage, BECAUSE they don't think it's right. Period. That's their RIGHT to feel the way they do. It's called liberty. Which we were all assured in the 14th amendment. Freedom of opinion, freedom of thought, freedom to CHOOSE how they feel about something. WE don't have to agree with it, and not everyone HAS TO be in one camp or another. What WE have to do is overcome their objections, somehow. Believe me, I have been fighting this out since the election with a neighbor. We had amendment 2 here in Florida, so it was a factor in our election as well.

Some of you talk as if there are only 2 possible groups of people on this planet; those who are religious and do not support it, and those who are non religious, but do support it. I assure you, that's just not the case.

Specifically, the people I am talking about said; 1. it has nothing to do with religion, since they are not 'church goers', 2. the human body was designed for a man and a woman to 'fit' together, and 3. they think being gay is a perversion.

Those 3 things are what lies beneath, and are causing the problem. Like I said, how to overcome those objections. That's what needs to be accomplished.

[PresidentObama]

23. Please expand and explain n/t

[Hippo_Tron]

18. Hatred, fear, and ingorance are responsible

Different stages of the same animal. People fear what they don't understand and they hate what they fear. Fred Phelps and his crew are in the hate stage, the Mormon Church is at the fear stage, and those who were on the fence and persuaded by the propaganda are at the ignorance stage. Once you're at hate, it's vitually impossible to change and fear is very difficult to change as well. Ignorant people, can be informed, but it needs to be done sooner rather than later before their ignorance turns into fear.

[Blarch]

19. How does this make sense ?

Religion had nothing to do with it. Using religion as a political weapon to push forward agendas did"

If the bible didn't preach hate against gays, then it could not be used as a political weapon to push agendas against gays.

This hate stems from the bible people, without the hate in the bible...most of this wouldn't be around.

[renie408]

22. It doesn't make sense. I have a good friend whose husband is a deacon in their church

and they are very liberal and pro-gay marriage. Even she says that religion is the basis for most anti-gay sentiment.

[PresidentObama]

25. Perhaps you should hit Google, the Bible doesn't condemn homosexuality.

http://www.soulforce.org/article/homosexuality-bible-gay-christian

[renie408]

29. Perhaps you should hit reality.

The Bible is the ultimate one-size-fits-all. It is called 'interpretation'. You see, the Bible is open to interpretation. For every website you can find that says the Bible doesn't condemn homosexuality, I can find ten that explain exactly HOW the Bible condemns homosexuality.

And, once again, let me remind you that the large majority of people that voted FOR prop 8 identified as religious. The people who identified as non-religious largely voted AGAINST it.

Spin away, my friend, religion is responsible.

[PresidentObama]

31. Did you even read it? That was fast.

Here's the link again: http://www.soulforce.org/article/homosexuality-bible-gay-christian

People are responsible. Religion isn't.

[renie408]

32. I know what the Bible says...and what it doesn't.

I also know that the Pope says homosexuality is a sin, that the overwhelming majority of pastors, preachers, rabbis and reverends say it is a sin and that the majority of people who identify as religious say it is a sin. So, your link might have decided it isn't and that the Bible doesn't specifically say anything about homosexuality, but it is fighting an uphill battle against over 2000 years of religious belief. I will go back and read it, but I imagine it is going to offer the kinder, gentler versions of Paul's letters to Rome and Jesus' comments about marriage. I will be interested to see how it gets around Leviticus 18:22, though, so I will read it.

[JuniperLea]

35. Where in the Bible

does God tell us to force everyone else, including non-believers, to follow his laws?

[renie408]

39. What? What are you talking about? Nowhere does it say that.

But do you think that is stopping the Jerry Falwells and Pat Robertsons of the world? Religion is a man made thing. It is interpreted by men and implemented by men and fucked up by men. RELIGION ISN'T SPIRITUALITY. Religion is a cult. Period. If you really want to understand god, stay away from religion.

[JuniperLea]

44. I agree with you completely!

I love spiritual people, but religious people scare the hell out of me!

I think the crux of the matter is that God never told Christians to force his laws upon anyone else, and that is what they are trying to do. Jerry, Pat... in a long line of others. I think they are all going against God's will. And they aren't clever enough to understand that... or too greedy to.

[renie408]

48. Or they just believe what they have been taught.

The problem is that for 2000 years religion has taught that certain things are bad. Religious leaders started cherry picking through the Bible a long time ago and now, it has just become 'the truth'. Only it is the furthest thing from the truth.

The whole thing frustrates the hell out of me. The solution is not to pretend that religion doesn't produce bigots, but for REAL Christians to acknowledge that unfortunately, a lot of religious leaders DO teach bigotry. I will cut them some slack and say that most of them are teaching it because they really think that is what the Bible says. But I can't do anything about it. I am an atheist. Christians tend to look askance at anything I have to say about religious reform. It's YOU guys that have to do something about it. But most of the Christians I see on this board are so busy exonerating the church from any responsibility, that they will never get around to changing anything. You can't say, "Religion is not at fault" and fix the problem of religion teaching homosexuality is a sin at the same time.

[anigbrowl]

57. There'll be wailing and gnashing of teeth for those who don't.

You can cherry pick the bible if you want a watered-dwon, right-on version of Christianity, but ther's plenty of stuff in the Bible arguing that homosexuality, among other things, is an abomination (Deuteronomy, if I recall). Matter of fact, I first learned about homosexuality, bestiality etc., from reading the Bible. Thanks a lot for destroying my innocence, Jehovah.

[JuniperLea]

69. I totally understand the scriptures on this

And people have a right to believe what they want to believe as long as they don't use it against others. But that doesn't answer my question.

Where in the Bible does it say that Christians are supposed to impose their own beliefs upon others? From what I've read, there is nothing in the Bible that tells people they must thrust God's laws upon others. In fact, it's quite the opposite story. If you believe the mythology, God put us here and gave us free will to choose him and his ways, or not. Seems to me Christians are going against God's will by trying to force their beliefs upon others. I've asked this question for over 40 years and no one can answer the question. Many church elders have gotten hot under the collar trying to spin it around back onto me, but no one ever answered the question. I think it is a very valid question, and I believe it is the crux of the situation.

[anigbrowl]

71. I find this hard to believe, but here's some answers

(Hard to believe insofar as I'm surprised a religious person hasn't articulated this argument to you).

Christians are certainly meant to go out and attempt to convert people; Christians are enjoined to do so in books such as Corinthians and so forth. Now, obviously the more Dominionist and God-fearing (as opposed to loving) types draw heavily on the various proscriptions of the Old Testament, arguably discounting Christ's talk of a new covenant and the idea that many proscriptions from the Old Testament are thus deprecated.

However, it depends on how broadly or narrowly one interprets scripture. The broad interpretation is that apart from the ten commandments, everything else in the OT is deprecated and the sensible thing to do is hang on to the Commandments, tack on the Sermon on the Mount and the death & resurrection of Jesus, and there's your new covenant (I'm over-simplifying here to save several thousand words of definition, obviously). So believe in Jesus, do unto others etc., don't kill steal etc., and you've got a path to salvation.

A narrow interpretation of scripture, by contrast, takes the position that only those things which Jesus explicitly said were deprecated actually are - thus stoning women for adultery is right out nowadays because Jesus explicitly said this was a Bad Thing, whereas his lack of comment on homosexuality means that existing prohibitions stay in effect. Please note that I am not saying that this is what the bible means, but that this is how some people choose to interpret it.

Ultimately, any and all readings of the Bible are selective since it's scope is so broad and it's so self-contradictory. Sadly, human psychology being what it is, the authoritarian interpretation is still a hot seller because there are a lot of people out there that want to be told what to do rather than given responsibility and the accompanying uncertainty. In practice a lot of the evangelical churches seem to have decided to push the instant salvation (blow up the whole world if you want, just acknowledge Jesus as your lord and saviour before you kick the bucket), while referring back to the old testament for most of their rules to live by. Militant Christian types don't seem to have much time for the bits about turning the other cheek or giving away everything you own.

[JuniperLea]

74. While I appreciate the effort...

I've heard and read all this before, but it still doesn't answer the question. There is a big difference between pushing salvation and looking for converts, and forcing "God's Laws" upon society as a whole.

[anigbrowl]

76. I'm not religious, so I don't hew to a particular interpretation

But people who dew adhere to a narrow, authoritarian interpretation of the bible can find readings within to justify their authoritarian viewpoint. Since it's so contradictory, I think objective interpretations are impossible - thus the prevelance of Paulists and Old Testamentarians.

[renie408]

37. Ok, I read it and I was right. It is a kinder and gentler interpretation of

Bible verses.

But in my earlier posts I failed to convey my Premise Number One: All religion is bullshit. Your soulforce buddy can decide that the Bible doesn't REALLY intend for people to take Leviticus seriously any more because it is based on sexual beliefs of 3000 years ago, but that would be his OPINION. Unfortunately for gay people, too many of the rest of the people who call themselves Christians believe that crap RELIGIOUSLY.

The truly incomprehensible part of the whole thing to me is that you would expect 'Christians' to follow the teachings of CHRIST over the superstitious tripe of the Old Testament. You would think that people who say that their lives are devoted to religion would do some research on this thing they are devoted to and realize that the Bible was cobbled together by a committee 400 years after Christ died. And that SOMEBODY would figure out that the Old Testament and the New Testament are not even the same religion. But nahh...they just roll with whatever the pastor tells them. And most of them tell them that homosexuality is a sin.

[Telly Savalas]

54. Correlation now equals causality?

When did they change that?

[Bill McBlueState]

73. What do you think is producing the correlation,

if not the homophobic attitudes encouraged by traditional religion?

[LittleClarkie]

51. I have this link as well

I thought the liberal Christian section was interesting

http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_bibl.htm

[Rebubula]

83. Change the context...

...all you want.

Leviticus 20:13: "A man who sleeps with another man is an abomination and should be executed"

Seems pretty clear to me...but what do I know? I am just another atheist

[LittleClarkie]

46. Does it teach hatred?

Some at this site would disagree

http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_bibl.htm

And Fred Phelps is a lousy example. Fred would picket Jesus. Damn long hair freak.

[anigbrowl]

59. 'Abomination' isn't what I'd call tolerant and diplomatic.

Individual churches can be arbitrary fuzzy and reality-based (eg not treating the Bible as the literal word of God etc.), but as far as the Bible itself goes, it's chock-full of discriminatory and intolerant edicts. Mostly in the Old Testament, obviously; arguably al of that becomes null and void depending on how you interpret Jesus' talk of a new covenant.

[Danger Mouse]

61. It's tough to treat the bible as the literal word of God because so much of it is self-contradictory

and so much of it is not even remotely applicable to modern times. Most of what appears in the Old Testament is relevant to the time it was written in, and not much else. Sure, you can say stuff like the Ten Commandments continue to be applicable because they are all timeless concepts.
However, when they referred to homosexuality, there's speculation that it was the practice of sodomizing prisoners of war and stuff like that. The reason a lot of these laws were written into the old testament wasn't just for religious purposes, it was to control problems that existed in society at that time.
Go back and read Leviticus and Deuteronomy, and ask yourself how much of it you think is applicable today, how many of those situations even exist in today's world.

[anigbrowl]

72. Of course. I'm just bringing it up because we still have alot of 'literalists' around

Of course, I think most of them are batshitinsane, but nevertheless there are several millions of them; Palin certainly seemed to bring them out of the woodwork. Let's face it, people who think the Virgin Mary appears in streaky windows and damp patches on concrete don't have the intellect to deal with sociology, anthropology and so on - it's easier to deal with 'God likes this and not that, and God can kick your ass so you should obey me, God's self-appointed messenger'.

[TheKentuckian]

20. The fault is with those who wish to use their religious beliefs

to establish secular law.

You can believe whatever you like, no matter how seemingly insane to another observer as long as you do not attempt to use those beliefs as the basis of our common secular law without converting those beliefs to a common language, reasoning, and without using their holy books and/or beliefs as the justification for the laws and initiatives they support.

That's it. Hammer away at the mentality because the rest of it is a distraction.

