To all those hyperventilating about pot legalization: Really?

[redqueen]

I'm as much for decriminalization / legalization as anyone can be... but it seems to me that this is not an issue that will be advanced by this president, at this point in time. I highly doubt it'd be something any president would want to spearhead.

Is it really so hard to figure out why this might be a bad idea? Or maybe some people here would like to help hand congress to the republicans in 2010?

Real change comes from the grassroots. Force the issue at local and state levels if you're so impassioned. It's going on all over the country... get involved there and stop expecting utterly unrealistic things from Obama.

[monmouth]

1. Excellent post. I do not want this part of his legacy....n/t

[redqueen]

3. I wouldn't mind if it happened during his administration...

but it has to come from the grassroots... from congress.

[Hello_Kitty]

2. Right now only 44% of Americans favor legalizing pot

The number is growing but right now it's still a non-starter.

[redqueen]

6. Yes.

It has to come from the ground up. No politician will go against the status quo on this.

[the other one]

14. That number is way low

Not everyone is going to answer that question truthfully.

800,000 arrests last year. Is that 1 of every 10 smokers or 1 in every 100?

If the former then there are 8 million smokers in the country; if the latter, then more then 1/4 of the population are regular users.

But if that number were accurate, then more people approve of pot then approve of the GOP. Can we make them illegal.

[Hello_Kitty]

21. I got it from 538.com

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/02/americans-growing-kinder-to-bud.html

[Qutzupalotl]

74. Hell of a trend line there.

Looks like it could flip sometime in the next five years.

[Hello_Kitty]

76. Unless, as Nate points out, there's another Just Say No period like in the 80s.

I suspect the renewed drug hysteria of that era (thanks a bunch St. Ronnie Raygun, for flooding American cities with crack cocaine) set back the momentum.

[otohara]

24. In The West it's 58%

and I suspect the more people learn that it would add billions of tax dollars to the economy - the reefer madness mentality of pot would go out the window and the economics of huge tax incomes added to states during this lousy economy might kick start a serious discussion.

[Hello_Kitty]

51. It's a generational thing. Give it about 10 years. eom

[Lilith Velkor]

68. People said that all the time 30 years ago.

Soon there will be no one alive who remembers when it was legal.

[Hello_Kitty]

75. In 1979? Not where I was.

Then again, I was a kid so all I ever heard was "drugs are bad mmkay?" from everyone. Then came the 80s and just say no.

[Hippo_Tron]

80. It was basically legal 30 years ago

It was generally a minor infraction until Raygun. It's a generational thing in the sense that the Raygun generation needs to be balanced out. Not inherently a young vs old hing.

[MadBadger]

52. From a CBS poll on March 19: 58% of all Americans oppose legalization

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/03/19/politics/politicalhotsheet/entry4877495.shtml

[Hanse]

86. So... about the same as those who support gay marriage.

[SOS]

91. Which supports redqueen's thesis

Overall, only 44% favor.

But some states like CA, VT, MA, are around 65-70%.

Let the states decide.
Obama's only role would be to call off the DEA in states where the people have decided to decriminalize.

[Uzybone]

4. Especially not the first minority president

people need to think.

[azmouse]

5. Nicely said.

[countingbluecars]

7. Amen! n/t

[Tyrone Slothrop]

8. So when should it happen?

In 2010, the argument will be that you can't do it then because of the 2012 Pres Election.

In 2013, the argument will be about losing Congress in 2014.

And so on.

Yes, it may not be the absolute smartest move politically, but it would mean that kids and young adults would stop shooting each other over turf wars and it would mean that other people wouldn't get thrown in prison for months for smoking a J and watching a movie after work on a Friday.

Frankly, I'm done with leaders who only think about the political ramifications of things. I would like someone in charge to actually do what makes sense without worrying about how many votes they'll be getting in some future election. I was under the impression that that was part of Obama's "change". Apparently, it wasn't.

[redqueen]

9. Do it now if you want... but recognize it won't be initiated at the federal level.

It has to come from the states... and that's how it's already happening.

Like FDR said... 'make me do it'.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

10. You are, by definition, not as much for decriminalization / legalization as anyone can be

Since you will be topped tn times in this thread alone... well, it speaks for itself, if you see what I mean.

[EFerrari]

11. The problem here is that Obama has a better sense of humor

than most people do and that AP titled their article to create furor, as berni mccoy points out in the LBN thread. Obama was poking fun at us the same way he pokes fun at all of his friends, associates and allies. It's a way to show affection, actually. And the AP's editors are very manipulative with their headlines.

Can anyone imagine the headlines this afternoon if he'd answered in the affirmative: "Obama Pins Economy Hopes On Legal Marijuana". No one would ever take his economic policy seriously again and the drug use jokes would start immediately.

[redqueen]

12. Media spin still has a surprising amount of influence on people here.

I single out people here because I would have thought people reading news here would be less easily influenced by it than the average person.

[Dawgs]

19. So it's okay to poke fun at a very serious issue?

And, why are jumping from poking fun to 'Obama wants to legalize marijuana'. All he had to do was be serious about it.

It wasn't a bunch of pot smokers that voted for that question.

[EFerrari]

48. He was trying to change the subject, not delivering a policy statement. n/t

[ecstatic]

54. why so sensitive?

Does smoking cause increased sensitivity? :shrug:

[Royal Sloan 09]

13. What about Mexican gang problems

Hilary stated yesterday, that The United States was CO-responsible for the problems with the illegal drugs. What are all those mexican deaths are less meaningful because they are Mexicans? We are having some major violence on the south border and the legalization is not a issue that needs to be addressed, WTF! Send in the military, but it's really not a issue?

The profits are so large that people are dying for it, but no it's not a problem for US? Who are WE?

States of California, Massachusetts, New Mexico, and Oregon have proposals to change their states laws, but what good will it be if the DOJ/DEA keep ignoring the States rights? (i.e. yesterday's DEA raid in SF) Federal laws triumph State laws, so even if states choose to legalize or Decriminalize, people are still going live in fear of arrest!

Solution= LEGALIZE

[redqueen]

16. Who said it's not really an issue?

You're right... the drug cartels thrive because of prohibition. And yes, the solution to that problem is to at least decriminalize it.

The problem is when people start getting it into their heads that this is the kind of issue the president of this country will spearhead. That's flat-out unrealistic. A pipe dream, so to speak.

We need more states to start changing their laws, and state attorneys to challenge the federal agencies on this. You do remember which president was in office when that first became an issue, don't you? Yet people expect Obama to be some kind of superhero... it just makes absolutely no sense at all.

[Dawgs]

22. What? OBAMA acted it like it was not a real issue.

That's why we are upset.

We're not looking for Obama to spearhead this issue, just take it seriously. WTF!!

[redqueen]

29. He acknowledged it.

That's as seriously as he could reasonably be expected to take it, IMO.

[dionysus]

65. uh, einstein, the mexican cartel wars are about coke and meth, not herb...

:eyes:

[Dawgs]

15. Nice post, but I don't think anyone expects Obama to legalize marijuana anytime soon.

It just would have been nice to see him take the issue seriously.

My question to many here that think it's a non-issue, have you done the research to see how it would help our society and economy?

Because, we're talking about billions in savings and tax revenue; not to mention getting control of our jail system. Oh yeah, quite a few jobs would also be created.

[EFerrari]

17. I don't think it's a non-issue but knowing Obama, he's not going to allow

his approach to this one happen off the cuff in a public forum. He doesn't do things that way.

[redqueen]

20. Very good point.

Thanks.

[Dawgs]

26. I disagree. He's done a great job of answering questions about not so popular issues.

Why not link it to the Mexican drug wars, the over-loaded jails, the huge cost (60+ billion) of fighting people that smoke marijuana. He doesn't have to say he's for it. As a matter of fact, he could say all of things and then say he was against - just don't blow it off like it's a joke.

[EFerrari]

49. He wasn't doing that today. That's my point. He could do all of that

and he may. But he will do it on his terms in a place of his own choosing.

[redqueen]

18. IMO his even acknowledging it was as seriously as he could take it.

Maybe he'd have been better off ignoring it entirely.

As it is, maybe his answer and his manner of speaking about it... laughingly... maybe that will motivate more people to get involved locally to change things. This is the kind of position that gets lesser candidates laughed into obscurity / turned into a joke. I am really surprised anyone expected anything different (besides having the question ignored entirely... that's realistic).

