Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

The world is NOT safer with Saddam out of power

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
CatWoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-16-04 11:36 AM
Original message
The world is NOT safer with Saddam out of power
Iraq is NOT better off with Saddam out of power.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
skypilot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-16-04 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
1. Yes, it IS!!!
Bush told me so. Again and again and again.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ducks In A Row Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-16-04 11:38 AM
Response to Original message
2. I wonder when the dems will say that when the rethug uses it
Rethug: Are we safer with Saddam?

Dem: No, you idiot. The terrorists are flooding into Iraq, and there will be civil war soon. Are you really so stupid to believe this is a good thing?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LiberalVoice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-16-04 11:39 AM
Response to Original message
3. "To all those being pessimistic about the war in Iraq, I say..."
"Duh!"
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nostamj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-16-04 11:40 AM
Response to Original message
4. no question about that
offically, terrorist strikes have INCREASED since the invasion. and you can hardly argue that Iraq is better off right now either.

and with our own guard and military bogged down and dying in the ME, the US is certainly not safer.

it's a pathetic argument useful only among the ignorant, fearful and hateful 'base' (what does al qaeda mean in English again? oh year, 'the base')
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CatWoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-16-04 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. It's tearing me apart watching Iraq disintegrate
Bush fucks up EVERYTHING he touches.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-16-04 11:40 AM
Response to Original message
5. the world is not safer with Bush in power
Edited on Thu Sep-16-04 11:41 AM by JI7
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
fugue Donating Member (846 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-16-04 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. The world was safer when . . .
Saddam was in power and Bush was not.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CatWoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-16-04 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Welcome to DU, Fugue
:hi:


you got that shit right!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-16-04 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. Now that's a good soundbite that would
get under the skin of pncers/rncers everywhere!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
buycitgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-16-04 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
9. catwoman.....did you hear Christopher Dickey on Fresh Air?
it was heartbreaking, frightening, maddening

he's been there, on and off for a long time...mid-80s, at least

working for Newsweek now

he said it's SO much worse than being portrayed in our media (they have a story with that premise....just saw it at msnbc), and that we WERE safer in early 2003, BEFORE we invaded, cause we had AQ on the run, to a certain extent, and Saddam was contained, under THREAT of war....he gave credit to * for warning them at the UN, at which point Saddam let the inspectors back in

but....since then, things are MUCH less safe

he was as reasonable, and eloquent a spokesman for what's gone on as anyone I've heard....VERY hard on the junta, saying at the end that the only reasonable explanation for the hurried invasion was in service to some administration political agenda

he mentioned that there WERE Islamic jihadists meeting in Iraq in the early 90s (he was THERE, covering meetings, and says it wasn't impossible that there were connections made), so that Saddam COULD have been a threat, involving terra and weapons on his wish list, but admits it didn't happen

very much worth listening to, if they have archives
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CatWoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-16-04 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. I saw a thread about it in GD yesterday
I'll listen to it when I get home.

Tho I'm quite sure I'll get very emotional about it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
buycitgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-16-04 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Newsweek story
Edited on Thu Sep-16-04 12:39 PM by buycitgo
Iraqis don't shock easily these days, but eyewitnesses could only blink in disbelief as they recounted last Tuesday's broad-daylight kidnappings in central Baghdad. At about 5 in the afternoon, on a quiet side street outside the Ibn Haitham hospital, a gang armed with pistols, AK-47s and pump-action shotguns raided a small house used by three Italian aid groups. The gunmen, none of them wearing masks, took orders from a smooth-shaven man in a gray suit; they called him "sir." When they drove off, the gunmen had four hostages: two local NGO employees—one of them a woman who was dragged out of the house by her headscarf—and two 29-year-old Italians, Simona Pari and Simona Torretta, both members of the antiwar group A Bridge to Baghdad. The whole job took less than 10 minutes. Not a shot was fired. About 15 minutes afterward, an American Humvee convoy passed hardly a block away—headed in the opposite direction.

