Kerry Blasts Lapse of Assault Weapons Ban

[papau]

To cut crime, Kerry proposes a 10 year $5 billion plan paid from the routine extension of customs fees, which will:

-Fund the COPS program to the full amount authorized by Congress.

-Ensure that state and local law enforcement agencies get access to the national terrorist lists, and simplify those lists.

-Increase scrutiny of purchases at gun shows.

-Enforce existing gun laws and help U.S. attorneys battle interstate gun trafficking.

-Crack down on gang violence and increase former gang members' access to jobs, job training, school and drug rehabilitation.

-Increase federal aid to local governments fighting methamphetamine and ban bulk purchasing of over-the-counter drugs used to manufacture methamphetamine.

-Hire 5,000 new community prosecutors over five years.

-Expand DNA testing and remove statue of limitations on some DNA evidence.

-Provide money for jobs and technology to improve probation and parole systems.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A17352-2004Sep13.html

Kerry Blasts Lapse of Assault Weapons Ban

By MARY DALRYMPLE
The Associated Press
Monday, September 13, 2004; 3:31 AM

WASHINGTON - John Kerry is criticizing President Bush for letting a decade-long ban on assault weapons expire while unveiling his own $5 billion plan to fight crime.

"George Bush made a choice today," the president's Democratic challenger said in remarks prepared for a Washington audience Monday. "He chose his powerful friends in the gun lobby over the police officers and the families he promised to protect."

Republican leaders in Congress said last week they have no plans to renew the 1994 ban on 19 types of military-style assault weapons, even as some law enforcement officials encouraged them to keep the prohibition alive.

Kerry also faulted Bush for proposing deep cuts to the Community Oriented Policing Services program, known as COPS, which the Massachusetts senator pushed to passage 10 years ago. The program provides grants to state and local agencies to hire police officers. Bush proposed cutting it from $482 million to $97 million next year. <snip>

[Commendatori]

1. He needs to shut up about the AWB

Clinton himself said in his autobiography that this issue kicked his ass in 1994. Further, whether or not Bush is being honest about it, he has said that he'd sign it if it reached his desk (it doesn't expire until midnight tonight).

Senator Kerry, stick to the economy and leave this one alone. PLEASE. Christ, the AWB doesn't even get consistent support on this board.

[MrBenchley]

3. No, he needs to speak up....

[Commendatori]

7. Let Gore or someone else do it.

There's too much at risk here. We've had repeated demonstrations of the gun lobby's power. Let's get Kerry in and Bush out first.

[MrBenchley]

9. You mean you think the gun lobby hasn't been lying their butts off before?

The NRA and the GOA have been attachking Kerry and Edwards for months....the gun owner forums are filled with nothing but virulent dittohead gibberish and have been for months....

[Commendatori]

11. Lying about what, specifically? Not that they aren't, but in this case

what are they lying about? That the AWB is an ineffective ban? I don't happen to think that's a lie.

[MrBenchley]

12. Repeating the slime boatters' smears, for one....

The NRA has been quick to keep that on their idiotic webiste....and it's all over those gun owner forums. The NRA also has a whole page of "anti trial lawyer" crap about Edwards....

"That the AWB is an ineffective ban? I don't happen to think that's a lie."
Too bad the gun lobby itself showed what a pantload that claim is, when they scuttled their own disgraceful "immunity from liability" bill earlier this year rather than risk a renewal....

"Washington -- Senate Republicans shot down their own bill protecting the gun industry from lawsuits on Tuesday, saying it had been compromised by amendments, including the slim passage of Sen. Dianne Feinstein's measure to renew the 10-year-old assault weapons ban.
When it was time for a vote on the overall liability bill, the bill's chief sponsor, Sen. Larry Craig, R-Idaho, urged his colleagues to kill the legislation because of the poison-pill amendments. "It is so dramatically wounded that it should not pass,'' said Craig, a National Rifle Association board member."

