The elephant in the sitting room re: the "forgery" claims

[wryter2000]

I hate to start another forgery thread, honest. But I just read the article at www.foxnews.com (Headed to a shower right after I post this). It sites many people who knew Killian personally about how "He hated to type," "he never kept private files," etc. His own widow...and NOT A SINGLE ONE SAYS THE SIGNATURES ARE FORGED.

IF THE SIGNATURES ARE REAL, THE MEMOS ARE REAL. QED

[smada]

1. Not really

"IF THE SIGNATURES ARE REAL, THE MEMOS ARE REAL."

Afraid it's not that simple. Ever heard of Photoshop?

[yellowcanine]

6. If they are photoshopped they aren't real. I would hope that CBS

has original documents. If they are photocopies only, then shame on them.

[wurzel]

8. Are these docs copies or originals?

[tom_paine]

2. So, the White House released forged documents?

Or is the Pravda that the Evil Liberals at CBS concocted them.

This is so ridiculous, it makes the Sandy Berger flap (for which he was swiftly exonerated but I'll bet you don't that) look like the Nuremberg Trials.

However, what do facts or reason have to do with Imperial Amerika?

Nothing, I'm afraid.

Nothing at all.

The Age of Reason has left the building. The Medeval Madness is about to begin.

[Karmadillo]

3. A witch made those forgeries from the blood John Kerry never shed

in earning those Purple Hearts!

[htuttle]

18. Throw the documents in the water and see if they float!

[wurzel]

9. Did CBS get docs from WH?

[tom_paine]

23. Well the documents were released from DoD because of an AP

lawsuit (which shows there still is a small, honest faction rewmaining at AP-Bush)

I presume the documents went from there to CBS.

But this is total bullshit.

Every second we waste chasing this fabrication is another Red Herring.

In the old days, we might reasonably expect that the Free Press would look into it and corroborate or debunk the facts.

But there is no Free Press in Amerika.

He said "1 + 1 =2"

She said "1 + 1 =3"

"Next on Faux Reichsnews! Our roundtable of FehrUndBalanced Pundits examine which claim is true!"

[ItsMyParty]

4. When's the last time a freakin' officer did his own typing????

I use to type of my boss' notes and memos to himself and others all the time. Good god on those old typewriters it was a bitch to type because you just didn't hit the magic button and erase like with computers. In fact, if that guy didn't type according to a number of reports, he certainly had a staff who did it for him.

[crickets]

When he's typing his own CYA memos

to store at home just in case, perhaps?

[Alpharetta]

5. the real elephant

Just answer the question, Mr. President. Did you fail to visit the flight surgeon? Why?

[skip fox]

7. Best and Easiest way to prove? Here it is:

There must be thousands of other memos, reports, etc., as well as carbon-copies in the hands of former guardsmen
of the period. All CBS has to do is find one with the same font. (Every typewriter, by the way, has unique
"fingerprints" as the FBI well knows.)

One painless way of telling the truth is as simple as finding another piece of paper that went through that machine,
many of which must be available to any reporter worth his or her salt. So instead of hours spent arguing, a reporter
need simply look.

Someone already knows the names of all the pilots at that time and place. A reporter might ask one of these former
airmen to see his file (or to release records), etc. It's embarrassingly simple, one would think, . . . but we're living in
a world where reporters seem increasingly beyond embarrassment.

[gatorboy]

12. I don't think they'll seriously investigate this.

The "Some people say" crowd has already done a superb job at getting this out. In a few short days every news group is questioning the documents now because of a blogger's opinion?

This election is such an uphill battle, it wears me out sometimes...

[skip fox]

16. Me too. And it's not just this election.

Same problem Mr. Jack Gillis brought to my attention in 1998 when we realized the "talking points memo"
(supposedly given by the President--or one os his men--to Monica in order to have Tripp perjure herself. The
DAMNED memo that gave Kenneth Starr the authority to investigate the "Lewinsky affair" by the Justic Department.
The very newspapers (and I'm talking all the big ones: NY Times, W Post, etc.) that printed the talking points did not
realize that they had printed 3 different versions among themselves, with 7 variants in common with each version.
These variants included diction changes and phrase changes. It took us months of shouting to finally be heard. (Then we were on Burden of Proof, had aritcles written about our work by Conosan, Olipahnt, etc.) But, boy, you're right. Sure is damned tiring.

All we can do is keep trying.

:toast:

[Stephanie]

10. They're real - see Walt Starr's post:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x785258

[Walt Starr]

11. And now, in stereo!

Yep, it's corroborative and Killian signed it. See it for yourself here:

The document in question:



A second CBS released document with a signature:



From Bush's discharge request:



Bush's 1971 Evaluation:



and finally, Bush's 1972 evaluation:



So, if indeed the first document was forged (the one brought into doubt over the typeface and superscript), Killian forged it himself and MUST have done it prior to his death in 1984. That EVIL Jerry Killian positioned his documents to come out and harm George W. Bush's chances for re-election TWO DECADES AGO OR MORE!

[renotyme]

13. single downward stroke in forgeries, down and up in originals

you have proven that they are in fact forged.

[Walt Starr]

14. Are you an handwriting expert?

No?

Didn't think so, though your colors are showing.

[MissB]

15. Walt, I can say with absolute certainty

That I have never hit the "ignore" button as often as I have today. :7

Good work, btw.

[renotyme]

17. no, are you? and thanks for the accusation

should i believe you or my own lying eyes?

[Walt Starr]

19. No, but *CBS* hired handwriting analysts to verify the signatures

Killian's family admits it's his signature.

and CBS is comijng out punching on this issue tonight on the CBS Evening News:

http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=109&STORY=/www/story/09-10-2004/0002248214&EDATE=

Checkmate.

[renotyme]

22. methinks the lady doth protest too much

i'm happy to listen to these experts, weigh their views, rather than draw an unwarranted premature conclusion based on what I want to happen.

to each their own.

[nonkultur]

21. I used to trade autographs.

The discrepancies in the K can be explained by a hand injury or changes over time.

[skip fox]

20. Two hours at the FBI and they'd tell you for sure.

You can fake a sig., but you can't fake the various pressures (pen to paper) that a person used when writing the sig. These, too, individual . . . nearly as fingerprints. And the FBI has programs that can analyze these pressures.