Sixteen months after the war's supposed end, Iraq's insurgency is spreading. Each successful demand by kidnappers has spawned more hostage-takings—to make Philippine troops go home, to stop Turkish truckers from hauling supplies into Iraq, to extort fat ransom payments from Kuwaitis. The few relief groups that remain in Iraq are talking seriously about leaving. U.S. forces have effectively ceded entire cities to the insurgents, and much of the country elsewhere is a battleground. Last week the total number of U.S. war dead in Iraq passed the 1,000 mark, reaching 1,007 by the end of Saturday.

U.S. forces are working frantically to train Iraqis for the thankless job of maintaining public order. The aim is to boost Iraqi security forces from 95,000 to 200,000 by sometime next year. Then, using a mixture of force and diplomacy, the Americans plan to retake cities and install credible local forces. That's the hope, anyway. But the quality of new recruits is debatable. During recent street demonstrations in Najaf, police opened fire on crowds, killing and injuring dozens. The insurgents, meanwhile, are recruiting, too. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld once referred to America's foes in Iraq as "dead-enders," then the Pentagon maintained they probably numbered 5,000, and now senior military officials talk about "dozens of regional cells" that could call upon as many as 20,000 fighters.

......discussion of ludicrous specter of Iraq elections, and how they can't happen, given the extant chaos, then this:

America has its own Election Day to worry about. For U.S. troops in Iraq, one especially sore point is the stateside public's obsession with the candidates' decades-old military service. "Stop talking about Vietnam," says one U.S. official who has spent time in the Sunni Triangle. "People should be debating this war, not that one." His point was not that America ought to walk away from Iraq. Hardly any U.S. personnel would call that a sane suggestion. But there's widespread agreement that Washington needs to rethink its objectives, and quickly. "We're dealing with a population that hovers between bare tolerance and outright hostility," says a senior U.S. diplomat in Baghdad. "This idea of a functioning democracy here is crazy. We thought that there would be a reprieve after sovereignty, but all hell is breaking loose."
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5973272/site/newsweek/
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-16-04 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. I read that the money that was earmarked for
necessities of life in Iraq such as water, sewage, food, schools, hospitals, ect. is going to be used for "training to maintain order".
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CatWoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-16-04 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Yeah -- that story was posted the other day
again: Bush fucks up EVERYTHING he touches!!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
buycitgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-16-04 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. yknow, the reverse midas thing is making the rounds on the radio
I keep hearing that a lot, lately

maybe there's a campaign use for that

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
buycitgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-16-04 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. also to fix the oil stuff that gets blown up as soon as they fix the last
stuff they blew up

also, one of the worst things that's happening to regular people, according to Dickey is the KIDNAPPING of just about anybody

he says it's a growth industry; one of the few ways people have of making money

nobody is safe, from cab drivers to governors

he told about how a governor, or some high official, protected by the newly trained Iraqi police or security staff, just LAID DOWN their guns when thugs came to his house and kidnapped members of his family

details sketchy, as I was half asleep for that part
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Poiuyt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-16-04 01:06 PM
Response to Original message
17. Bush says that America is safer with Saddam gone as if it
were an established fact, and to question that fact would be unimaginable. Well, America and the world are NOT safer, but I'm afraid if any politician were to say that, he/she would be attacked the same way that Howard Dean was when he dared to say it. Nobody (except you Catwoman) has the guts to bring up the notion that maybe the world was better off with Saddam still leading Iraq.

I'm afraid that as long as Bush is allowed to keep saying that America is safer because Saddam is gone, people will still think that he is stronger on terror. SOMEBODY has to question Bush on why he feels that the world and America are better off without Saddam.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-16-04 01:08 PM
Response to Original message
18. It's safer
to defense contractors' bottom lines.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DinahMoeHum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-16-04 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
19. The dumbf**k squatter in the WH got played by Osama bin Laden. . .
like a violin.

:grr:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri Apr 19th 2024, 02:33 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC