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American liberal Donating Member (915 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-13-04 03:50 AM
Original message
Sinking to new lows
This was posted to a nonpartisan message board I subscribe to:

(recieved in an email)

The following was sent out by a retired SF officer. The author, and the authenticity, are unknown, but the sentiments expressed have been seconded by all of the retired soldiers and airmen it has passed through on its way to me.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Anonymous


I'm not worthy to question John Kerry's war record.

Because I don't have one.

I spent the Vietnam War in elementary school. And the four years I was in the Army were all behind a desk. My fort was unofficially known as "Uncle Ben's Rest Home."

So I don't know anything about war.

Though I do know a little bit about men who've been to war. I've been around plenty of those.

Like my step-father.

He got bunged up pretty bad in France. I know that because I saw him in a swimming suit once.

But he never talked about it.

Not once.

If you asked him about the war he'd tell hilarious stories about basic training, or where the guys he served with were from, or how fun it was learning to fly the gliders, or the time they stole the ambulance to go into town and get drunk in France, or a few of the phrases in German he learned. But he'd never actually talk about the war.

Unless he was really drunk.

In which case he still wouldn't talk about it. He'd cry about it. He'd put his head in his arms in the wee hours of the morning and sob to himself about how the men around him were broken and torn when the gliders crash landed into the French countryside.

But that was only once or twice, and that was never about him.

And the little box of medals at the bottom of his footlocker never came out.

It was kind of the same way at the Legion and the VFW. Every day he'd check in at both places, to sign the book and to have a beer, and I would tag along. All those men had been in the service, and most had been in combat, but I never heard a war story.

Lots of Army stories, and Navy stories, sure. About guys they knew and leaves they were on and officers they messed with. But nothing about the war.

It was the same way in the Army.

In my day, it seemed like everybody above staff sergeant or captain had been in Vietnam. I went in 10 years after the war ended but the guys on the second half of their careers had all gone.

You could tell when they wore their dress uniforms.

But that was the only time.

Men didn't talk about what they'd done in the war. They didn't boast of their accomplishments. They didn't brag about their medals. But if you chanced to see them in their dress uniforms, with the rows of service ribbons, you could read their history there, you could see that those who'd done the most spoke of it the least.

Like one of our drill sergeants in basic training.

Buffing the floor in his office one day we saw the service ribbons pinned to his Class A uniform on the coat rack. Comparing them to the poster in the company day room we learned he'd gotten the Silver Star, the Bronze Star and the Purple Heart.

We asked about them and he made us do push-ups for being nosey.

The night before graduation, when he welcomed us as fellow soldiers, we asked him again, we almost pestered him. Finally he relented and gave us two sentences: "I was in a war. I got hurt."

And that's all he'd say.

Kind of like a man I know, who received the Medal of Honor. One night he stood in a long line to shake hands with Colin Powell. The man, because of the nature of the event, wore his medal around his neck.

As he came to Colin Powell the man said, "General, it's an honor to meet you."

And Colin Powell responded, "No, sir - it's an honor to meet you."

Anyway, I know this man, and he's often asked to tell his story, of how he earned the Medal of Honor. And he never does. Oh, he answers, and he talks, and he inspires, and he talks about the war.

But he neglects the part about the lives he saved and the courage he showed, and instead talks about a young Vietnamese man who helped him to safety when his legs were too shot through to hold him anymore.

I don't know anything about war.

But I do know a little bit about men who've gone to war.

And none of them act the way John Kerry does.

None of them brag about, boast of, talk about or otherwise try to benefit from their service. They don't prostitute their time in uniform for personal gain and ambition.

They all modestly and insistently say that they "didn't do anything." They minimize their contributions and put them in the context of the similarly courageous and noble service provided by their comrades.

A true hero doesn't boast.

In fact, he kind of keeps his deeds to himself. Which is what makes John Kerry so different. Which is what makes John Kerry so unbelievable.

I don't know war.

But I do know war heroes.

And he's not one of them.
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American liberal Donating Member (915 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-13-04 03:52 AM
Response to Original message
1. and this was my response
With all due respect, you have posted an unfair characterization of the next President of the United States. Shame on you.

The only reason John Kerry has had to promote and defend his service in Vietnam is because of a group called the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth. Even though every lie told by this group has been exposed as a lie, and three people in the Bush administration have had to resign because of the connection btw. the SBVs and the Bush campaign (which is illegal, BTW), Sen. Kerry has had to stand above the fray and defend, not HIS honor, but the honor bestowed on all veterans who received purple hearts. The SBVs undermined and belittled the contribution thousands of soldiers have made when they attacked Sen. Kerry's service record.

Your post perpetuates the lie, hotmail. It's called character assassination. And until you have walked a mile in his boots, whoever wrote that commentary, and everyone who saw fit to circulate it around the Internet, none of you have the right to judge Sen. Kerry's actions. Shame on you. Regardless of how you feel about Sen. Kerry as a presidential candidate, to publicly denounce him by character assassination is beneath you, IMO. What you have posted is nothing more than negative propaganda instigated by an unscrupulous (without morals) presidential campaign for no other reason than to impugn a worthy opponent. Shame on Karl Rove, too.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-13-04 03:53 AM
Response to Original message
2. damn they are low
Edited on Mon Sep-13-04 03:55 AM by nadinbrzezinski
one thign for sure this kid does not know war, and this letter probably is as true and authentic as a three dollar bill...

oh and tehy are not hot shots they are idiots... they have impuged the service of EVERY Nam vet that has earned a purple heart... hell every vet to ever earn a purple heart
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abrock Donating Member (333 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-13-04 03:57 AM
Response to Original message
3. The problem inherent.
His "war heroes" do not have the national media questioning their service every day for months.

His "war heroes" do not have groups of other veterans scheming to bring you down because of your party affiliation, telling lies about you simply because thats what they do.

His "war heroes" are not national figures, in the spotlight and under the microscope every day for examination and cross examination. Their every move is not questioned. Their every past action is not brought to light. If Kerry had been quiet and 'noble' about his service, it would have simply made him look guilty of covering something up when the Smear Boat Liars started their game.

But most of all:

His "war heroes" are not running for President of the United States. Politicians must endorse themselves to the public every day of their lives. They must show how they are deserving of your support, of your vote, and of your respect. You do not expect a politician who cuts taxes, balances the budget, and lowers crime by 50 percent to 'keep quiet and noble about it' do you? Of course not, that would be silly.

His entire message is based on a concept which does not even apply to this arena, and therefore, is invalid.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-13-04 04:01 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. personal annecdote
Edited on Mon Sep-13-04 04:02 AM by nadinbrzezinski
some years back some people on a board not unlike this one, questioned what I did in somebody else's military... and it was painful....

Some of the things I saw and experienced were questioned and most importantly my honor and my word was questioned.

I cannot even fathom to even try to comprehend how painful, personally, it must have been for Kerry to have his service to his country questioned by a bunch of yahoos. Now why do I bring this up? What the swifties did and these other idiots did, is very similar. Question the service you question the character and the person.

It is character assasination and it is LOW.
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Chili Donating Member (832 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-13-04 04:01 AM
Response to Original message
5. "I'm not worthy to question John Kerry's war record. "
He's right. He's not worthy.

That email is probably making the rounds of all rightwing veterans. There are plenty of veterans supporting John Kerry. That will not sway them.

This is an election. You run on your life's experiences, on your character, on your past, your present, and how you see the future. It's ridiculous to suggest a candidate shouldn't ever mention it... meanwhile, George Bush sputters about being "a war president." Any veteran who grudges John Kerry his veteran's status would vote for Bush even if it were proved he were a cowering deserter.

Oh. Wait.

I'll bet you a steak dinner you can't find one quote of FDR's coming anywhere close to "I'm a war president." Or Harry Truman. Or Abraham Lincoln. One thing George Bush and this man have in common is they're both not worthy.

*rant off*

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abrock Donating Member (333 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-13-04 04:03 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Fuckin' A. *shakes your hand*
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Pachamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-13-04 04:07 AM
Response to Original message
7. Rove has such a way with words...and writing fiction...
...and even better at getting the spin machine to put it out on Blogs and the net to get the lies going and the spin spinning...

Who else is willing to bet this was penned by someone who didn't even have a Stepdaddy?
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dammit905 Donating Member (139 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-13-04 04:07 AM
Response to Original message
8. This is about the phoniest thing I've ever seen.
Holden Caulfield is spinning in his fictional grave.
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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-13-04 04:16 AM
Response to Original message
9. Approximately how many "retired soldiers and airmen" seconded
that Peggy Noonanish garbage on its way to you?
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Julien Sorel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-13-04 04:34 AM
Response to Original message
10. Teddy Roosevelt wasn't a war hero then. Or Eisenhower.
Or Harry Truman. Or George Washington. Or John Kennedy. Or Andrew Jackson. Or Zack Taylor. Or Rutherford Hayes. Or... Well, you get the point. All of these men were either war heroes, or men whose military prowess played a major role in their political careers. But I guess JFK, popping so many pain pills it nearly killed him, just to make it through the day because of injuries he'd suffered in war, wasn't really a war hero. I guess Eisenhower, who ran his campaign largely around his promise to fix Korea, wasn't really a war hero.

Frauds all, these presidents. Now George Bush -- there's a war hero. I never felt safer in my life than I did once I found out George W. Bush used to fly CAP on the U.S. - Mexican border, looking to intercept stray Mexican donkeys and blast them to smithereens.
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yowzayowzayowza Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-13-04 04:51 AM
Response to Original message
11. ... and I don't know anyone...
whoze been to war who would want to be called the WAR president.
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lapfog_1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-13-04 05:20 AM
Response to Original message
12. Such claptrap

third or forth time this one has been around the block...

Sigh.

First off, Kerry didn't talk about his war RECORD or his actions
in war. He did bring his swift boat mates with him to the nomination.
It was the other side that started talking about where he served,
when he served, and how he served, including specifics of how Kerry
killed an enemy soldier. Not Kerry.

Second, I know some war heroes too. My father, for example. Served
in the Navy for the entire WWII. And no, he didn't OFTEN talk about
what he did in the Navy... but if you asked him, he would talk about
the Anzio landing, about how he and another sailor threw a boarding
net over the side of their "tin can" and both of them clambered down
to the water line to fish men from another ship that had been
sunk next to theirs... this while THEIR ship was trying to get away
from the shore batteries and attacking planes. He also talked some
about convoy escort duty in the North Atlantic, and how dangerous
it was just to cross from one part of the ship to another with ice
inches thick everywhere, and slipping meant you were likely
overboard with no chance of survival. So yeah, he did talk about
the war... and so did his Navy buddies.

Third, note that he "knows" someone that won the Congressional
Medal of Honor, and then relates a story of how "honored" Colin
Powell was to meet him... OK, give us a name... there are only about
137 living MOH winners, this should NOT be hard to name that person.
Then it was Powell, not Bush or someone else in the shrubya
administration... why? Because Powell is the ONLY ONE of Shrubya's
"inner circle" to have served in combat. So this story is about
one "warrior" paying complements to another one. And this part
smells of fiction.

This little story has all the earmarks of "urban legend". And
the same validity.
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REP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-13-04 05:57 AM
Response to Original message
13. Spare Me
Edited on Mon Sep-13-04 05:59 AM by REP
So, the Bush campaign wants to talk about Kerry's military service, and when Kerry defends himself, wants to sniff, "That's so unseemly of him to talk about his military record." I think that's the second definition of "chutzpah."

How on earth did we (DUers, Democrats, Kerry campaign, anyone) start talking about Kerry's documented military service? I hate to admit it, but Rover & Co did something quite remarkable to get the collective us to compare Kerry's record to Bush's and end up questioning Kerry's.
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