[Dawgs]

30. So, the only way he could have answered it was to laugh about it?

WTF!! If that's true, then I'm really disappointed in our president. I expect better from him.

I don't give a shit what the media or the Republicans think. I want my president to tell me the truth.

[redqueen]

I bet you expected a pony, too. (nt)

[Dawgs]

42. You like being added to people's ignore lists.

Grow up and quit being a dick.

[redqueen]

44. You're the one who's proud of expecting completely unreaslitc things.

Excuse the hell out of me for making a little joke about it.

[Cha]

53. So his reaction was to laugh..

Big Fucking Deal.

[cbc5g]

23. To all those hyperventilating about gay marriage legalization: Really?

..Real change comes from the grassroots. Force the issue at local and state levels if you're so impassioned. It's going on all over the country... get involved there and stop expecting utterly unrealistic things from Obama....

No, sorry buddy but there are some groups in America that are tired of being second class citizens and being laughed at and tossed around. The time for change is here and the iron is hot.

[MadBadger]

28. Comparing Pot Rights to gay Rights is incredibly offensive.

[Dawgs]

33. Why is that offensive? They are both serious issues.

Do you think the pot smoker that's sitting in jail for getting caught with a bag of dope deserves to be laughed at by the President?

[redqueen]

35. Don't you ever get dizzy from all that spinning? (nt)

[Dawgs]

37. Well, what the fuck are you doing?

You're responding just as much as me.

The difference is my posts are based on fact.

[redqueen]

41. Oh my god...

tell me you're doing performance art. Please.

[MadBadger]

39. Whether or not it should be legal, there is a choice involved with smoking pot.

And I do favor legalization.

[endarkenment]

57. Yeah, we should empty the jails of all those people incarcerated for being gay.

Oh wait...

[MadHound]

25. Ah yes, the political excuse

Don't give the 'Pugs ammunition for the next election, so just keep pot illegal, keep throwing people in jail, keep ruining people's lives, keep that crime wave going, keep escalating the war down on the border, all so that the Dems can win in the next election. Keep sacrificing people's lives and our civil rights on the altar of politics. Bravo:eyes:

Lather, rinse, repeat, this excuse has been used for over thirty years now to keep this madness going. How much longer will we have to suffer all in order to play cheap political games instead of doing what is right and moral?

[redqueen]

31. Did you miss the part about how change like this comes from the ground up?

And not the president?

You'll have to suffer until people get off their asses and change enough state and local laws to force the feds' hands.

That's how long.

[Dawgs]

36. Uh, did YOU miss the part where we ALL worked to get THIS President elected for CHANGE.

We got are asses up already. And this president laughed at us.

Remember, this question was asked numerous times on this site; and also voted up by peers. If Obama is going to do something like this, he at least could take are questions seriuosly.

[redqueen]

38. How old are you?

"the president laughed at us!"

:cry:

Grow up.

[lfairban]

87. I heard it on NPR . . .

. . . it sounded like he was laughing at the Online Community too.

He laughed at all of us, not just the ones supporting marijuana legalization.

"I don't know what this says about the online audience," Obama said with a chuckle. "We want to make sure it was answered. The answer is no — I don't think that is a good strategy to grow our economy."

http://www.mercurynews.com/breakingnews/ci_12004274?nclick_check=1

Weigh it for yourself, after all, we at DU did nothing to help him get elected. How much revenue could taxing marijuana create? It is only the biggest cash crop in the country. More money is made off of marijuana than corn!


oops :sarcasm:

[MadBadger]

43. So your not pissed that he disagrees with you, but that he laughed at you

So that's what this is about?

[MadHound]

84. Let's see here

We've got states looking to decriminalize, yet they're told they can't. States that have legalized medical marijuana, yet the feds raid MM establishments. We have states and cities throughout the US that have decreased penalties concerning pot, yet then the feds come in threatening to withhold federal monies for various projects.

How much longer do we need to beat on this brick wall. The vast majority of Americans want legalized dope, it's been that way for a couple of decades now. There have been initiatives by city after city, state after state to decriminalize or legalize pot, yet they are either blocked by the feds, or the feds threaten some sort of retribution. We have had the grassroots uprising already, it is the president and other federal powers that need to catch the fuck up!

