Kerry still has not convinced the country he has a better plan for Iraq.

[hansolsen]

If Kerry continues to run on the idea that he can execute Shrub's plan better than Shrub can, we will lose and we will deserve to lose. It doesn't need to be this way; to coin a phrase, we can do better:

Here is what I want him to say.

QUOTE
Fellow citizens, hear me: I served in Vietnam and experienced the combat of war. I saw people killed and I killed enemy soldiers. I learned some things from that experience that will profoundly effect the orders I will issue as Commander and Chief. I will keep our soldiers safe from the folly of war. I will not send them on combat missions with no clear objective. I will not send them into battle where they cannot tell friend from foe. I will not ask them to fight for people who will not fight for themselves. I will never send American soldiers on a combat mission with rules of engagement where they cannot fire unless fired upon. I will never ask young soldiers to risk their lives because old men in high places cannot admit their mistakes.

I will go to Baghdad myself and I will meet with the leaders of the Iraqi insurgency. I will end this war on Iraq. I will not fire another shot in that war. I will hold an immediate national referendum in Iraq to determine if the Iraqi people want us to stay. If the people of Iraq want us out of there, I will bring the troops home. If a clear majority of Iraqis want us to stay, I will demand they stand along side American troops and prove it. If they refuse or shirk that duty, I will still bring our troops home. If they want us to stay and will stand with us, I will keep American forces there as true peace keepers.

I believe that God helps those who help themselves, and so do I. That principle will guide my policy in iraq. Please give me your vote and your confidence. Please trust that what I learned in the rice fields of South Vietnam is relevant to what must be done now. I ask for your trust. Quote.

Fellow bloggers: Will this mesage resonate?

[Fionn]

1. Have you been watching "The American President" again?

"I will go to Baghdad myself and I will meet with the leaders of the Iraqi insurgency. I will end this war on Iraq. I will not fire another shot in that war. I will hold an immediate national referendum in Iraq to determine if the Iraqi people want us to stay. If the people of Iraq want us out of there, I will bring the troops home. If a clear majority of Iraqis want us to stay, I will demand they stand along side American troops and prove it. If they refuse or shirk that duty, I will still bring our troops home. If they want us to stay and will stand with us, I will keep American forces there as true peace keepers."

I don't think the secret serice would allow him go to Baghdad, somehow.

[blondeatlast]

13. I was about to say that myself... nt

[latebloomer]

2. Sounds great to me!!

I am so disappointed that he has not come out and made a clearcut stand on this.

"How do you ask a man to be the last man to die for a mistake?"

[Prodemsouth]

3. No- we will surely lose if he says that. I am not saying we will deserve

to lose like you do for advocating the postion. I, in fact, agree that would be the right thing to do. But we will lose if Kerry says what you want him to say. It will only make Bush look like the stronger guy on the war on terrorism. We are talking about the USA here.

[mdmc]

6. everything will make Bush look stronger

w does not waffle - he is clear cut (like our forests!)

Can Kerry compete?

[hansolsen]

7. Warriors look strongest when they go out alone on the field of battle

in front of their troops and confront the enemy mano o mano. This is all about showing strength.

[mdmc]

4. well, God bless you

our party is just a shell of the GOP, methinks. Nov. 2 might be a sad day indeed.

Go Kerry ! I was a deanie, but I think Kerry has the best shot at beating Bush. Too bad dems CAN'T campaign the way the pugs do.

[hansolsen]

8. I too am a Dean supporter and believe his message on Iraq is the right

message. Kerry will sometims say that Iraq, "is the wrong war at the wrong time, in the wrong place," but then drop it the next day. He never draws the logical conclusion -- if it is the wrong war, then what will he do differently.

[Norquist Nemesis]

5. I don't think telling people he will meet with "the insurgency"

is a good idea, frankly. He already is taking enough hits over meeting with the enemy 30+ years ago in France.

[hansolsen]

10. You might be right, but Kerry would command the news headlines for a week

he said some of the things I suggest:

1. Change the rules of engagement -- never send soldiers into battle with rues of engagement where they cannot shoot unless fired upon. Doesn't that make sense? Would that appeal to the mothers of soldiers?? Wouldn't it appeal to right wing nut cases too??

2. Bring osama bin Laden in for a war council under a white flag. Show he is not afraid to meet the enemy face to face. Shrub would die a million deaths before he would let Osama have a public stage to tell the world his side of the story.

