DAMN IT DUers..... USE THE RIGHT BUSH DEFICIT NUMBERS!

[ulTRAX]

I know the federal budget is confusing and politicians of BOTH parties love to keep the public in the fog. Even Kerry is using the 422 Billion deficit figure when that some 150 BILLION too low. It includes as revenue, monies being BORROWED from Social Security and other off-budget "trust funds". That loan has to be repaid... and the clock is ticking for SS. It will be running a deficit around 2015. It can only be repaid from an on-budget surplus, more borrowing, higher SS taxes, or lowering benefits to put off the SS deficit.

Since there's just a few weeks left in the FY, we'll know the actual deficit soon. Until then the current ESTIMATES for Bush's FY04 budget can be found here:

Download a copy of the CBO's "SEPTEMBER 2004 The Budget
and Economic Outlook: An Update" at www.cbo.gov

Scroll down to Table 1.2 CBO’s Baseline Budget Projections

Unified Deficit = 422 BILLION (number reported in news this month)
Off-budget surplus = +153 BILLION
On-budget deficit = -574 BILLION<<<<<<< THAT'S THE CORRECT FIGURE

OMB also has an estimate dated 7-30-04: http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/fy2005/05msr.pdf
This provides the White House's 455 Billion deficit figure reported in the news last August. You'll have to scroll down to Table 14. BUDGET SUMMARY BY CATEGORY where you'll see the real off-budget deficit is 600 BILLION.... with 155 Billion in off-budget surpluses being borrowed.

So 600 BILLION<<<<<<<< is the last OMB estimate.

Remember that Clinton had a true ON-BUDGET surplus of 87 BILLION in FY00. So the true extent of Bush's irresponsible fiscal policy is greater than if he was starting from a "balanced" budget.

[papau]

1. True - the Difference is mainly the Stolen Soc Security Surplus.

But Bush needs to finance his tax cut for the rich so why not steal from Social Security and our kids via increases in the National Debt.

You want "class warfare" against the needs of the rich?

/sarcasm off

:-)

[ulTRAX]

3. maybe it's the opposite!

I think the evidence is clear that Bush is part of the "strangle the beast" conspiracy. If their agenda is to sabotage Social Security, Bush had to find ways to sabotage debt paydown and increase the deficit. A giant tax cut for the wealthy would serve that purpose just fine! Why not throw in an illegal war.

[never cry wolf]

2. Doesn't the official budget also NOT include supplimentals?

Such as our little coming out parties in the Mid-east?

That was my understanding anyway, if true, tack on another $100 Bil or so.

[papau]

5. The "budget" does not although the eventual deficit,,of course,must.

:-)

[ulTRAX]

6. supplementals

Supplemental spending is something thought of after the formal budget was passed. It's not in the original budget but the spending does show up in the deficit numbers.

[gratuitous]

4. Just call it the Biggest Deficit Ever

Use numbers, use 422 or 600 or whatever number you please, but be sure to stress that it's the largest deficit ever, and that we will be paying it off for years and years after Clinton had left office with the first budget surpluses seen around these parts in decades.

[ulTRAX]

8. "record deficits" are too abstract

I've debated Right wingers for years and my conclusion is they don't know the difference between a million, a billion and a trillion. Hell, I bet half of us don't really comprehend what a trillion is.

Bush has handed Kerry has a killer issue... but Kerry's reference to "record deficits" is just too abstract. Kerry COULD get the people furious at Bush if he just showed them what 600 Billion deficit or the Bush 1.6 Trillion debt was. Here's the math:

A dollar bill is between .0044" and .0050" thick. The paper is on the thin side but the areas that are pressed are thicker. I used the average of .0047.

A dollar bill is 6.125" x 2.625" x .0047"

$1.00 bill = .0755671 cubic inches

$22867.09 in a cubic foot... at least mathematically.

1 Billion....... 1000000000 / 22867.09 = 43730.968 cubic feet.

600 Billion (OMB estimate for FY on-budget deficit) = 26,238,580.8 cubic feet

This would cover a baseball diamond (90x90) to a height of 3240 FEET

600 Billion would cover a basketball court 94x50' to a height of 5580 FEET

600 Billion would an entire NCAA football field (including end zones and sidelines... 160x360') to a height of 455 FEET

As for the BUSH DEBT of 1637 Billion debt = 71587594.616 cubic feet.... just think of the possibilities!!! ;-)

[ulTRAX]

10. Five Skyscrapers of Cash!

According to http://www.publicdebt.treas.gov/opd/opdpdodt.htmthe current debt is 7353.679708420 Billion

If a billion $1 bill were tightly packed, they'd equal 43730.968 cubic feet.

The total national debt would equal 321,583,532 cubic feet of cash.

This is in bad taste. It's just to illustrate the power of imagery. The national debt is so large that it would equal 5.4 WTC towers of cash. (each WTC tower was 209 x 209 x 1362')

I think Kerry should use such imagery not just because it's effective, but because if any true leader would take national problems head on and educate the people rather than try to conceal problems.

[On the Road]

7. And Don't Forget -- Bush Promised to Use the "Lockbox"

which meant among other things using the full deficit number without showing the effect of social security.

[ulTRAX]

9. I'm not sure Kerry isn't playing the same game

Kerry claims he'll cut the deficit in half in 4 years. But WHICH deficit? The on-budget revenue deficit? Or the "unified" budget deficit which includes money borrowed from SS.

I certainly hope Kerry isn't playing this game but I find no specifics at his site. Kerry needs to be educating the public about the TRUE state of the nation's finances. I don't see him doing do.