We need to prove to Josh Marshall that TANG had IBM Selectrics!!

[Dems Will Win]

He's wavering...

Who will be the hero and find the info on how the AF bought Selectrics and that's what Killian had in the TANG office?

Flood Marshall with your facts but especially this one and one more: IF SOMEONE WAS GOING TO FORGE A DOCUMENT FROM 1972, WHY WOULDN'T THEY FIRST GET AN OLD MODEL FROM E-BAY AND TYPE THEM UP ON THAT???????

[papau]

1. I still have working Selectrics! but the mag version (composer) would be

hard to find as it was so large.

But good grief, I bet they are still in use somewhere, as are wang typing operations (granted there is no service and todays computers are better).

In any case I had the IBM mag in 67, and by 70-71 the selectrics did all the IBM "composer" selectric variation called mag did in 67.

The simple explanation that works best is that the documents are not fake.

Have Josh hit Ebay and get a price on the last Selectric resale!

[LuminousX]

4. ebay

http://search.ebay.com/selectric_W0QQsokeywordredirectZ1QQfromZR8

[papau]

7. Well done!

:-)

[papau]

17. I should note that Exec and Composer did proportional - the Selectric

had a Times Romam ball - and Times Roman is defined as proportional - but the Selectric did not do real proportional

[Proud2BAmurkin]

2. No, only that selectrics were not uncommon

.

[Dems Will Win]

3. I heard likely they had Selectric II at that time but cannot find it now

[LuminousX]

6. History

http://www.etypewriters.com/history.htm

[aquart]

5. Anyone could have a Selectric. Selectrics are not the solution.

IBM Executive typewriters or the Selectric COMPOSER are likely solutions.

I had a question about the printing as well. I wanted to know if the documents had been done on a dot matrix. I saw dots in the online copies and I don't know what caused them.

CBS was amazingly disingenuous in expecting to be taken at their word. This is a story that could bring down a President. They should have done a lot better.

I absolutely believe the documents are genuine. But CBS did not document the authentication properly, sorry. All they really had to do was post other Bush TANG records for comparison. And have a conversation with IBM and post it.

It's not enough to know. We are under constant assault. We have to be able to PROVE.

[LuminousX]

8. CBS will reveal in due time

They are dealing with lawyer type stuff and lawyers are slow.

60 Minutes has a proven track record.

Deep breath. This is big. Watergate big. Watergate didn't bust Nixon in one day.

[krkaufman]

12. Eh... the "forgery" thing may help out...

... by keeping the story in the news for a longer duration. And CBS may choose to do another '60 Minutes' segment or two in order to clarify and defend their own credibility.

And has anybody commented on how quickly the Bush Admin has jumped on the "forgeries" bandwagon in this case, yet were wholly duped by the Niger documents?

[Stephanie]

9. Check this post:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=783048#783369

Neshanic (630 posts)
Fri Sep-10-04 11:38 AM
Response to Original message

20. I worked at IBM installing Selectrics in the late 70's

The practice was that the Selectrics were delivered to the client, and then me, an IBM newbie would go to the account and "install" it. They were bolted by wingnuts to a very hard base in the box, and had explicit instruction that the client not open the box, until the IBM representative came. The vast majority of people complied with this.

I would do this all day, and all Selectrics have a serial number, that was recorded and taken back to be recorded at the branch office.

All military Selectrics were in my experience taken out of the box, ignoring the IBM instructions not to do so. This was because at the recieving area, the military would attach a small metal plate to keep track of it.

All someone would have to do is find the record of the Selectrics at that base, and compare them to the IBM list.

I highly doubt a Composer was delivered to a base at that time. Composers were quite pricey and in my experience the Government agencies did not get anything but the Selectrics. Only later did they even get the Selectric II that had the white-out tape.

[shraby]

11. Compare with the other

documents from the Bush records that are online. You'll find they are similar.

[Gregorian]

10. This should be a nobrainer!

Get other files from the same office. Compare them, and it's over.
Am I wrong?

[krkaufman]

14. *Should be*, yes.

I agree. It should be as simple a matter as that. Compare these docs to whatever else is available and look for similar typesetting.

[alarcojon]

15. This is what I'm waiting on...

Unfortunately for us, and for the forces of sanity and reason, there is NEVER enough to convince some people. Their brains simply cannot wrap themselves around the implications of this.

[Joanne98]

13. I found something..........

That "something else" was ordnance disposal at Nellis Air Force Base, a 3.5 million acre bombing and artillery range in southern Nevada. Shaw's superiors found out about his computer background and put him to work in the facility's IT operation, which in 1990, amounted to two 286-era Zenith Z-100s that wouldn't boot from their hard drives, and two IBM Selectric typewriters.


http://esj.com/features/print.asp?editorialsId=45

here's more....
http://www.dcmilitary.com/airforce/beam/archives/jun5/bm_e6598.html

[Dems Will Win]

16. kick

[buycitgo]

18. fuck HIM

he's just as wrong about this as Somerby was about Joe Wilson

fuck im

[Pepperbelly]

19. Fuck Josh Marshall ... we don't have to convince him of shit.

It's a natual fact that the service was PERMEATED with Selectrics. While not as common as Zippo lighters, there were no other types that I saw when I was in. And some of them were top of the line.

Geez...

[djg21]

20. I'd think that there could be purchase orders.

Perhaps they could be obtained through a FOIA request.

[ima_sinnic]

21. ??? what's gotten into him??

how could anybody believe this instantly-spun Rove nonsense?
hasn't he heard that the "independent" "forensics expert" S.R. Lines (sorry, too lazy to get her whole name right now) is a Republican operative, member of The Wish List? There are so many holes in her THOROUGHLY UNSCIENTIFIC "investigation," which she completed in approximately nine minutes, it would never hold up in court, it's a joke.
sheesh, Josh, what happened to you?

[GoldenOldie]

22. I go with the F... Marshall

Dan Rather said they were given these memo's by who?????

CBS and their investigative team would only have to find someone that served during the same period with George W. Bush in the TANG and had the same LCOL commander. What are the probabilities that fellow officers, or NCO'S that received orders, instructions, memo's, etc., from the same LCOL, typed on the very same typewriter as Georgie's were???? How many Guard/Reservist vets have destroyed their military records? They didn't have cause to have their records scrubbed.