Osama has some valid grievances with the West. That is what Shrub wants to keep buried. I say shine a bright white light on it.

[babylonsister]

9. Big part of country doesn't WANT to be convinced

There are repugs who will vote for Shrub regardless of what Kerry says. I have 2 stupid brothers, both retired from the CG, who think Shrub can do no wrong. I wonder whatever happened to their minds; also wonder if they're advocates of Fox and Limbaugh. The mind boggles!

[hansolsen]

11. Ask them if they really approve of Shrub's rules of engagement where

our soldiers cannot fire unless fired upon.

[xchrom]

12. all i need to know is how bad bush is waging this war

if we want more of the mess we have, more american dead, more americans killing innocent iraqis, the shame of torture, mutilated bodies in the name of a lie....
THAT'S the message!

[hansolsen]

16. That's not good enough for most voters. They want to know what Kerry

will do differently. If Kerry can't answer that we will lose.

[NJCher]

14. two words

"Out. Now."


Cher

[hansolsen]

15. Out now is weak, End the war on Iraq, let Iraqis decide if we stay,

is much stronger, IMO.

[spanone]

17. Better plan than WHAT???? Bush has NO plan.

[hansolsen]

19. Well, yes he does. His plan is too keep doing what he has been doing.

So far Kerry has not said anything convincing that what he would do differently would make a big difference and produce a substantively different result.

His idea of bringing in more International support sounds weak because it is so implausible.

[gulliver]

18. I don't think it will resonate -- the plan part.

The first paragraph will resonate fine, but it should be the last paragraph.

I think Kerry should point out that Bush painted himself into a corner. Bush can't withdraw because it would be the end of the Republican party. Allies aren't going to help a Bush presidency because they know that Bush can't withdraw. I.e., with a Bush presidency, the allies have witnessed America carrying the whole burden and they know that Bush is not in a political position to put it down. So the allies get a free ride under Bush.

Kerry could assess the situation (with other patriots like Clark, Zinni, and even Powell) and eventually decide that Iraq is too screwed up. Kerry could tell the allies that this thing doesn't work with Americans carrying all of the weight. They either help put an international face on this thing, or we leave.

This would only happen if Iraq deteriorated further into a Turkish/Kurdish war in the North and a Greater Iran (with civil war) in the south. That is where it is going to go, IMO, and Bush is naked as a jaybird if that happens. Kerry isn't.

Voter for Kerry. He has options that Bush the War Idiot doesn't have.

[hansolsen]

20. Kerry can't just say he will "assess the situation." The situation is at

hand. If Kerry wins this election he will own Iraq on Nov 3, 2004. The country and the whole world will turn to him and ask, "what now?"

George Bush will be a lame duck with few options. Kerry will have great influence as the President elect. He needs to decide now what he wants to say to the world on Nov 3rd, 2004.

And in fact he needs a rip roaring, forward looking strategy for Iraq in about three weeks when the first debate is held. If all he has to say is I will have more options and I will assess the situation, Shrub will hand him his ass on a platter, IMHO. Ask Al Gore.

Forcing John Kerry to make up his mind and state a policy for Iraq would be a soul searing experience for him, and one that is long overdue.

If Jim Leherer turns to Kerry in the first debate and asks him what he will do differently in Iraq, and Kerry doesn't have something new, crisp, concise, and bold to say, this election will be over at that moment. Mark my words.

[gulliver]

21. Kerry has a stated policy on Iraq.

Look it up. He has stated over and over that he will fight to win in Iraq. The difference is that Kerry will have the ability to bring allies into the equation.

Bush can't promise to bring in allies. Bush is losing allies right and left. Our allies know that Bush has no choice but to spend American lives and treasure until we are bled dry. Bush can't withdraw, even if Iraq becomes futile and doomed (as it is becoming). Bush must leave the troops in place no matter what happens because to do otherwise would be to seal the fate of the GOP.

In addition to Bush's political conflict of interest with our country, Bush turns off our allies. He is the most hated president our country has ever had. People worldwide are fed up with Cheneyism.

[hansolsen]

22. Will he still "fight to win" if a majority of the Iraqi people want us to

hell out of there? What would be wrong with making the first vote in Iraq a vote to determine if they want us there or not?

