The 04 May 1972 Memo Is Authentic

[ruggerson]

Do your own test.

Go here:

http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/BushGuardmay4.pdf

And print out the memo.

Then type it into Word on your computer and see if you come up with same memo with the same spacing and line breaks.

I did it and it didn't correspond. I don't know what these rightwingers are yammering about when they say it was done on Word.

[gristy]

1. They certainly have not been proven NOT to be authentic

and, as CBS has been emphasizing, there is considerable corroborating evidence. However, just because you can't duplicate the memo in Word proves nothing, IMO.

[Spinzonner]

4. True

Nothing prevents a forger from using the technology of the time to commit forgery.

[Prodemsouth]

6. Wait a minute another post is saying that a source sited by the Freepers

is saying she could produce this on Word.

[LynnTheDem]

13. She's wrong

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/9/10/34914/1603

[Prodemsouth]

15. You don't have to tell me that Lyn,n we need a serious effort against the

cables, not just Fox but CNN and the whole whore gang, ABC and NBC too. If they are giving credence to anyone claiming these are forgeries then they should do their own investigation. KNOW WHAT they haven't got the Fuckin balls to do it, because they are afraid CBS is right, they know CBS is right. That is why they are going for this wimpy he said she said approach to the story.

[girl gone mad]

19. Yep.

Here is a graphic illustration. One of the paragraphs was typed using Word, one on an early 70s typewriter. The last is a superimposition of the two paragraphs.

[ruggerson]

20. Can you try that again

[girl gone mad]

22. Fixed it.

It should show up now. My ISP's firewall keeps me from being able to see the image on DU myself, so let me know if it still isn't working. Thx.

[Prodemsouth]

2. Notice that the White House is not going after that the notion memos are

authentic- if they knew they were not they would have done so by now.
WAKE UP!THEY ARE REAL. CASE CLOSED.

[troublemaker]

10. No. If it's a Rove-op they'll provide plenty of rope and stay quiet

The WH acting as if the docs are real has as little information content as "honoring Senator Kerry's service."

[Prodemsouth]

17. You give him way too much credit. Rove is very skilled but he is not

one to wait around. The media owners have a lot riding on this one that is where we need to be looking- this he said she said approach is very wimpy jounalism- if any of them thought CBS was really wrong they would have produced a slam dunk investigation jounalism story already.

[Spinzonner]

3. VRWEC

Vast Right Wing Echo Chamber

[SnohoDem]

8. Exactly.

They are SO good at changing the subject. We really need to figure out how to do that.

[Spinzonner]

11. Probably not possible

unless you're willing to embrace their intellectual and factual dishonesty and duplicate their numbers and access to media.

[spanone]

5. They are not disputing content only authenticity.

Hmmmmmm.

[Dr Fate]

7. Bush should hold a press conference and staighten all this out...

...unless he is hiding somthing, that is.

[Brundle_Fly]

9. MS WORD

Word was created to imitate the look and feel of a typewriter.

MS Engineers said and "heralded" it as one of there greatest accomplishments. you could take any document from 1961 on and say it "might" have been created in a word processor, that's what they were made to do.

I, of course, have lots more faith in 60 minutes than I do in this, the current administration.

[Brundle_Fly]

14. my test.

I did the test in word perfect, and in word, the subscripting is much different. The only way this could have been forged, would have been to create it on a typewriter, although it doesn't seem that anyone is looking into that possibility.

IMHO this had to be created on a typewriter. That still leads to the possibility of a forgery, but lessens the likelyhood.

The word processor theory is debunked. Why isnt the news covering that?

My experience is as a 15 year professional digital artist, debunked a few frauds, created more than one.


My latest forgery.... :)

[ruggerson]

16. I agree, but

Faux news and others are saying that you can reproduce this in Word. In Times New Roman. So, I tried, and they're obviously lying because a non-expert can see the differences.

[Prodemsouth]

18. Great Seth, Welcome to DU, your first couple of post scared me a little

we have so may visits from freeperville this morning. Anyho- welcome to DU!

[vetwife]

21. Seth? Is that you ..The Seth I admire?

Vetwife

[Brundle_Fly]

30. not the seth you admire.

Not yet! ;)

[vetwife]

31. Well there is another board a Seth used to post some on

and Mr. Seth had some hysterical posts ! I don't go there anymore..I love this board and I will welcome you to DU !

[LynnTheDem]

12. Pixels

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/9/10/34914/1603

[gollygee]

23. I was a secretary for quite a few years and it looks like it was done (m)

on a typewriter to me.

First, in one place - at the top - the th is done standard, but in the body it's done superscript. Also, st in 1st Lt. is also not superscript. Word would automatically superscript in all cases, not just one. A secretary who was busy sure might go back and forth without thinking of it.

The other thing that really stands out to me is his name under the signature. The "el" in colonel is jumped up. Typewriters do this but word processors don't.

It's important to remember that people studied old typewriter fonts pretty carefully when they developed computer fonts - they really tried to copy the old typewriter fonts well. It shouldn't suprise anyone that it looks similar to a computer font.

Anyway, if it's a forgery it's a forgery done on a typewriter, not on a computer.

[TreasonousBastard]

24. Why bother to do this?

I don't for the life of me understand why a CBS PDF is assumed by everyone to be identical to the original.

The original was scanned and converted to PDF, with who knows what in between. At least two conversions were made to create what CBS is giving us. Having created a fair number of PDF documents myself, I am well aware of some of the wierdness in the conversion to PDF.

The original is a 30 year old yellowed piece of paper with type impressions on it. Possibly even a carbon copy. It's age alone would have been easy to authenticate, and any of those retired forensic typewriter experts would have known soon enough what it was typed on.

Was CBS working with a copy of the original? a Xerox? Then there are even more problems with authenticating it, and it would take a lot of time for a real expert to do the job.

A screenshot of a PDF of a scan possibly of a Kinko's special? This is going to mean something?

Give me a break.

[Brundle_Fly]

25. Thanks!

I just signed up.

I watched the medals thread very intently a few weeks ago, whatever became of that? Can that be added to the new evidence of Bush's idiocisms? Or did it not pan out? I was really rooting for Walt.

No Freeper here, Pure Canadian Liberal, just wanting to help out the world.

I couldnt fine a decent photo of the bush bus, so this is a crappy converted greyhound.

[yardwork]

32. That's hilarious! Welcome to DU, Seth!

I have the feeling that this is the beginning of a wonderful relationship.

[karnac]

26. The type looks more like Palatino, Not times roman

Different Kerneling.

Like this...

http://img41.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img41&image=60minbusted.swf

Karnac

[Elidor]

27. It's definitely not Palatino

Compare the capital 'P' in the word 'Phone' from the May 19 document:

http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/BushGuardmay19.pdf

with the distinctive capital P of Palatino at:

http://www.fonts.com/findfonts/detail.asp?pid=201210

Kerning can be varied simply by justification.

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Survivor97]

29. Something's Not Right...

with the May 4 memo. Use the CBS link: http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/BushGuardmay4.pdf

Enlarge it to 200%. Then look at both statements. Compare the letters on both. It appears to me that they were not typed on the same typewriter.

Look at the "F" in the word flight. Does not match the other upper case F's.

Check the lower case "p" s. Different.

The y's, the m's, the i's,...all different.

Had anyone mentioned this before? I don't even know what it might indicate...???

[yardwork]

33. How'd you get the letters to jump up and down on the horizontal line?

My printer won't do that. It prints all the letters on the same smooth horizontal line. These memos were typed on a typewriter.

That doesn't prove that they aren't forgeries - they could have been forged on a typewriter. But this silly suggestion that they were produced on a word processor has been thoroughly debunked. There are about a dozen threads here about it.

[girl gone mad]

36. Show us the proof. n/t

[gollygee]

37. Did you go through the trouble of having it superscript part of the time

but not all of the time?

[ContinentalOp]

34. No no no, it's a fake!

I can reproduce the memo exactly using rub-on Letraset fonts. This type of dry-transfer lettering technology wasn't widely available until at least 1973 so the doc must be a forgery.

Sigh... Here I was hoping not to hear about this at all tonight and then I go and kick the thread myself in a feeble attempt at sarcasm :( apologies all around.

[yardwork]

35. LOL! I enjoyed your post!

I think that the freepers are running out of energy on this, sort of like balloons that are leaking the last of their helium. They're just sitting around in the corners, occasionally bouncing up in the air for one last feeble try.

[UglyinLA]

38. Typewriter vs. MS Word. We are going to lose.

The FReepers keep saying that MS word was used.
I decide to finally try it to disprove them.

I took the Heading and typed it into my MS Word. I centerd the document using the centering button.

It matches perfectly.

If we keep saying that these documents are valid, we are going to lose.

[gollygee]

39. But, again, (m)

the document only superscripts PART of the time. I'm betting MS Word superscripted every single time. So it didn't match perfectly.

[enki23]

40. oh boy. another one.

.

[ruggerson]

42. We?

[greenbriar]

43. yea and posting one topic on the first day of your existance on DU

makes you soooo legit.

heck you even use freepers...


we are not amused nor are we dumb.

[colonel odis]

41. freepers keep saying it's fake because they've been told

to say it's fake.

and the more they keep saying it, the more reasonable people are beginning to have doubts.

straight out of the third reich playbook. repeat the lie over and over and over.