SFChronicle: Skeptics Now Admit that the Killian Documents Are Legit

[indyjones1938]

It's worth it to read the whole article. It brings up some new and very interesting evidence that points to the memos' authenticity. In the meantime, can somebody please email Joshua Micah Marshall and tell him to stop drinking the Kool Aid?




Philip Bouffard, a forensic document examiner in Ohio who has analyzed typewritten samples for 30 years, had expressed suspicions about the documents in an interview with the New York Times, one in a wave of similar media reports. But Bouffard told the Globe Friday that after further study, he now believed the documents could have been prepared on an IBM Selectric Composer typewriter available at the time.

Bouffard, the Ohio document specialist, said that he had first dismissed the Bush documents because the letters and formatting of the memos did not match any of the 4,000 samples in his database. But Friday, Bouffard said that he had not considered the IBM Selectric Composer. Once he compared the memos to Selectric Composer samples, Bouffard said, his view shifted.

In the Times interview, Bouffard had also questioned whether the military would have used the Composer, a large machine. But Friday he provided a document indicating that as early as April 1969 the Air Force had completed service testing for the Composer, possibly in preparation for purchasing the typewriters.

Those who doubt the documents say those typographical elements would not have been commonly available at the time of Bush's service. But such characters were common features on electric typewriters of that era, the Globe determined through interviews with specialists and examination of documents from the period. In fact, one such raised "th," used to describe a Guard unit, the 187th, appears in a document in Bush's official record the White House made public this year.



http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2004/09/11/MNGO68NEKR1.DTL

[rfranklin]

1. So the documents released by the White House are forgeries???!!!

That's the only explanation I can see here.






(Just Jokin'!)

[salvorhardin]

2. ROFL!

Philip Bouffard, a forensic document examiner in Ohio who has analyzed typewritten samples for 30 years had expressed suspicions about the documents in an interview with the New York Times

But Friday, Bouffard said that he had not considered the IBM Selectric Composer. Once he compared the memos to Selectric Composer samples, Bouffard said, his view shifted.

Excuse me, but you're a forensic document examiner who has been analyzing typewritten samples for 30 years and you never considered a widely used typewriter made by the company in office equipment at the time?

Wow. The arrogance to lie so boldly is an awesome thing.

[StClone]

3. In Thirty years you tend to forget things

:eyes:

[indyjones1938]

4. It's really disgusting

And just as much media spin as it is pure arrogance.

The wolves at NBC, NYT and ABC were so anxious to "debunk" the memos that they searched out any "expert" they could find who would prop up their accusations. How much do you want to bet that they went through a dozen or more experts who insisted the documents were authentic before they finally lucked out and found the impressionable Mr. Bouffard?

The funny thing is, from everything I've read here and elsewhere, the IBM Selectrics were some of the most common typrewriters in the 1960s-70s. How the hell could a typewriting "expert" not be familiar with them?

[BootinUp]

5. The "composer" model was not one of the common ones

It was made and priced primarily for publishing.

[indyjones1938]

7. n/t

Then he should have kept his mouth shut unless he was absolutely certain that his statement was correct.

And I find this highly suspect:

"But Friday he provided a document indicating that as early as April 1969 the Air Force had completed service testing for the Composer, possibly in preparation for purchasing the typewriters.

It seems incredible to me, given the bureaucracy and disorganization associated with military recordkeeping, that Mr Bouffard was able to find this "smoking gun" document in a period of under twenty-four hours. I'm obviously not questioning the veracity of this document, but questioning instead its provenance. Something tells me that our Mr. Bouffard knew of this document's existance long before Friday.

[salvorhardin]

15. Maybe he reads DU?

It was posted on here. Unfortunately, it's a Word document and looks like something someone just typed up to me. Not exactly a primary source.

[girl gone mad]

8. IBM leased these machines.

Maybe the AF was getting a really good deal on bulk leasing?

[salvorhardin]

6. Well, to be fair

the Composer was a much higher-end model and not as widely used. However, I don't think it would be uncommon for a general's office that is likely to put out a lot of paper to have one. The regular selectrics were everywhere.

My only question remaining with any of this is why did CBS not find out who Killian's secretary was at the time, and try to locate her for comment on the actual technology that was available? Failing that, they could have sought out other secretaries from the period who worked in the TANG. Maybe I'm just being an armchair quarterback, but that is one of the first things I would have done in trying to verify the authenticity of the document in question.

[indyjones1938]

13. Something mentioned earlier

I think Dan Rather obviously has other documents from Killian's personal files. They're his trump card, his ace in the hole - so he's going to hold them for as long as he can. They're the unimpeachable proof to which CBS alluded in its statement.

