Pro-gun folks: Is Bush* lying for you?

[rogerashton]

He still says he favors the ban on assault weapons, but he let it die -- and yes, if he had used the kind of party discipline he has used in other cases, he could have generated enough replutocrat votes to extend it!

Now, everybody knows Bush lies, including Bush supporters. But Bush supporters don't hold the lies against him, because they believe they themselves will benefit from the lies. (In fairness, a lie in a good cause is at worst an abiguous act, from a moral point of view. "White" lies, for example.)

Now, let's see how that has worked for the advocates of free markets. Bush said he was a "compassionate conservative," in favor of (more efficient) social and industrial policy. His free-marketeer supporters knew he was lying, but saw the possibility that the lie would gain him enough votes to set the stage for the elimination of those very policies. They expected that Bush would cut taxes to make it impossible to finance them soundly (he did) and then use the threat of national insolvency to abolish these programs, including subsidies to business that a consistent free-marketeer hates as much as "welfare." But he did not, and there is some evidence that he never met a subsidy to business that he didn't like, so long as it goes to a crony or a contributor (or a crony of a contributor). The free-marketeers are beginning to realize that he was not lying in their interest, but in the interest of getting and keeping power, in order to enrich himself and his associates. Poor free-marketeers.

He's not lying in your interest, either. Prediction: within three weeks, if it looks like the assault weapons lapse is hurting him in terms of votes, he will flip-flop and call for the reinstatement of the ban. (By the way, I'm as near a neutral on this issue as it is possible to be.)

When somebody seems to be lying in your interest, the one thing you know for sure is that the person is a lier. You can never be quite sure in whose interest he is lying.

[TexasSissy]

1. This is so true.

[alittlelark]

2. I'm sure he will re-instate the ban

AFTER the religious wacko on the right buy up all they can for their crusade. A window of time when loony tunes get to arm themselves.

[MrBenchley]

3. Look at all the GOP leaders on the issue...

None of them had the courage of their convictions (or else they knew how idiotic they'd look in public spouting the horseshit our "pro-gun democrats" are spreading here). So they all hid behind this procedural crap.

[slackmaster]

4. Yes, absolutely correct

He's not lying in your interest, either. Prediction: within three weeks, if it looks like the assault weapons lapse is hurting him in terms of votes, he will flip-flop and call for the reinstatement of the ban. (By the way, I'm as near a neutral on this issue as it is possible to be.)

I've always been a rabid opponent of the AWB and all other gun bans, since I believe anyone who is determined to commit a gun crime is going simply to substitute a different gun if the one he wants most is not available. I'm against outright bans of all guns as well.

Bush's lack of support for a renewal of the ban probably didn't play much of a role in its demise, which was planned over 10 years ago. The sunset clause was needed to get the ban passed in the then-Democratically controlled Congress. While I am glad for the present Congress' inaction on the matter, I think Bush opponents would do well to point this out as another example of Bush's duplicity. If those among us who are rabidly in favor of gun control can resist the temptation to use exaggerations and appeals to emotion, this could be a valuable tool for unseating Bush the liar.

[rogerashton]

8. By the way,

being nearly neutral on this issue DOES involve a certain amount of contortion.

I grew up in a house with more guns than people, even if you count the dogs and cats as people. Nevertheless, I can't get away from the idea that regulation of firearms is necessary in the kind of (mostly urbanized and suburbanized) society we live in. However, gun bans are a pretty unintelligent way of approaching it, when we already have a hundred years' supply of guns on the street. Senator Moynihan, a great and good man, had a more intelligent approach: control the ammunition.

[slackmaster]

9. Ammunition is a lot easier to make than guns are

Was it the late great Senator Moynihan, or are you thinking of Chris Rock?

:D

Seriously, the gun Genie is out of the bottle in this country. It's way too late to make them go away. The best we can do IMO is attack the root causes of violent crime through social policy, and enhance that with aggressive prosecution of those who will fall through the cracks despite our best efforts to make sure everyone has a good education, health care, job opportunities, a social safety net, etc.

With over half of the teens and young adults in Los Angeles unable to fill out a simple job application, no amount of gun control is going to stop the train wreck that is coming to a neiborhood near you soon.

[derby378]

12. Both, I think

In 1994, Moynihan introduced a plan to tax teflon-coated bullets "out of existence" if made available to the general public.

[comradebillyboy]

5. his position will get him the NRA endorsement

nra is waiting for the ban to sunset and then will reward bush

[MrBenchley]

6. No it won't....

The NRA wiull probably do what it did in 2000....attack the Democrats night and day and pretend they're not endorsing pResident Toot...because they know moderate and liberal voters consider them one step above the Aryan Nation.

[Gulf Coast]

7. Buy now before its too late

I know most dems like this idea of a gun ban. Understand this I am voting for Kerry but I still think for myself unlike most republicans. I will be going to buy gun of my choice before this gets changed again. I'm a democrate who believes in gun ownership.This is probably the only thing about repubs i can live with

[IndianaGreen]

10. Why should the Left not arm itself?

I am glad the AWB is dead, never to be resurrected again. Kerry's embrace of this stupid law may cost him the border states that Gore lost for the same reason in 2000.

A well armed citizenry is the last bastion of freedom.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

11. Want to buy a bazooka? an RPG?

have a blast!

[MrBenchley]

14. Always exciting to see "pro gun democrats"

ready at the drop of a hat to shoot their fellow Americans, but unable to take any less drastic steps...like putting up pro-Kerry posts on any gun nut forum like highroad.org....

[derby378]

13. Agreed

Bush was just being a flip-flopper; his usefulness is now officially over. Me, I feel the same way towards the AWB that I did since 1994, so at least I'm consistent - even if some think I'm consistently wrong. :eyes: