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mimitabby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-14-04 09:00 AM
Original message
hey debunkers, I need help
I got this from my mother who belongs to Mensa, a group with high
IQ's but not necessarily any common sense:


A message (the merit of which is obvious) from Bruce Parisi, Lake County
Indiana Libertarian Party chair, and Chicago Mensan:

>
> Don't Arrest Kerry in Shotgun Incident, Gun-Law Expert
> Says
>
> A Gun-law expert Alan Korwin is calling for calm in the
> national uproar over John Kerry's possible serious gun violations
> during a recent photo op in Racine, W.V.
>
> The national clamor over the Democratic presidential
> candidate, who took possession of a Browning semiautomatic shotgun
> outside his home state, reflects a problem with the laws and should
> not be used to arrest and prosecute the man, Korwin says.
>
> A gun crossing state lines is heavily regulated thanks to
> John Kerry and his ilk.
>
> "There are so many charges Kerry might face," according to
> Korwin, who has written seven books on gun laws, including the
> unabridged plain-English federal guide "Gun Laws of America."
>
> 1. Taking ownership of the shotgun gift, if he doesn't
> already have a valid Massachusetts Firearm Identification Card, could
> subject him to a two-and-a-half-year prison term in his home state.
> Since he has claimed publicly he owns firearms, chances are he has
> this critical piece of paper, Korwin says.
>
> 2. Bringing the firearm back to Massachusetts, if he
> received it from a private party, would be a federal felony under the
> 1968 Gun Control Act (five years in prison, $5,000 fine, 18 USC §922).
>
> 3. The only exemption that would allow him to bring it
> into his home state requires that he obtained it in a face-to-face
> transaction with a federal firearms licensed dealer (FFL). A private
> gift would not qualify.
>
> 4. If Kerry did get it from an FFL, he would have had to
> personally fill out and sign a
> 4473 form, required by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and
> Explosives (BATFE), before the gift was given, under penalty of
> federal felony.
>
> 5. If Kerry did not personally undergo a "NICS" instant
> background check before the transfer from an FFL, he would have put
> the person conducting the transfer in some legal jeopardy, though the
> law contains a loophole that probably would save Kerry from additional
> harm (the dealer, not the recipient, suffers from failure to do the
> NICS check).
>
> While gun lobbyists are inflamed that Kerry introduced a
> law that would outlaw this particular type of sporting shotgun and gun
> gifts in general, it is a good thing the law has not passed yet,
> because then it might be too serious a problem to simply ignore.
>
> Korwin says that calls to indict Kerry are premature and
> "most certainly overkill. John Kerry should receive the same lenient
> treatment any other citizen deserves when innocently violating these
> complex and non-intuitive rules." At least give him a chance to
> explain, Korwin pleads.
>
> Unfortunately, federal authorities from BATFE have been
> known in the past to be inflexible in their enforcement of even minor
> technical violations (note that none of these felony violations
> involve a victim or any sort of harm).
> With widely circulated evidence, in the form of photographs of Kerry
> in obvious possession of the firearm, he could find himself subject to
> the long arm of the law.
>
> More importantly, Korwin says, "Some of these laws are
> just foolish, putting honest citizens at enormous and unjustified
> risk, and are so complicated that even a presidential candidate and
> his staff cannot figure them out."

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mimitabby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-14-04 09:09 AM
Response to Original message
1. This really sounds like a lot of BS to me.. but?
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TNOE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-14-04 09:13 AM
Response to Original message
2. I only glanced at this
but I saw the photo op on some report - Lou Dobbs? probably - and it clearly showed John Kerry handing the rifle back to some guy and thanking him.
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the Kelly Gang Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-14-04 09:14 AM
Response to Original message
3. just tell her..meanwhile the country is being bankrupted by Bush
while you are reading this claptrap..nicely though..she is your mum
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mimitabby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-14-04 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. my mother
my mother hates smirky and all that he stands for.
she's just sending it to me for ammunition
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murielm99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-14-04 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. Is a Mensan taking a political position, and playing it up while
using the Mensa name or trademark?

That violates Mensa rules. Mensa is strictly non-partisan, non-sectarian, and does not discriminate racially, or by sexual orientation.

I would be interested in knowing if he is using the Mensa name.

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mimitabby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-14-04 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. mensa list
it was a mensa list. they banter about everything including politics
i sent you the email as it was received.
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murielm99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-14-04 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #7
13. Mensans can discuss whatever they choose, but the
organization takes no positions.

BTW, it is not right for you to say that the organization lacks common sense. The only thing that unites Mensans is a high IQ. The level of common sense varies among Mensans in about the same way as it does in the other 98% of the population.

I get tired of the negative stereotypes and unreasonable expectations people seem to have about Mensa.

This is not the first time I have seen it here.
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mimitabby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-14-04 09:55 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. common sense
i was specifically referring to the mensan who wrote the fluff that
I asked you to debunk.
I was suggesting that he lacked common sense
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murielm99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-14-04 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. "a group with high IQs, bu not necessarily any common
sense."

That is what you said.

You suggested that Mensa as a group lacked common sense.

Why is it necessary to say that at all, or to tell us that a Mensan is the source of the e-mail?

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mimitabby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-14-04 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. because the guy who wrote it
also mentioned that he was a mensan.
I repeat, the slur was specifically aimed at the guy who wrote the letter. If you must know i was once a member myself...
my point was just because you can pass an iq test does not attest to anything else.. including believing that ush is nirvana and that
chickenhawks are noble.
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troublemaker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-14-04 09:32 AM
Response to Original message
5. Why debunk this kind of crap? Nobody is going to vote against
Kerry because he's a gun criminal.
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fishface Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-14-04 09:33 AM
Response to Original message
6. Her chapter of Mensa must be the probationary chapter.
This is NewHacks garbage right off their website.
One of their 'news alerts' you get if you sign up.
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mimitabby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-14-04 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. your point?
what would you say to the puke that wrote it? come on, i am asking
for help here.
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fishface Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-14-04 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. My point is the messenger that wrote it is full of shit.
Edited on Tue Sep-14-04 09:42 AM by fishface
You can't rationally discuss anything with lunatics like that.

Case in point: "A Gun-law expert Alan Korwin is calling for calm in the national uproar over John Kerry's possible serious gun violations
during a recent photo op in Racine, W.V."

The only 'national uproar' is the one this nitwit is trying to create for the Bushlickers.
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truthspeaker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-14-04 09:40 AM
Response to Original message
11. It's BS. It wasn't a semi-automatic shotgun. None of those laws apply.
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mimitabby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-14-04 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. are you serious?
this only applies to semi-automatics??!?!?
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truthspeaker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-14-04 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #12
26. The laws the email suggests he broke, yes.
I'm not familiar with all of Massachusset's gun laws, but long arms like shotguns and rifles are the least regulated firearms. The email you quoted specifically mentions semi-automatic shotguns, which is not what Kerry had in any of the pictures floating around.

There is no federal law restricting the sale of regular shotguns, or giving them as gifts, or selling them between private citizens. You don't need a Federal Firearms license to sell a shotgun.
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Tim_in_HK Donating Member (544 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-14-04 10:03 AM
Response to Original message
16. Drudge put up the rifle in question was
a semi-automatic.

but it wasn't.

Believe it was a Remington or something. I'm gun ignant. But there's a thread on DU somewhere.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-14-04 10:11 AM
Response to Original message
18. Mensa is loaded with libertarian loonies
some of whom cannot button a shirt without help...

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mimitabby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-14-04 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. lol yes, i've met some of them
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-14-04 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. I used to be an officer in the NYC chapter
some of us used to refer to them as "severely gifted."

By the way, the easiest way to debunk this is to point out that there's been no uproar anywhere over this...not even at Sludge.
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murielm99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-14-04 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #19
23. I have met many types of Mensans.
A high IQ is no guarantee of anything other than a high IQ.

LOL--you have met some of them.

So what? Have you met other types, too? Or, is it just too much bother to look beyond the stereotypes?

I am proud to be a Mensan, and proud to be a member of DU.

But I will say it again: Mensa bashing is uncalled for and sickening. I expect better of this site.
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mimitabby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-14-04 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #23
28. you're still asking questions?
i think you should take this off list.
i will not continue to defend myself about this
you sound pretty sensitive about this issue
mimi
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murielm99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-14-04 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. You owe me, and every other Mensan at this site an
apology.
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zbdent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-14-04 10:25 AM
Response to Original message
21. A gun nut actually wanting a gun law enforced?
Whoda thunkit?
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Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-14-04 10:31 AM
Response to Original message
22. ask Marilyn
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bobbyboucher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-14-04 10:43 AM
Response to Original message
24. Oh fucking please.
Take this shinola back to FR.
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baldguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-14-04 10:44 AM
Response to Original message
25. Full of GOP talking points = Full of lies
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bobbyboucher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-14-04 10:58 AM
Response to Original message
27. Where is the gun, mensa?
You're not implying he got prereferential treatment are you?
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Wilber_Stool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-14-04 11:19 AM
Response to Original message
30. It seems that all of the points
depend on weather he accepted the gun as a gift and took It home. If not, then all of the points are moot. I don't have the picture handy, but I remember seeing the gun broke in order to be reloaded. If so, it isn't even a semi-auto. Just bullshit.
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