I am confused by the lack of Bush pardons

[comrade snarky]

Amidst all the joy. Honestly, really, truly confused.
I have been waiting for the last month for Bush to pardon a whole slew of people. I expected a blanket pardon for the torture and wiretapping. I expected specific pardons for Gonzales and Cheney and probably Libby. I'd have put even money on him breaking with all tradition and pardoning himself.

But then there was almost nothing. Last night I wasn't surprised to hear about the 2 border agents who tried to cover their own asses to the point of lying about a shooting to superior officers. I was waiting for the rest. As the night wore on here on the West Coast I thought, no it wont be tonight. He'll wait until tomorrow to announce it.

Then today, nothing. No more pardons. Did Obama saying we should look forward give him a false sense of security? Could it be worse, is he stupid enough to think he didn't do anything wrong? Well I know he is but why didn't the usual handlers explain it to him? I cant imagine what must have gone on in his head.

[Kittycat]

1. I think he made a deal for his own skin.

[comrade snarky]

4. I cant believe Obama would make that deal

I know he's a politician and will bend a belief in order to work out a compromise but that's just too far.

The thing is without blanket pardons the people in the middle, the ones who followed orders or gave opinions are in legal jeopardy. A lot of it in fact. These people are going to have every reason to drop a dime on a bigger fish.

It just doesn't add up.

[That Is Quite Enough]

2. The Bush cabal will not be held accountable for their crimes. Why should they pardon themselves?

[comrade snarky]

7. Could be

If so we can make a rope from that arrogance and tie the bastards down.

[That Is Quite Enough]

10. I hope that's how things turn out.

[MannyGoldstein]

3. I'm Confused Too, But...

I'll heed the words of my dad, who told me "never try to figure out what crazy people are thinking; you'll just get upset, and you'll never be right".

[The Magistrate]

5. Two Principles Guide His World, Comrade

Never admit you did wrong.

The help is on its own when the summer house is closed.

[comrade snarky]

12. Well put!

(NT)

[rhett o rick]

23. I second the "well put". nm

[IsItJustMe]

28. Took the words out of my mouth.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

6. hmm.

he never gave a pardon as gov of Texass. He threw away friends, repeatedly, once he was done with them.
He also was disengaged on a day to day level, with Cheney in charge, more often than not. I suspect that he might even enjoy Cheney's people get indicted, just because.

[comrade snarky]

11. Speculation but

I wonder if Cheney and his ilk were pushing him to pardon but Bush refused because he thinks he's right. Bush is dumb enough to believe the propaganda.
I can imagine someone like Bush having to be handled carefully so he believes he's in charge.

Jeebus but it feels good that he's done. I can talk about this without getting mad now!

[housewolf]

8. One fact has always been clear about GWB.... he is opposed to partdons

Remember all those requests for clemency for Texas death row prisoners that he denied as the Governor of Texas? He's pretty merciless when it comes to reducing sentences (with the exception of Scotter Libby...)

And he may have managed to convince himself that everything he did was legal (since he keeps insiting that he didn't do anything wrong), and/or that nobody (including himself) will ever be called into accountability.

[comrade snarky]

13. His opposition to pardons

Trumped his opposition to being held accountable?

You could be on to something :evilgrin:

[Harry Monroe]

21. I especially remember the request for clemency GWB denied Karla Faye Tucker

He even mocked and made fun of her after her execution:

This from Tucker Carlson:

In the year following her execution, conservative commentator Tucker Carlson questioned Governor Bush about how the Board of Pardons and Parole had arrived at the determination on her clemency plea. Carlson alleged that Bush, alluding to a televised interview which Karla Faye Tucker had given to talk show host Larry King, smirked and spoke mockingly about her:<8>

In the weeks before the execution, Bush says, "A number of protesters came to Austin to demand clemency for Karla Faye Tucker." "Did you meet with any of them?" I ask. Bush whips around and stares at me. "No, I didn't meet with any of them", he snaps, as though I've just asked the dumbest, most offensive question ever posed. "I didn't meet with Larry King either when he came down for it. I watched his interview with Tucker, though. He asked her real difficult questions like, 'What would you say to Governor Bush?'" "What was her answer?" I wonder. "'Please,'" Bush whimpers, his lips pursed in mock desperation, "'don't kill me.'" I must have looked shocked — ridiculing the pleas of a condemned prisoner who has since been executed seems odd and cruel — because he immediately stops smirking.

Tucker also became a Christian in prison in 1985. Many believed her conversion to be genuine, but Bush would not grant clemency in any case.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karla_Faye_Tucker

Bush is the biggest piece of shit to ever have governed this country. Prison is too good for this bastard.

[Generator]

9. Bush is such an asshole he thinks he and all his buds

are really above the law. No pardoning needed. And the rest of the schmucks in the world, screw 'em! That's the mindset I imagine from him. Of course, maybe it's more sinister. I hope someone in that damn admin finally gets some legal comeuppance.

[Merlot]

14. "We don't need no stinkin pardons!"

A pardon is an admission of guilt. If he pardoned anyone not only would it be an admission of guilt, but it would be admitting to a mistake. And you know he doesn't do that.

Besides, they've lived outside and above the law for so long, they probably don't even think they need them.

[BlooInBloo]

15. Move: No pardon = everyone enjoys 5th Amendment protections....

Countermove: DoJ begins offering immunity deals to underlings, flipping their way to the top.

[comrade snarky]

19. Exactly

Pardoning the little people is how they protect themselves. It's what happened with Libby.

[JVS]

16. He's a lazy man. Maybe he didn't care to do any paperwork.

[comrade snarky]

18. True!

By the way, props on the Mr B Natural icon.


"The naturalist B you'll ever see!"

"Heh he, that's nice. Moooooommmmmm!!!!"

[DainBramaged]

17. He's a jug-eared little coward, who has NO friends.

no wonder here.

[rhett o rick]

22. But with his money he will always have faux friends. nm

[PurityOfEssence]

20. 1) no admission of guilt, 2) no empathy, 3) no fear of prosecution

What's to not understand?

Congressional moves will be made to bring him and his mob to account, but nothing will come of it. Obama has made his plans fairly clear when he talked up what a fine fellow Bush was and how he'd done what he thought best. He also knows that starting a shit-storm of attacking predecessors is not only against the spirit of the smooth transition that is our national heritage, but that it could also come back to haunt him, too.

Junior doesn't care about other people, so there's no cause for any emotionally-driven pardons.

He will have a very low profile for quite some time as things go to hell. Even if Obama becomes a brave and inciteful leader with appropriate and effective policies, things are simply on the downslope for awhile and that's the way it is. Junior comes from the aristocracy; he knows how to wait and let things play out for awhile.

[jillan]

24. Thom Hartmann had an interesting theory today on his show -

he said this way, if Bush gets charged with war crimes, he's taking them down too as leverage.

[rhett o rick]

25. Obama may not want to get dragged down with prosecutions so he may have made a deal.

No pardons, no prosecution. I hope not.

[Bucky]

26. it's inconvenient when the people we demonize don't conform to our preconceptions

I too would be more comfortable with Bush if he were the two dimensional cartoon villain talked about at DU. Unfortunately, he's an ordinary man--albeit a corrupt buffoon--who just happened to be elevated by arrogance, family ties, and the usual Republican conspiracy of self inflicted ignorance, to a job far beyond his abilities. He was never out to do evil; he doesn't seem capable of really any long term planning in either his personal life or his politics. He was out to enact a hollow philosophy of power and maybe grease a few friends along the way. He wasn't out to do evil this nation; he simply didn't have any mental comprehension of what "the public good" means beyond the shallow "low tax" catechism Republicans like to squawk without comprehending.

[IsItJustMe]

29. No. Probably not a down right evil man. But his authoritarian ideals and belief system have sure

played hell on this country and the world at large. I never realised just how tortured one could view our constitution until he took office.

[comrade snarky]

32. I tend to agree with your assessment of Bush

He's far to ordinary a man.

My confusion is that in every way I play the pardon\don't pardon question he comes out on top if he pardons. Bush could face real legal jeopardy if the mood in the country keeps swinging the way it is. I was wondering about what happened to prevent him taking that path of least resistance. Sure he'd be a pariah but that isn't too big a consideration for a guy at %22 approval.

It's things like this that I think about instead of sleep.

[musiclawyer]

27. Don't you have to be convicted or indicted to be pardoned?

Neither has happened yet (fingers crossed) to the vast majority of the illegal wiretappers and war criminals. Hence, no pardons.

[comrade snarky]

31. Sadly no

The participants in the Whiskey rebellion were pardoned without being charged. It was a blanket pardon for everyone involved whether they had been caught or not.

[IsItJustMe]

30. He did not want to piss all over his own self righteous image of being one of those smoke-em-out

tough on crime kind of guys. Just a hunch, but I think that might have had something to to with it.

[SoxFan]

33. His cat horked on the paperwork?