How can we "win" if the majority of Iraqi people give sanctuary to the insurgents? And what makes you believe any foreign nation is going to send any troops to help Kerry -- that is a fantasy.

The mission in Iraq is all wrong. Anyone who doesn't believe that should vote for Bush.

[gulliver]

27. I think you are still missing the point.

The point is that Bush can't leave Iraq regardless of what happens. If anything short of a "flower of Democracy in the middle east" has taken root, Bush can't leave. He has created a problem that he can't get out of without spending tons of American money and spilling tons of American blood. To save himself and the GOP, Bush has no choice but to throw money and lives at Iraq. Kerry has options.

Bush's is the fantasy. If he had told us there were no WMDs and no connections to Al Qaeda before the war but that he wanted to invade anyway because "Saddam is a madman" and we want to create a flower of democracy in the middle east ... he would have been laughed at.

Look at us now.

We can't win if Bush is president. He is too hated, and his international credibility is completely gone thanks to the failure to find WMDs and Abu Ghraib. By far our best chance of winning in Iraq is with Kerry as president. With Bush as president, America has to continue going it alone, paying all of the bills, having its soldiers killed and wounded essentially until hell freezes over or until Bush's fantasy of a flower of democracy emerges. The GOP's continued existence depends on it. Our allies know this and they hate Bush to boot. They won't help Bush.

Who really knows if Kerry can get troops from our allies? You certainly don't. I think he can. Our allies aren't going to help Bush. A change of presidents to one who doesn't spit on our friends from the minute he takes office just might help. A change to a president who doesn't have a political party survival conflict of interest with America might help too.

[hansolsen]

28. I agree with your assessment of Shrub's plan and the prospects for that

plan to succeed -- and I believe a slight majority of country is inclined to think Iraq is a mess and Shrub's plan will not succeed either. So there is hope. If Kerry were offering what people see as a practical alternative, Bush would be in big trouble.

And you and I can agree that in the long run Bush is in trouble in Iraq, no question there. But the only thing that matters in this election is the next 7 weeks, not the long run. The country is obviously not convinced that Kerry's clean slate and charming smile will actually get allies to suddenly contribute 10s of thousands of new troops, and even if they did, they are not convinced the Iraqi people would be any happier to have German troops in the Holy Lands than American troops.

The key plank in Kerry's Iraq plan is a loser with the electorate and with me. I do not believe it is a practical solution to anything. And I am not alone. I don't know of a single media bigfoot who has ever said out loud that Kerry's "plan" makes any sense.

Furthermore, I sure wouldn't want to go into those debates with what Kerry has been using so far.

[Carolinian]

23. Let's hear Bush's plan first.

[hansolsen]

24. Bush's plan is "more of the same". Kerry's plan is (hum a hum a.)

Bush is under no obligation to present any more of a plan than the one he is working now. He can simply assert that the difficulties will fade away as soon as the "towel heads" see he is reelected and give up.

[formernaderite]

25. You realize that the "average" voter is looking for an answer.....

...about 20 seconds in length....and consistency. I don't mean flip flops...just using the same "consistent" message day after day. Kerry's too far along in the campaign to be testing the best message. I'm no gloom and doomer..but a focus group early on would have told them this.

[hansolsen]

26. In 20 seconds he can say the first vote in Iraq will be to decide if they

want us there.

In 20 seconds he can say he will issue new rules of engagement that make sense.

In 20 seconds he can say he will not ask American soldiers to fight for people who will not fight for themselves.

That's one minute that will turn this election on a dime.

[formernaderite]

29. Excellent.....paging the Kerry team...

eom

[NJCher]

30. Good points in post 26

Very reasonable way to put the concept to the American people. I particularly think your point about fighting for people who won't fight for themselves is a winnter. Even the RW-ers I know would go for that.


Cher

[Southern Patriot]

31. I partly agree with you.

Kerry's biggest failing is that he's not offering a dramatically diffent alternative.

The Pubs have convinced people that Europeans will not help us. Saying that he'll train the Iraqi troops faster is hardly convincing.

I don't have a solid answer but Kerry has GOT to produce one.

Richard Nixon ran on a "secret" plan to end the Vietnam war. It turns out that voters were desperate enough to buy it. The "secret" was that he didn't have a plan except to slowly pullout while "Vietnamizing" the war. It was all a deadly farce.

It's a different day now and Kerry needs something more concrete than smoke and mirrors.