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Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-19-08 06:16 AM
Original message
Dancing at the DU Iguana
Yeah, c'mon

When the music's over
When the music's over, yeah
When the music's over
Turn out the lights
Turn out the lights
Turn out the lights, yeah ….

Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside …..

What have they done to the earth?
What have they done to our fair sister?
Ravaged and plundered and ripped her and bit her
Stuck her with knives in the side of the dawn
And tied her with fences and dragged her down

I hear a very gentle sound
With your ear down to the ground
We want the world and we want it...
We want the world and we want it...
Now
Now?
Now!
--James Douglas Morrison


Sharon Wegscheider-Cruse developed an interesting model of the four roles that the children of an alcoholic family system tend to play. There are, of course, families with either more or less than four children. Models such as this one are not set in stone. Roles can blend, and change over time.

More, the general roles can be applied to other "family systems." Alcohol is not the lone cause of dysfunction. The loss of a job, a serious illness, or a death in the family can also create a family crisis that results in behaviors relating to this model.

Finally, it can be applied to illustrate how larger groups in our society experience the feelings that are associated with life in a dysfunctional, or unhealthy, system. And just as it applies to families when the potential for positive change comes knocking on the door, the same holds true for larger systems.

It’s been two weeks since Barack Obama won the 2008 election. In the second week, I’ve been reminded of Sharon Wegscheider-Cruse’s model many times.
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Madam Mossfern Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-19-08 06:19 AM
Response to Original message
1. Huh?
Are those two separate posts rolled into one, or is it too early for my age addled brain to comprehend?
What are the four types? Is that like the four sons in the Passover haggadah?
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-19-08 06:56 AM
Response to Original message
2. Can you direct me to an outline of her model? . . .
. . .now that you have given me an earworm?
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zeemike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-19-08 07:35 AM
Response to Original message
3. Without knowing anything about the system
I still think I understand what you mean.
I think it is called enabeling....the thing that keeps the dysfunctional system going, and keeps it going from generation to generation.
Is that what you mean?
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LiberalEsto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-19-08 07:57 AM
Response to Original message
4. Ah yes, the cheerleader, the lost child
the black sheep and the achiever.
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Madam Mossfern Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-19-08 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. Wow!!!!
Edited on Wed Nov-19-08 01:19 PM by Madam Mossfern
I have four kids and I can easily assign one of those to each of them.
I'm duly impressed.

On edit: Does that mean my family is dysfunctional?
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LiberalEsto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-19-08 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. I don't know the answer
When I learned about many years ago, it fit my first husband's family to a T. Their dad was an alcoholic and all their roles were their coping mechanisms.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-19-08 08:17 AM
Response to Original message
5. I also have a deep sense of dis-ease about what's been going on since 11/04
And, have to ask myself, were we just played? But, it's much too early to begin gleaning the answer to that.

Right now, this is like hosting the annual family reunion. They've all rolled into the house, and the place is a mess. Each arrived whether invited or not, but you've gotta invite them all in. You're reminded of the familiar psychopathologies -- the drunks, the bigots, the obsessives -- but don't use that as a gauge where your own life's going this year, the next four years, or the rest of your life.

I'm reminded of another tune: "Don't let it get you down, it's only ashes burning . . ."

And a third, "It's gonna be alright!"

We'll stay and help you clean up afterward.
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rosesaylavee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-19-08 08:59 AM
Response to Original message
6. Very interesting thread again, Mr. Waterman...
Funny and serious at the same time. My dysfunctional family didn't have the alchoholic family model growing up but my father died when I was just entering high school and that threw us all for a loop. I think, depending on who is available to play roles, some people can overachieve and move in and out of the the four roles depending on what is needed at the time. A few decades later I still mull over whatever that was that happened - will have to find her book and read more about this.

As for DU, I am accepting the team that Obama assembles and will wait to get annoyed (or will try) until about March.

Cheers!


http://www.coaf.org/family/parents%20in%20recovery/roleresponse.htm

The Family Hero: The family hero, usually the oldest child, is the perfectionist. This child believes that if he or she is perfect, the substance abuser will be cured. Perfectionism can range from school achievement to relationships with siblings and even cleanliness. The hero is usually an excellent student, involved in several extracurricular activities at once, and is sometimes the "teacher’s pet." On the outside this child appears to be highly successful, self-sufficient, and well-adjusted. Underneath this facade however, the family hero feels inadequate, because no matter how "perfect" he or she is, the substance abuser continued to drink or use drugs. The family hero shouldered the responsibility of taking care of everyone. Their self-worth required the approval of others. It was their job to make the family look good. And when they fall short, they feel like they have failed.

The Scapegoat: The opposite of the family hero is the scapegoat. The scapegoat is the child who acts out for attention, and so accepts the family’s blame for its problems. The acting out might include abuse of alcohol or other drugs, behavior problems, truancy or delinquency, or poor school performance. In the classroom, the scapegoat often gets into trouble because he or she is aggressive and doesn’t accept authority well. Scapegoats act upon their feelings of anger, hurt and rejection.

The Lost Child: The lost child is quiet, withdrawn and aloof. Lost children do not draw attention to themselves because they do not want to burden the family. Because they are so often overlooked, they feel lonely, depressed and rejected. They frequently have difficulty connecting with others and prefer to be alone. The lost child may be perceived by other youngsters as anti-social. Because they try so hard to stay invisible, they are often overlooked by people who might be able to help them

The Mascot: The mascot is most frequently the youngest child. The mascot’s job is to be cute and humorous. They provide an escape from painful events by entertaining everyone. The mascot is the class clown and may be admired by classmates for making class fun. While mascots use their role to protect themselves from the family dysfunction, they feel helpless, confused and frightened because they don’t know how to communicate honestly.



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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-19-08 09:40 AM
Response to Original message
7. Would Kubler-Ross' Steps Fit In Here
Edited on Wed Nov-19-08 09:41 AM by Me.
Not worried about Obama and his decisions at this point, am willing to let that play out for a year before I get too hopped up. Congress! Now that's a different matter. Will be working to get some of those Dinos the hell out of there.
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-19-08 03:20 PM
Response to Original message
9. Kick
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-19-08 06:09 PM
Response to Original message
11. What is so interesting is that people who are criticizing Obama
for using so many Clinton aids in building up his administration


are mirror images of the same dysfunctional people you will find at freepers
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-19-08 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Opposites are not mirror images.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-19-08 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Interesting.
I've never visited the freeper site, and really don't have any opinion of them. I tend to avoid DU threads that focus on them.

I am not really surprised by some of the things that I've read here in the last week, but the amount of the nonsense is exactly what gets in our way as a progressive/liberal community. It's not the freepers.
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