[renie408]

27. Amen. We had a cookout Saturday night for all the people who ride

at our barn. The subject of gay marriage came up at one point and one of the new mothers said, "Should we really allow the gays to get married? It goes against god's law." This woman who right up until then had seemed so pleasant and innocuous just kept spewing garbage like that. She went on to add that homosexuality was unnatural. I pretty much lost my shit and told her that not only was I completely offended by the fact that she thought it was her responsibility to decide whether to 'allow' anyone to do anything, I also told her that driving a fucking car was 'unnatural', surgery is 'unnatural' and that I couldn't figure out why the hell 'god's' law should have any business in my country's laws.

I don't think her kid is going to be at her lesson this Wednesday.

[jonnyblitz]

26. I blame the yes on 8 signs!!1

[KansasVoter]

30. LOL....you are wrong! Religion is 75% of it!

[spoony]

78. 75%? Is that 98% estimated?

[goletian]

36. religion is an excuse. its what bigots use to rationalize their bigotry. christianity

is not as homophobic as people suggest. jesus never said anything about homosexuals. and being gay is on par with eating shrimp, both "abominations."

[renie408]

45. I swear, this shit is going to make me go crazy before it is all over with.

Hey, Pollyanna, I get that in Barneyworld where you live that religion is a warm and fuzzy good time. But out here in the REAL world, most 'Christians' have never read the Bible and wouldn't be able to quote five verses from it. They follow the traditions that have dominated Christianity for 2000 years. And they think homosexuality is a sin. It doesn't matter how often you tell them that all sins are equal in the eyes of the lord. Or judge not lest ye be judged. Or religion is bullshit, try to form a rational thought for yourself. They know what they are taught. And some of them are nice enough to even feel bad that the queers are going to burn in eternal hell...but hey, that's how it rolls when you 'choose' to engage in unnatural acts.

You may not like it, you can twist it however you want, but the vast majority of the people who voted for prop 8 said that they were religious. And the majority of the people who said that they were NOT religious voted against prop 8. You can also argue that religion doesn't create bigotry, but that just doesn't fly. The people who were most ardently FOR prop 8 were the ones who went to church the most. Most people start going to church as children. They don't grow into fully mature bigots and say to themselves, "Hey, I need to justify my ignorant and hateful beliefs. I had better find myself a church that backs me up!!" They go to Sunday school and vacation Bible school and halfway listen to Sunday sermons and Wednesday night Youth pastors for years until they have fully assimilated the bigoted message that most churches teach. Not all. Most. There are churches out there that really believe in what Jesus says and they teach it. But for now they are in the minority.

[LittleClarkie]

41. I have called it a tool. Blame the people using the tool, not the tool itself

People who use religion to justify their bigotry are to blame. And yes, ignorance is to blame.

[Doityourself]

49. It had everything to do with religious belief with my extended family...I tried

enlightening them, by speaking of being black and discriminated against, and how they should understand and support gay rights, and I was told by each and everyone...JESUS DOESN'T LIKE IT, JESUS DOESN'T SUPPORT IT, IT'S AGAINST GOD!

[TheKentuckian]

50. Its 100% the people

these same folks eat pork and shellfish, fail to go the prescribed distance from town with a wooden trowel to bury their poo, certainly aren't releasing all debts every seven years, aren't up to welcoming the stranger, and have extreme difficulty with the whole not bearing false witness thing.

I'm no fan of organized religion and see it as a tool distort our natural belief of a greater will and a superior conscience the people should have the understanding and respect for our form of government to take the time to argue their beliefs in a secular framework or spend their time trying to convert "sinners" rather than using government to ensure they function as our beliefs indicate they should. Never, ever trust anyone that wishes to merge law and sin. To do so in effect negates God given free will and is hamfistedly working an angle to give themselves power. Generally, the people who use such strategies often have little faith in the divine but a great understanding of how to effectively wield power.

Brown shirts will be brown shirts. Religion is just a tool for them to get their way.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

52. religion makes ignorance turn into hate at its convenience. there are a lot of people

who are profiting through religion at the expense of us, its stupid to not blame religion.

[Hellataz]

53. I think Religion played a big part

To say it's ignorance is to give these people the benefit of the doubt, it's not ignorance it's hate, it's fear, it's the idea (taught in church) that being Gay is wrong and you'll go to hell if you are or accept it. So I guess in that sense it is ignorance, but then you can say that most religious people are ignorant for believing in something with no proof. Not to attack religious people but IMO, ORGANIZED religion and Ignorance go hand in hand. It's one thing to believe in god and live your life as morally as you can and leave it all up to a personal choice. but Organized religion feeds off ignorance, they promote one persons agenda (the pastor, minister, cardinal, pope...ect) and demand you believe THEIR interpretation of the bible. It leads to the masses all believing in stifled interpretation of the bible, interpretation that only serve to raise attendance and contributions to the church. Church look out for themselves, not their partitioners, they get everyone all riled up with false interpretations of the bible and make sure they fear what the church tells them too and then act on that fear.

These people in church believe what they are told based on their faith, not fact. You can't argue with that, you can't reason people out of their faith beliefs. It's stronger then ignorance.

For that reason I blame religion because, Ignorance is much more easier to cure then Faith.

[anonymous171]

55. Religious lefties need to stand up to the fundamentalists.

That's the only way we can prevent another atrocity like Prop 8.

[TheKentuckian]

56. We are trying

though its tough to land any blows from underneath the progressive bus. ;-)

To be honest though, I'm extremely nontraditional and am almost as much against organized religion as most atheists (though probably for different reasons).

[Danger Mouse]

63. Heh, it's a losing position for us 'religious lefties'...

since some folk on the progressive side will hate us no matter what we do, and the right wing will hate us anyway.

[Indenturedebtor]

66. Religion kills. I don't hate all religious people

but organised religion may be one of the worst things that ever happened to humanity.

[Danger Mouse]

81. Perhaps.

[spoony]

79. Yeah, it's not a terribly fun club...

Well most of the time. We've got awesome picnics and potato salad and stuff.

[TexasObserver]

58. Of course religion had everything to do with it.

Who do you think ponied up the $40 million to run the Pass Prop 8 effort?

The people who attend a particular church are often more rational than the church to which they belong. The church is like an abusive spouse the individual member has to make excuses for.

Religion is inherently about controlling and shaping how people think and what they find acceptable.

[Danger Mouse]

64. Religion had a lot to do with it. I am speaking as a religious person.

But religion had a lot to do with it. It was the weapon people used to justify their hatred. Ignorance is the root cause, yes, but they use religion to nurture their ignorance and turn it into hate.
It didn't have to be religion, of course, people will hate whether or not there is religion, but in this case, religion is definitely part of the problem.
It can also be part of the solution.

[mondo joe]

68. Agreed. People are using their religion as an excuse for their own bigotry.

Here's how I know: Countless religious people deviate from their religion on personal matters - extramarital sex, divorce and abortion come to mind.

They don't let religion dictate what they do except when it coincides with their own choices.

They're the bigots - the religion is just the excuse.

[Hepburn]

70. I have to agree in a way...

....the Mormons are NO religion, but they sure are a cult.

JMHO

[Cleita]

75. The homophobe isn't that far from the racist or the sexist.

So I agree religion isn't the problem but the extreme religions that promote the above three conditions. I think they should be regarded as cults. Other than the story of Sodom and Gomorah, there seems to be no reference to homosexuality in the bible as a sin. Also, many biblical scholars believe that the sin of S & G was one of hospitality of not treating visitors with respect as was the custom. It's not in the ten commandments. Jesus never excoriated any one for it. Could it be because, in the ancient world, homosexuality was accepted as part of life? If there are any references in the Bible that claims homosexuality is a sin that I may have missed, please educate me as I have not read every word in the Bible.

[dkofos]

77. The ignorance of the religious right.

[DevonRex]

80. That depends on the religion. Some are okay. Some are definitely not. nt

[0955Forrest]

82. 8 was approved by little minded people

who said "ewwwwww" and "ickkkk"

3 Million Dem voters flipped after voting for Obama and voted for 8.

5 words.

None of your f-in business what people do in their own lives. I can just see some freekin' idiot driving around in his Prius, "World Peace", "Hope", "Change" bumper stickers but he votes YES on 8 because gay marriage creeps him out. Hypocrites.

My world philosophy,

Leave people alone!