So, given the existence of other, unassociated Killian documents, finding a secretary is really a moot point. And besides, it's entirely possible that Killian just typed these memos up himself. At least one - the "Cover Your Ass" memo - is something he clearly wanted to keep private when he wrote it. In fact, since this was a private memo rather than an official military document, it's possible that Killian just typed this out at home, off the cuff. So that begs the question...

What if Rather has the actual IBM Selectric, stored away in Killian's attic since his death in 1984? :tinfoilhat:

[girl gone mad]

14. Secretaries never tell.

My mom was a PA in that era. Keeping the boss' secret was in your job description. There is nothing in those memos to incriminate Killian. I can't think of a single reason for him to keep it from his secretary.

[goclark]

32. His wife is solidly behind the Lie

She has already made a statement that he didn't know how to type.

She would not have let anyone into her house.
Well, maybe she would let Rove in. :(

[RevCheesehead]

39. if Rather had the typewriter, freepers would claim HE forged the docs.

[Warpy]

9. Male great experts had secretaries to do the grunt work

of typing up all their tape recorded work. This guy may have been a genius on analyzing worn type face, but it's obvious he doesn't know shit about the daily nitty gritty operation of typewriters.

Christ, why didn't they ask a WOMAN? Afraid of the truth?

[jfalchion]

11. yes

[TomClash]

10. It's true.

Everybody is an "expert" in everything and all "experts" are corrupt.

[SoCalDemocrat]

37. I came to this conclusion immediately

How is it I figured out it was a Selectric the first day the story broke, after some minimal google searching into typewriter capabilities? I don't have any forensics training and I figured it out. But this expert didn't even CONSIDER it?

FYI when I posted on the Hannity forum that it was an IBM Selectric after the story broke, they banned my account.

[girl gone mad]

12. I e-mailed JMM..

earlier this morning.

The memos could be forgeries, but we aren't talking Hitler Diaries here. The jusr is definitely still out, and the story is true, regardless.

[Dogmudgeon]

16. More evidence

Take a look at the original memo:


Note carefully the baselines of the letters. Some of them appaear to be raised ever-so-slightly. That is what happens when someone is typing very fast -- even with a highly responsive electric typewriter like a Selectric I or a Selectric Composer. This is especially noticable with the abbreviation "IAW AFM 35-13" -- the I in IAW is raised just after the right parenthesis. Since there is no space between the parenthesis and the I, it's fair to assume the typist was typing fast and a little sloppy.

Let me brag a little here. I'm an MSWord developer, I know it inside out, and I've worked with several versions since 1994. I've also worked with WordPerfect since version 4.2 for DOS. Yes, you can make a Word doc look just like a typed document, complete with baseline glitches, but it would be a major project, and you'd need a developer with at least as much cross-technology experience as I have (I also used to work with Selectrics and hand-composited newsletters in the 1970s and 1980s) to "artistically" play with kerning and spacing. It would also require a fanatical attention to detail.

Someone who took the time to tweak the "errors" would make sure that the font being used either did (for a good counterfeit) or didn't (for a "bustable" counterfeit) have a clone at all -- no ifs, ands, or buts. Right now, we don't know. We suspect there was a clone of the original Times Roman, and that it made it to a Selectric type ball.

It would, in fact, be much easier to get an old Selectric Composer and a type-ball that cloned Times Roman. There are still plenty of them around, and they can be bought on E-Bay. I strongly suspect, in the event the document is fraudulent, that it was actually written on such a system. But I am far from certain that it's a fraud.

It's a wacky document, and non-standard, to say the least, but if it's legit, it was probably written by a reservist or Guardsman who was less-than-familiar with military SOP. I'd wager to say that the typist was an executive secretary who enrolled in the Guard to save up for B-school.

I suspect it's legitimate. But I'm just a little biased.

Why the hell don't they just consult a couple of forensic document experts -- especially from Europe, where you'd assume they don't have any overt agendas to pursue?

This election is going to get seriously "drrrty".

--bkl

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

18. whats really wacky about this particular document

is that it looks like its supposed to be "official correspondence", not a CYA memo...

....as such it would have been on stationary with a "pre-printed" letterhead, not a typewritten one.

And the Air Force protocol would be that the signed copy would go to the sendee..in this case Lt Bush. File copys would have been stamped "Signed", and then filed. The date would have been date-stamped, not typed.

So youd have to assume that Kilian made a xerox of the actual copy w. his sig for his personal file, not a xerox of the file copy.

There are some big formatting mistakes, too....

[Walt Starr]

19. It WAS offical correspondence

Two of teh four were official documents. One was a document of Bush's conversation with Killian. The fourth was the CYA memo.

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

21. yeah thats what I figured...

I expected the private CYA memos to be more informal

But for the "official" ones seeing that typewritten letterhead was suprising for me....

[Jack Rabbit]

26. That's not unusual

Although my official MOS was 98J, I did some work as a clerk/typist for my Army unit in Korea (simply because we didn't have a real one).

More often, memos were written on something called a disposition form (DF, form 2204), more or less a form to be used where people in the real world would use a blank piece of paper (leave it to military bureaucrats to come up with that bright idea), but I digress.

Undoubtedly, the unit didn't have its own formal stationary and thus it was hand typed as we see it here. There would be more cause to be suspicious if there were a formal preprinted letterhead.

[Dogmudgeon]

23. Errors made (if not a forgery)

A new, young, inexperienced part-timer, probably a non-flying member of the TXANG, clueless as to protocol.

A lot of military documents don't follow protocol. The idea is to get the work done, not to get it perfect. Standards of perfection are set by the unit or base commander. As young Lt Bush's career reflects, the TXANG was not too keen on dotting is and crossing ts.

I'm becoming more sure that by early in the week, a genuine Selectric type ball will be found that has a cloned Times Roman typeface and the appropriate superscripts and any little errors that may show up in the memo.

Now, as for the damage this fiasco has caused ...

--bkl

[GaryL]

24. You're an MSWord developer?

Do you have time too hear a few compaints from me?

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

[Dogmudgeon]

25. Go right ahead

If they're common problems, post 'em here, or start a new thread, because there are a lot of Word users here.

If they're weird and idiosyncratic, send me a message.

--bkl

[Longhorn]

17. What gets me is the "th" myth was debunked here on DU almost

immediately when someone posted a copy of one of Bush's UNDISPUTED military records which also had the "th" typed in as a superscript. Also, the memo in question here has an "st" which does NOT appear in superscript, which adds credibility to the argument that the custom typing ball had a "111th" character but not a special character for "st" or if it did, that the typist didn't realize it. Why supercript one and not the other?

[Norquist Nemesis]

20. The WH knew it. That's why they're now attacking Staudt.

It's the very same tactic they've had all along. Destroy any one that is a threat. Not raise suspicions, but absolutely without questions destroy them.

They're doing it to Staudt now. That's why they want to know who 'experts' are. That's why they want to know who 'the sources' are. They're desperate to keep everything covered up and the only way to do it is to destroy the credibility of the messenger(s).

[goodhue]

22. indeed

But yet skeptics still persist even here on DU. Sad.

[jfalchion]

28. "But yet skeptics still persist even here on DU. Sad."

Skepticism is always correct. That's why I'm a Democrat. There's less to be skeptical about. Altruism removes suspicion about the profit motive.

:kick:

[goodhue]

29. "Skepticism is always correct."

Not always. Skepticism about the moon landing or the holocaust for example is not correct. Skepticism based on right wing blogs and faux news is also not correct IMHO. Considering the source is always correct.

[geek tragedy]

27. Good for Bouffard

He was completely wrong in the first instance in an obvious way, but at least he ha the integrity to admit he was wrong.

But what kind of database doesn't include the Selectric?

[Philostopher]

33. It wasn't a garden-variety Selectric.

The Selectric Composer was a typesetting machine. However, I found a link, as did others here on DU, to a memo online at an AFB in Alabama from 1969 that had a procurement list of office equipment it was considering, including at least one Selectric Composer. As I've pointed out before, an organization like the DoD that's been accused of buying $500 toilets seats and $800 Mr. Coffees surely can't pretend it wouldn't spend more money than was necessary to procure office equipment that might have been a shade more than was required to do the job. Not only that, but the Selectric Composer did have many typesetting features regular typewriters (including the office-level Selectric) didn't have -- but if you're doing a hundred forms a week during wartime, perhaps a case could be made for buying a machine that would take a little more training, but justify the personnel. What high-ranking officer in his right mind turns down a better-trained secretary/admin assistant? He's not paying for that person out of pocket, nor is he paying out of pocket for the training. It's not as unlikely as they want us to think, in other words, that the TANG might have had a machine that was more complex than necessary and required more training.

[troublemaker]

30. This is a BOSTON GLOBE ARTICLE Please change your headline

[msongs]

31. military typists are expected to....

write and type in an exact way...spacing etc. like if they wrote sloppy pages they would be reprimanded. sheesh

[rumguy]

34. good article

[IndianaGreen]

35. CBS needs to disclose its sources and we need experts to look at...

the original documents, rather than one that has been faxed and copied several times.

The format of the memos do not conform to military correspondence standards anyway (the date, tittle, no Office/Organization Symbol), and COL Killian's family has challenged their authenticity. There are enough questions to justify an independent media inquiry.

[SoCalDemocrat]

36. turn out the lights the party's over

Now will all the other news networks geton their knees and beg CBS for forgiveness? Will they NOW run apoligies and run actual investigations into the CONTENT of those reports?

They damn well better.

[StopThief]

38. Bouffard says the Boston Globe misquoted him. . . .

and that he still doubts the authenticity of the documents.