Hell yes, we should talk Viet Nam!

[Pepperbelly]

We should dredge up the horror, the meat-grinding, the frustration, the blood, the treasure, the savagry. And then, we need to apply the images to now in IRAQ NAM.

We've had more casualties in the last 4 months than the previous 8. Huge swaths of Iraq are under the control of Islamic fundamentalists. The very best we can hope for were the worst case scenarios going in ... a new Islamic Republic or the emergence of a new "strong man" to tame the place. Or, for something different, maybe we could up the ante and put another 200 K troops in place and make the metaphor perfect.

Iraq-fucking-Nam.

Bush's war.

Bush's folly.

A new national nightmare.

[TacticalPeek]

1. Iraq is different from Vietnam.

Shrub had an exit strategy for Vietnam.

:)

(Bill Maher)

[jumpstart33]

6. This would make a nice bumbper sticker or banner

Bush had exit strategy for Viet Nam, none for Iraq!!

[Pepperbelly]

10. now THAT is comedy! nt

:D

[Karenina]

2. There is only one open question.

How much death and destruction will occur before the Americans quit Iraq?

[auburngrad82]

3. There are a multitude of similarities between the two wars.

In Vietnam we were fighting an enemy that easily blended in with the population. In Iraq, it's no different. You can't tell who is a friend and who is a foe.

In Vietnam, American troops would go out, secure an area, then leave. By the next morning it was back under control of the Viet Cong. Same in Iraq. In Iraq, the only area under American control is the Green Zone.

In Vietnam, there was no "front". The war covered the whole country (including its porous borders) and there was no clear line denoting control. Same in Iraq. No matter where our troops are, the enemy can simply walk around them and wait for them to leave.

In Vietnam, the war was fought by small arms, booby traps, and ambushes. In Iraq, most of our casualties have come from small arms, booby traps (IEDs) and ambushes.

That's just the military similarities. There are many political similarities as well but I'll let someone else fill them in.

[TacticalPeek]

5. Another similarity was reported on an excellent Nightline last night.

Many US troops know they are in FUBARland, and are now mainly protecting themselves and their bud until their tour is up.

Friday follies, 24/7.

[Neecy]

11. here's a political similarity...

A puppet government of the United States that has zero credibility with the people of the country. Huge civilian casualties even while the American government trumpets a 'hearts and minds' approach.

Given no credible form of government, you have in both cases an army that won't and can't fight against its own people for the benefit of the U.S. or its installed puppet government. A population that's either apathetic or joining the other side in droves.

To me, this is the most depressing part of the entire formulation. Without an effective Iraqi security force, we'll be in IraqNam for as many years, and sustain as many casualties, as we did 30 years ago.

Damn RIGHT Vietnam is an appropriate subject.

[jumpstart33]

4. We must talk up Viet Nam to stop the war in Iraq.

People will have to see the similarities even down to the American torture and war crimes.

[gohawks]

7. Another similarity - two arrogant presidents from Texas who LIED... eom

[gohawks]

8. Lies, the media, and Vietnam

30-Year Anniversary: Tonkin Gulf Lie Launched Vietnam War
By Jeff Cohen and Norman Solomon

Thirty years ago, it all seemed very clear. "American Planes Hit North Vietnam After Second Attack on Our Destroyers; Move Taken to Halt New Aggression", announced a Washington Post headline on Aug. 5, 1964.

That same day, the front page of the New York Times reported: "President Johnson has ordered retaliatory action against gunboats and 'certain supporting facilities in North Vietnam' after renewed attacks against American destroyers in the Gulf of Tonkin."

But there was no "second attack" by North Vietnam -- no "renewed attacks against American destroyers." By reporting official claims as absolute truths, American journalism opened the floodgates for the bloody Vietnam War.

A pattern took hold: continuous government lies passed on by pliant mass media...leading to over 50,000 American deaths and millions of Vietnamese casualties.

http://www.fair.org/media-beat/940727.html

[Donna Zen]

9. Yes, and it is "hell"

After Vietnam, those who stayed in the military like General Clark, considered the "lessons learned" and wrote what came to be known as the "Powell Doctrine." Those lessons have been ignored, with Powell covering the backsides of those who know little and could care less. Of course Powell also tried to cover up Mai Lai to please the political movers and shakers, so no surprise there.

Today the war is being run out of the White House for political-gain while sound policy is being ignored. Troops are put "at risk" as long as rovian votes can be harvested.

Looking forward, it doesn't take a crystal-ball to see a future, where just as in Vietnam, the reason touted for going to war, stopping the spread of Communism, eventually became the victorious outcome; we will rue the day we aided a theocracy to gain power in Iraq.

I guess, the simple answer is: Yes, because both wars are just too fucking stupid for words.