Oh, help me. My first project here

[moderatepenguin]

apparently needs to be my mother. How the mother of a gay man can want Bush in office I don't know. She argues that everyone was all for going over and kicking ass after 9/11, and it's only now that people are complaining.

I pointed out how incredibly wrong that was, and also explained that Bush's only reaction to realizing how wrong he is was to become even more gung-ho about "liberating" a foreign country that's had nothing to do with us.

I'll have to e-mail her a few things I've found on here, and try to knock some sense into her. I could, however, use a bit more ammo than I have on the way of arguments against Bush that are as non-partisan as we can get. Anything relevant y'all can toss up to a newbie on the boards will be quite helpful.

Let the Intrafamilial Political Games begin...

Thanks!

[Mizmoon]

1. Maybe she feels like I do

in that I did support the attack on Afghanistan. But I didn't get what I was promised. I expected us to do a full-scale Marshall Plan there - to build Afghanistan into the envy of the region. Not only would it display our might, but our compassion. It would have also protected us from terrorists. But NooooooooOOOOooooo ... dubya went and spent it on some crazy Iraq adventure.

Remind her of what was promised when everyone supported the Afghan War, and what was actually delivered.

[babylonsister]

2. Might want to mention world-wide animosity

towards the US as a result of Bush*Co and their bellicose ways. NO ONE supports the US as a result of their hawkish ways though all countries supported the US post-9/11. This fact frightens me as we cannot and should not want to go it alone. The fact that we have to 'go it' at all against Iraq is also wrong; Bush*Co created this war- Arseholes!

[funky_bug]

3. News from the frontlines, or how my co-worker is converting a Bushie

I have the most outrageously retarded boss in the world. He is a racist, a biggot, and a chauvenist (sp?). He served in the military and did the whole 'Nam thing. His fondest memories are his times in service, and often tells stories of dallying with the locals (if you get my drift.) He said to me, not long ago, that he "wanted to vote Democrat this year, but can't stand that Kerry guy and what he did when he came back from Vietnam." Stunned, I shook my head and explained to him that if he's dealing with the lesser of two evils (in his mind) then what on earth makes him think Kerry is the greater of them? Mind you, I'm a female and in his mind I'm a "moran," so my opinion means absolutely nothing. No one, and I mean NO ONE has been able to talk him out of voting for Bush.

Then came one...

His secretary gets called into his office Friday. He says, "So you're not voting for that Kerry guy too, are you?" She replies that yes, damn STRAIGHT she is. He argues with her about her father's military service and how on EARTH would she be able to consider a vote for Kerry? Her response floored me - she didn't argue points, she didn't take positions, she simply said, "Because I don't need someone in office voting my conscience for me." Nothing he said, from that point on, went anywhere. Safer? "My conscience." Flip-flop? "My conscience." On and on this goes, as we listen and giggle, until he says, "You know, I think you have a good point."

See, for those who are buying what the Rove-machine is selling, there is still one point that is undeniable (and in fact embraced by the current administration); Father Knows Best. It doesn't matter what we think or how we feel - Bush is talking to God (but not listening) and will in the end, vote HIS conscience, not ours.

It's powerful - and from what I've seen, it just may work.
Good luck!

[CrispyQ]

4. Good luck! I've given up on my mother.

It pains me that she is going to vote for Dimson. I've tried to engage her in debate, but everytime I try to make a point - either pro-Kerry or anti-Bush, she starts saying "Spin, spin, spin!" She believes in the liberal media crap, but why am I surprised? She's been listening to Rush for years & loves O'Rielley. I'm so disappointed in her, I can barely speak to her. I can't believe we are related. Regardless of who wins this election, I doubt I'll be spending any holidays with her this year.

I've decided my time is better spent encouraging more like minded people to register to vote & get to the polls than to try to change her mind. (LOL, what mind?)


Again, good luck.

[lunarboy13]

5. Get her the Richard Clarke book...

Then she'll see that maybe, just maybe, if Gore were President, 9/11 wouldn't have happened. And if it did, we would have gone into Afghanistan to fight the terrorists. We would have fought that fight until we had either eliminated or captured all of them, including Osama. We would not have suddenly diverted resources in the region to Iraq to fight Iraqis for reasons that still are not entirely clear.

[Poiuyt]

6. Bush has been soft on terror & homeland security

Lots of examples. Heres a good start:

http://americanpundit.blog-city.com/read/537356.htm

[moderatepenguin]

7. Thanks

to all of you. I'll be combining it into a cohesive argument, so I can bombard her with bits and pieces of it until 11/3.

And possibly for a long time after, if she can't open her eyes and realize what a drain on this country our current president is...

[wildeyed]

8. Great advice on how to talk to Repugs.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/auntie/04/141.html

This was posted on DU a few months ago. I found it very helpful. Michael Moore's book 'Dude Where's my Country' also contains helpful advice on how to talk to conservatives.

When I talk to people about the Iraq war, I make absolutely certain that they understand that Saddam had no WMD's and no ties to al-qaeda. A surprising number of people are ignorant of these facts. So terrorists in Afghanistan, no terrorists in Iraq. No weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. We did not finish the weapons inspections and we acted without the support of our allies. Over 1000 US military dead, and counting. Probably over 10,000 Iraqi dead, mostly civilian.

Then I ask these questions:
Why are we in Iraq? How does this war make the US safer? Is it worth it? Would it still be worth it if your child was dead?

Here is an article that I thought was a good companion to these questions.

U.S. troops' death rate rising in Iraq
Experts predict an extended war
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5946240

Good luck.