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2004/03/03/ASSAULTBAN.TMP

[Commendatori]

19. Well, I happen to be a member

of the NRA. I don't agree with everything they do, especially regarding Edwards (who was my choice during the primaries), but what does this have to do with the discussion? Weapons on the AWB list amount for about 3% of gun-related crimes. I doubt that this 3% is what scares the NRA about lawsuits, and the other 97% is just fine with them.

If this is your evidence that the AWB is effective, let's just drop it and move on. I stick with my assertion about the AWB being cosmetic bullshit, and it's pretty unlikely that we'll change each other's minds.

[MrBenchley]

22. Shame on you....

The NRA does nothing but pimp for the GOP.

"I stick with my assertion about the AWB being cosmetic bullshit"
Assert what you like...but the NRA itself showed what a load of crap that assertion is.

[Commendatori]

25. How?

You said that before - how did the NRA itself do it? Or was the immunity from liability bit your evidence?

[MrBenchley]

26. I already pointed out how....

If the ban covered only trivial cosmetic issues, they wouild have let it slide to try and get their scummy immunity bill through....but they didn't, did they?

[Commendatori]

30. Pointless

I should have listened to my own advice and stopped after your first mention of that. I don't know what your knowledge of the AWB was or the original bill versus the end version was, but if this sort of question is your idea of the two being connected, then the only word I have is "whatever."

If it's important to you, you may have the last word. I've lost interest here.

[MrBenchley]

31. As always, the pro-gun post is pointless and dodges the issue

"I don't know what your knowledge of the AWB was"
Clearly more accurate than yours.....and clearly, the NRA wasn't willing to pretend that the AWB was "only cosmetic" once it passed the Senate....so they scuttled their own bill....which deserved to die anyway.

[Commendatori]

32. Okay, whatever you say.

You have the last word in this argument. I'm moving on elsewhere, good luck and thanks for the chat.

You follow the NFL?

[MrBenchley]

4. Here's Clinton on assault weapons

at the Democratic convention...

"In this year’s budget, the White House wants to cut off federal funding for 88,000 uniformed police, including more than 700 on the New York City police force who put their lives on the line on 9/11. As gang violence is rising and we look for terrorists in our midst, Congress and the President are also about to allow the ten-year-old ban on assault weapons to expire. Our crime policy was to put more police on the streets and take assault weapons off the streets. It brought eight years of declining crime and violence. Their policy is the reverse, they’re taking police off the streets and putting assault weapons back on the streets. If you agree with their choices, vote to continue them. If not, join John Kerry, John Edwards and the Democrats in making America safer, smarter, and stronger."

http://www.dems2004.org/site/apps/nl/content3.asp?c=luI2LaPYG&b=131063&ct=158734

[underpants]

5. Really? 68% support the ban

Maybe just maybe things have changed in the last 10 years.

http://sify.com/news/international/fullstory.php?id=13565276

Backed by a poll by the University of Philadelphia's National Annenberg election survey, which found that 68 percent of Americans support the ban, the Million Moms March group bombarded the White House on Friday with phone calls and petitions.

Police chiefs from across America sought a meeting but said it was told the president has a "scheduling conflict".

International Association of Chiefs of Police president Joseph Polisar said: "This year alone there have been more than a dozen officers killed with assault weapons."

Los Angeles Police Chief William Bratton added: "These are weapons of murder. They're not weapons of hunting or collecting. "The irony is we'll probably have more of these weapons in the United States than there are in Iraq in the hands of insurgents."

[Commendatori]

10. I don't know a single person

with whom I've discussed this issue who doesn't recognize it for what it is: a cosmetic ban, and I know more Democrats than Republicans.

A dozen police officers, what, nationwide? Far more get killed by cheap, unregistered revolvers, and laws against unregistered weapons don't stop criminals who use them. I am quite pro-gun, I live in D.C, and I believe home defense is more important than a bullshit anti-gun law which has made crime increase.

My uncle, another pro-gun Democrat, said it best: "when Kerry opens his mouth about guns, I think about voting for Nader." I personally won't go that far, but the AWB is a crappy, ineffective law which I will be happy to see expire.