[redqueen]

85. "The vast majority of Americans want legalized dope"

No... that is incorrect.

And if a they did... they'd still need to organize and advance this at the state level.

Yes, Clinton was able to thumb his nose at states who wanted to provide medical marijuana. Guess why? Because most people don't take it seriously.

That is changing, but slowly.

[nichomachus]

27. We need to retire

the "if you criticize Obama, you're handing the Congress to the Republicans" bullshit.

I think a lot of people who voted Republican the last time, just might go Dem, if the Dems legalized weed.

In all polls, an overwhelming majority of Americans favor marijuana reform.

[MadBadger]

32. But Americans do not favor the legalization of Marijuana: March 19th - 58% oppose legalization

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/03/19/politics/politicalhotsheet/entry4877495.shtml

[redqueen]

34. You need to brush up on your reading comprehension.

I didn't say, "if you criticize Obama, you're handing the Congress to the Republicans".

I said if Obama had stood up there and said, "Yes, that's a great idea. We should legalize marijuana to save the economy," that the media would go all Monica about it and that would be the end of anything he even HOPED to get done.

[nichomachus]

69. I know what you said - but it's just a variation on a theme

[redqueen]

71. Details matter. (nt)

[sammythecat]

40. I don't disagree with anything you've said.

You're right.

The question was whether legalization would be a significant remedy for our economic problems. He said "no" and I agree. My own initial negative reaction was based on the "seeming" implication that any changes in the marijuana laws were not to be expected. That is NOT what he said, I understand that, but I was less than pleased with the humorous and dismissive tone of the response. The tone, not the substance. It was the only question that he himself chose to answer and I would have preferred that it wasn't regarded as comic relief.

For me, it comes down to this small and probably inconsequential matter. That humorous tone would have been pleasing to the ears of those in favor of the existing drug war, and for that reason alone, it was not pleasing to my ears.

[redqueen]

46. Whoever it pleased, it should have surprised no one.

I mean really.

We sure don't expect much from him do we? Only to never, ever be anything but perfect.

[sammythecat]

64. The tone of his response displeased me,

if saying so is being too critical, then so be it. I don't consider that tone to represent any prediction of how his administration will handle the war on drugs, but I didn't like the, probably unintended, comforting message it may have sent to proponents of the current drug war.

I don't think the day will ever come when I listen to a president answer questions for an hour and not find something I don't quite agree with. Doesn't mean I expect him to be perfect.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

45. he was asked if it would help the economy and he answered no

[Jennicut]

47. Look, I am totally for legalizing marijuana. But its so on the bottom of the list.

So so on the bottom. Like 25th or something. I really could care less about it at this point with all are other problems. I think Obama feels the same way. A million questions about THIS? When people are losing their jobs? And no, taxing it will not make up for lost jobs. Sorry.

[ShortnFiery]

50. If the Mexican Cartel wars spill over to the USA it may threaten the Pentagon's continued wish for

Occupations abroad. Given a choice between legalizing Marijuana OR pulling our troops out of their Middle East "Cash Cow", the bloated contractors who run the Pentagon would legalize Marijuana in a heartbeat.

If the violence escalates, WE MY HAVE TO DEPLOY TROOPS. No way in hell does the Pentagon wish to stop these two "sweet" occupations = $$$.

It's going to get real interesting real quick. :evilgrin:

[asphalt.jungle]

72. weed is a small % of the cartels' income

they care more about cocaine and meth. america could legalize weed and the cartel wars would still go on. it would probably ratchet up because one source of their income streams (even if it's a small part) would dry up and the slack would have to be picked up by coke, meth and scrips.

[lfairban]

88. Pot and Coke

Actually to some degree Coke competes with Pot. In the early '80, the prosecution of marijuana caused the prices to rise so high that many people chose Coke instead. IMO, decriminalization would definitely hurt the drug cartels.

[endarkenment]

55. FDR understood that change means actually changing things.

And somehow found time to end prohibition despite the teeth gnashing hair-pulling crowd.

http://www.druglibrary.org/think/~jnr/endprohb.htm

All in the midst of an economic crisis still far worse than what we face now.

[MadBadger]

58. But prohibition was very unpopular.

[redqueen]

59. Yes, the more-severe crisis at the time enabled him to do more, faster.

Thanks for pointing that out.

[robertpaulsen]

56. Heh, heh...you said grassroots...heh, heh.

:smoke:

[redqueen]

60. Hah... so I did.

:P

[EFerrari]

61. Put a lid on it.

[redqueen]

63. Hahahahaha...

nice one. :)

[LanternWaste]

62. you've just skewered many people's most holy of Sacred Cows.

I knew there was a reason I like you. You're pretty smart... for a girl. :evilgrin:

For the record, I'm on board for eventual, responsible, legal decriminalization also-- but you've just skewered many DU'ers most holy of Sacred Cows. I'm grabbing the A-1. :)

[Bluenorthwest]

66. Of course he will not do anything positive about it

but there is no need at all for him to hinder the honest discussion being called by the American people. Making a joke out a serious issue is not helpful.
Better he should say nothing at all than make a mockery of a subject that does involve jailed people, and those trying not to go blind.
Your OP is not expressing what made me mad. Not expecting him to 'spearhead'. Just expected him to treat the questions asked him with dignity, expected him to have a scientific outlook on the subject, and hoped that he would think about the high level of minority arrests for pot.
It is not unrealistic to expect a serious subject to be dealt with in a serious manner. And how odd that you would castigate people for being activists while telling them to be activists...just odd.

[redqueen]

67. How did I castigate anyone for being an activist? (nt)

[Bluenorthwest]

77. By implyinig that we are not activists

and the odd claim that attempting to inform and change minds within the Democratic Party is not a valid thing to do.
It is another version of the 'laugh at it' sort of lthing that the President engaged in today, a diminishing of the subject, coupled with a diminishing set of assumptions about those who broach the subject.
Telling people they should not speak here, but go do things you just know they are not doing...rude stuff. To me, just stunningly arrogant, and simply rude.

[redqueen]

78. You seem to be reading a whole bunch of stuff I didn't say. (nt)

[Bluenorthwest]

79. Well if that is the case, all apologies

not here to insult anyone.

[firedupdem]

70. Excellent Post. I live with a smoker and wouldn't expect him to

touch this issue right now.

[Political Tiger]

73. You're so right.

If Obama were to take up legalizing pot the Pukes would have a field day with it. It would become their number one talking point. It's not hard to imagine how they would take the issue and paint Obama as some radical who wants to turn kids into drug addicts.

[lfairban]

89. Screw the Pukes!!!

They are about to be thrown in the dust bin of history.

Why are you still trying to kiss up to them??

[kpominville]

81. Many States Already Legalized It

But the federal government is still lagging behind the public and the states.

The "war on drugs" is a multi-billion dollar industry. That is the real reason that the feds don't want to end it.

[redqueen]

82. Yep. I'll never forget how happy the republicans down here were

to be able to spit that "Clinton let the DEA trump the states" line about this issue.

You're right... there's a huge slush fund at issue here... and that's just more reason why this will never change from the top. It has to come from a massive movement made up of people demanding change. Otherwise it will never happen.

[we can do it]

83. I Agree- More Important Things Need Done Now

[slay]

90. Yes - REALLY

It's a matter of not just right and wrong - it's a matter of PRISON for many. How many people in prison for pot do you write to? I write to several on a regular basis. This is why it's important and is the way Obama should approach it. These people are our brothers and sisters, neighbors and friends. I understand the politics behind him not supporting it, but in doing so, he is causeing - well, not causeing, but not stopping - real world damage to real people. Yes, REALLY.

[AJH032]

92. Legalizing and taxing marijuana may help us get out of this recession

I'm not going to guess how much money is spent by Americans on marijuana (and other illegal drugs) each year, but I'd bet the size of our GDP would be noticeably larger if we could include the sale of these drugs in it. Additionally, if we were to legalize marijuana and tax it, even heavily, the revenues produced would help close our deficit and debt, and allow for sustained future government spending. At the very least, we'd save money sending people to prison for drug possession.

Besides, people do it anyway. The law does not seem to stop them.