[underpants]

13. Okay but isn't it at least a start?

I recognize that it is mostly cosmetic (NRA watered down) but if you have NO restrictions as opposed to starting with AWB and refineing it ............ :shrug:

By "pro-gun" I am assuming that you want to be able to get whatever you want, right? Well this weekend my father-in-law, who is quite the hunter, heard that AWB would expire and he was beside himself (voting Kerry anyway). I understand that 68% of hunters want AWB, at least.

As far as home security I understand where you are coming from, I disagree but I understand. Yes I know that anything is available if you have the money and know the right people but what about the idiot "kids" who would be able to buy them now and not even have to fear being outgunned if they decide to hit your place?

We can go around and around on this but that really isn't necessary (although I expect a response to this post) I go by this:

The less guns the better
The harder it is to get them the better
The less firepower they have the better

We SHOULD register them (I ain't running for no office see) and if you commit a crime demonstrating your inability to be trusted your right to own a gun should be taken away.


I am in the majority on those 4 points too.

[Commendatori]

16. I don't see you as being in the majority on those,

and even if you were, it's just one of the many disagreements we have. The only thing you've written on which we agree is "if you commit a crime demonstrating your inability to be trusted your right to own a gun should be taken away."

As for "it's a start," there are over 20,000 gun laws on the books, isn't that a "start?" I may be a registered Democrat, but I do not side with many Democrats on this issue; I am a lifetime member of the NRA and think there are too many ineffective laws on the books as it is.

I don't know about you, but I'll bet you that out of the first 100 people you ask to name any weapon on the list of banned "assault" weapons, 100 will fail to do so.

We'll just have to agree to disagree, then. My main point is that Kerry should drop this issue anyway. You can disagree with that, too, but seeing him talk about guns gives me the chills because I don't want four more years of Bush.

[underpants]

17. Okay

Not trying to get the last word just saying okay.

[smb]

29. AAAAAAAA!!!!

Okay but isn't it at least a start?

For Ghu's sake, if it wasn't for statements like this giving credibility to the Democrats-Want-To-Grab-Your-Guns argument, Al Gore would be President....

[chimp chump]

34. Exactly

For Ghu's sake, if it wasn't for statements like this giving credibility to the Democrats-Want-To-Grab-Your-Guns argument, Al Gore would be President...

Gore lost AK and TN because of the gun voters, a loss as big as the rout of Democrats in '94 over the AWB. I can't see why so many people can't figure it out. And now CCW is legal in 38 states. We could probably even get a constitutional amendment for CCW at this point.

The formerly rising tide of gun control has ebbed. It's just too hot for gungrabbers in either party to touch. And Million-Mommy-Morons can't deliver the votes. GOA and RKBA groups can. It's just that simple.

[F.Gordon]

14. So, what's the big deal?

doesn't recognize it for what it is: a cosmetic ban

The AWB is just a tiny part of the Kerry plan. I'm constantly amazed at how many narrow-minded repukes and dems will latch onto a single issue....would let this country fall even further into the shitter because nothing else matters to them.

A "pro-gun Democrat", like your uncle, is no different than an anti-gay repuke. They see this country through a narrow lens.

It doesn't matter what Kerry says or does regarding "guns". The gun lobby will still find a way to attack him.

So, what's the big deal?
:shrug:

[Commendatori]

18. Since I too am a pro-gun Democrat,

I take issue with your post. If I were "latching onto a single issue," I would be voting for Bush. Yet you lump me and my uncle in with "anti-gay Repukes."

The only response I have for you would result in this post being removed and my getting a warning. End of discussion from this end.

[F.Gordon]

20. I lump you.....with regards to the "single issue"

As I do with anti-abortion Democrats. I only used the anti-Gay issue as a point of reference. And your uncle has voiced his willingness to vote for bush* by voting for Nader.

I'm pro 2ndA, but anti-gun. Kerry is not anti-gun. But I'd never use a single issue to frame my opinion of Kerry. But the pro-gun people sure do.

More important in my post was the question I posed. What's the big deal?

[Commendatori]

21. "I lump you....."

Lump this.

What's the big deal about what? The AWB or Kerry speaking about it?

I think Kerry could lose votes over opening his mouth over this. As for the AWB, I see it as an ineffective BS law which is designed as a stepping stone to wider gun bans, something I'm against. Did that answer your question? If not, please be more specific.

BTW, I do not believe that Kerry is not anti-gun, just as I didn't believe Gore was. Picking up a shotgun and firing at a few clay pigeons during a photo op will not convince me of anything, just as Bush posing with kids or Florida disaster victims won't convince me he cares about them. Kerry is getting my vote because he's anti-poverty, but I do believe that if he had carte blanche for a day guns would be outlawed.

Pro-gun, voting for Kerry even though I don't trust Kerry on the issue, and I'm a "single issue" voter. Groan.

Can you teach me how to be a multi-issue voter, broaden my horizons and insult members of my party who don't agree with every thought of mine? It would mean a lot to me.

[F.Gordon]

36. Pro-Gun and Anti-Poverty? That's an odd mix.

As for the AWB, I see it as an ineffective BS law which is designed as a stepping stone to wider gun bans, something I'm against.

Using that logic then maybe we should make Child Pornography legal. You see, it's all about being reasonable and socially responsible.

but I do believe that if he had carte blanche for a day guns would be outlawed.

If you truly believe this, then I have to ask why you are even voting for Kerry? Oh yea, that anti-Poverty thing. I would never vote for anyone that I thought would strip away my rights. So, why the hell would you?

Can you teach me how to be a multi-issue voter, broaden my horizons and insult members of my party who don't agree with every thought of mine? It would mean a lot to me.

There's an old saying from Oklahoma....or maybe it was Texas... "You can get a pro-gun voter to the polls, but you can't teach them how to think." Besides, you're already a multi-issue voter..... you got that anti-poverty thing going. And I insulted you? No, I insulted your uncle. But I understand your point because to you insulting one pro-gun person is just a "stepping stone" to insulting all pro-gun people.:crazy:

And I'd love to discuss how you can be pro-gun and anti-poverty, but I'm afraid it would sink to the same level this discussion is going.

[shawcomm]

15. It has already expired.

Midnight Monday is when it did; that's already happened.

[Commendatori]

33. No, it expires tonight

"Midnight Monday" is tonight, not when Sunday turns into Monday.

[shawcomm]

35. No, it's gone already

Sunday 11:58 P.M.
Sunday 11:59 P.M.
Monday 12:00 A.M. (Midnight Monday)
Monday 12:01 A.M.

Midnight is the very first minute of the day. It might seem otherwise due to your perception of daytime as relates to your waking hours.

You don't celebrate New Years Eve (meaning the evening before the new year) on Jan. 1 do you? No wonder your parties are so boring.

:evilgrin:

[Dangerman]

27. If Kerry shuts up...

We will have a nation armed chock full of AK-47s and TEC-9s friend and foe alike!

[MrBenchley]

2. Good for John....

"George Bush made a choice today," the president's Democratic challenger said in remarks prepared for a Washington audience Monday. "He chose his powerful friends in the gun lobby over the police officers and the families he promised to protect."

Exactly to the point....

[cthrumatrix]

28. excellent points

[Redneck Socialist]

6. Too bad

he was doing pretty well with the pheasant hunting and other gun photo ops. Pushing the AWB is not going to help him.

Most of the rest of what he talked about in the article sounded pretty good. If he had stayed away from the guns it would have been a decent message.

[ItsMyParty]

8. yep, remember a Union organizer who called C-Span several years

ago. Said they were doing fine organizing the people to vote for Gore and then a few weeks before the election, the NRA started their ads in the state and 'poof', half the union guys that went out to vote, voted for Bush. He said it was so demoralizing. This does not pick up votes....it just doesn't.

[CityDem]

23. The NRA is already against Kerry

He should take a principled stand and speak out for the AWB. Don't take the middle of the road DLC approach to this issue.

[MrBenchley]

24. Exactly so....

They've been attacking Kerry for months and playing footsie with pResident Toot....

You might recall the NRA didn't endorse this corrupt drunk in 2000, either....they just attacked Al Gore. Heston even called for his inbred followers to lynch Al Gore for daring to support gun control.