Don't be surprised if Michelle Obama does not curtsy to the Queen

[Empowerer]

In fact, protocol dictates that she not do so.

Angier Biddle Duke, President Kennedy's Chief of Protocol told this very poignant story . . .

Before the Kennedy's first state visit to England, Jacqueline Kennedy asked Duke whether she should curtsy to the Queen. He told her no because she was the wife of the head of state and heads of state and their wives do not go around bowing and curtsying to one another.

Three years later, after her husband's funeral, Mrs. Kennedy received guests in the White House family quarters. When Prince Philip greeted her, she curtsied to him. Duke was surprised because Mrs. Kennedy was a stickler for protocol and had a steel trap memory for such things. Noting his surprise, Mrs. Kennedy whispered to him:

"Angie, I'm no longer the wife of a head of state."

Duke said he immediately left the room and wept.

So, don't be surprised if Mrs. Obama does not curtsy to the Queen. Also don't be surprised if she gets jumped all over for it - but she'll be doing - or not doing - exactly what she's supposed to.

[Clio the Leo]

1. Yep and if she does, I will riot in the streets!

I love the Royals but we fought TWO wars against those people so we wouldn't have to do that. ;)

In all seriousness, only the Queen's subjects are expected to bow or curtsey so obviously we, as Americans, are excluded from that.

I've got money on the fact that both of them, being all Obama-like, will do a couple of polite half head bobs that could be interpreted as a show of politeness, albiet not full blown genuflection.

[monmouth]

2. Prince Philip is truly a nasty piece of work, stories abound about him

here in Palm Beach. After his rudeness and utter disrespect for the hostess they had on their last visit, they were never invited back again. Their hostess was a Brit living here for many years ( a girlhood friend of the Queen and a member of her bridal party back in the day)and went out of her way to be sure he would be happy. She later stated he was "difficult."

[Jackeens]

6. A few more examples....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x8310748

[MADem]

11. There's one classic for that list you missed that I saw on tee vee some time back.

PP is at a school doing some ribbon cutting or other shit. He's asking the little kids what they want to be. This chubby kid says that he wants to be an astronaut. PP replies "An astronaut? Why, you cannot be an astronaut--you're much too fat!"

And of course, he put that typical thumb-up-his-arse pronounciation on the word fat...more like "FET!!!"

The poor little kid was crushed. He looked ready to cry.

In 1966, though, he was correct about the cooking skills of British women...but he missed an opportunity to insult British men who were cooks, too. A good cook in the UK was the exception, not the rule back then. The food back then was pretty...uh...plain on a good day, and horrible on others. More lard, anyone? You really had to go to France, Spain or Italy for a decent meal!

[Jackeens]

13. Oh my God, never heard that one: he is vile!

[MADem]

23. The little kid was a rather young thirteen, too. He'll never forget that, I'm sure.

Oh, I have more!

He's at some factory that does electrical stuff in Scotland, and he sees a huge mess of wires and cables coming out of a fusebox. The plant manager says, sheepishly, "That's the national grid." (i.e. the nationwide electrical system). Now that was actually funny, and he could have just laughed at the guy's joke and left it there ....but NOOOOO! Couldn't leave well enough alone.

He follows up with:

"It looks like it was put in by an INDIAN!!!"

I suppose we should be grateful he didn't say WOG!

Even more, here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/derby/features/2003/11/queens_visit/prince_philip_gaffes.shtml

Speaking to a driving instructor in Oban, Scotland: "How do you keep the natives off the booze long enough to get them through the test?"

To an Australian Aborigine during a visit in March 2002: "Still throwing spears?"

On cuisine in 1966: "British women can't cook."

During the 1981 recession: "Everybody was saying we must have more leisure. Now they are complaining they are unemployed."

Sharing a joke with a blind, wheelchair-bound girl with a guide-dog: "Do you know they have eating dogs for the anorexic now?"

Commenting on modern stress counselling for servicemen in 1995: "We didn't have counsellors rushing around every time somebody let off a gun, asking 'Are you all right? Are you sure you don't have a ghastly problem?' "

Responding to calls for a firearm ban after the Dunblane shooting: "If a cricketer, for instance, suddenly decided to go into a school and batter a lot of people to death with a cricket bat, which he could do very easily, I mean, are you going to ban cricket bats?"

Referring to an old-fashioned fusebox in a factory near Edinburgh in 1999: "It looks as if it was put in by an Indian."

Referring to a Cambridge University car park attendant who failed to recognise him in 1997: "Bloody silly fool!"

Talking to young deaf people in Cardiff about the school's steel band: "Deaf? If you are near there, no wonder you are deaf."

During a 1984 visit to Kenya, he's presented with a small gift from a native woman: "You are a woman, aren't you?"

Accepting a conservation award in Thailand in 1991: "Your country is one of the most notorious centres of trading in endangered species in the world."

When asked to stroke a Koala bear in Australia in 1992: "Oh no, I might catch some ghastly disease."

Speaking to a Briton in Budapest in 1993: "You can't have been here long, you haven't got a pot belly!"

Speaking to an islander in the Cayman Islands in 1994: "Aren't most of you descended from pirates?"

Speaking to a student who had been trekking in Papua New Guinea: "You managed not to get eaten then?"

At a 1986 World Wildlife Fund meeting: "If it has got four legs and it is not a chair, if it has got two wings and it flies but is not an aeroplane, and if it swims and is not a submarine, the Cantonese will eat it."

Pointing at 14-year-old Shahin Ullah during a visit to a London youth club: "He looks as if he is on drugs!"

[Beacool]

10. He's a jerk.

My mom still lives in Palm Beach. I was once at a British Lord's house for a party and went to the powder room. I was surprised to find above the commode a photo of the Royal family. He couldn't stand them and this was his way to show his disdain.

Phillip, and the not so dearly departed Princess Margaret, were racists. Well, he probably still is. He is also a man who is still bitter that he has two walk behind his wife on official occasions and that she was not allowed by Parliament to take on his last name. He was a cold and exacting father to his children, while the Queen was aloof and distant. Not a nice family to grow up in, poor Diana was a breath of fresh air and they almost destroyed her.

:(

[monmouth]

15. Next time you come down to visit Mom I'd love to meet you. It was

Lipton-Ferris I was talking about who was the hostess.

[Beacool]

18. Oh, yeah............

Well, I'm sure that she won't invite him again anytime soon. LOL!!

Take care!!

:hi:

[wisteria]

37. Exactly how do you know Prince Phillip and the late Princess Margaret are and were racists?

I have never heard any such thing and I have followed the royal family for years.

[Beacool]

41. It has been reported through the years in various publications.

Also, talking to people who knew them. My mother was friends with an older woman who regularly hosted the Duke and Duchess of Windsor in her Palm Beach home (she passed away a few years ago). I remember as a child quite a few anecdotes about the royal family.

Here's some:

The Duke of Windsor was not the sharpest knife in the drawer and the Windsors would mooch from their hosts because they always overspent beyond their allowance. People didn't care because it lent them prestige to have them stay at their homes or as guests at their parties.

Phillip is quite ill tempered and can be outright rude. Margaret smoked like a chimney, liked men a little too much for a royal princess (read cheated on her husband) and made plenty of racist remarks. There was some trouble one time in particular when she said some inappropriate things in the Bahamas and the press got wind of it.

The Queen is the one person that almost everybody respects and has nothing negative to say about her.

:D

[MADem]

53. Princess Margaret:: The Irish are PIGS. Is that racist enough for you?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/1099500.stm

The Mayor in question was Jane Byrne--I don't think she was making this shit up:


In 1979, the year Lord Mountbatten was assassinated by the IRA, Princess Margaret caused a stir when the Mayor of Chicago alleged that she had described the Irish as "pigs".




She had a track record with regard to saying the worng thing about a number of ethnic groups.

As for Phillip, just look at some of his infamous anecdotes. He's a horrid racist.

You haven't been following them too closely if you're not aware of their racially insensitive gaffes.

[MADem]

52. HA!!

I had one of those, too, when I lived in a region of the UK that was "less than enamoured" of the family. It came with the house! Exact same location, too. The landlord gave it to me as a "parting gift" because it cracked me up so much!

[CBGLuthier]

3. Head of state doesn't matter

Americans should never bow to royalty. Never ever ever. They are not our sovereign(s). We are not THEIR subjects.

[CTyankee]

4. She should definitely NOT curtsy to the Queen. We are not her subjects.

A polite nod ofher head, as she would to anyone, a handshake and a smile will do. I'm sure she has been briefed properly on who speaks first and what to say upon shaking the Queen's hand. She has such dignity. I don't think she'd be saying "Pleezed to meetcha, queenie!"

[sarge43]

17. Exactly. No one who isn't a subject should bow or curtsy.

That's making a false statement. I'm sure Mrs Obama will address the Queen "Your Majesty", then, "ma'am". That's proper protocol.

[Orsino]

48. Unilateral bowing and scraping is a bad thing.

Subjects or not. That's another of the trappings of royalty which should disappear.

[Enrique]

5. ok I won't n/t

[patrice]

7. NO!! KINGS!! . . . nor QUEENS!!!! Not our own and certainly NOT anyone else's!!

Please don't laugh.


:mad: No f-ing Royals! :mad:

[MADem]

9. Hey, if she curtseyed to Queen Latifah or Aretha, Queen of Soul or

the remains of the band once fronted by Freddie Mercury, I would have no problem with that. But otherwise, no sale.

[MADem]

8. If she did, I'd call her a fucking idiot. We don't do that shit.

Angie's story may be poignant, but it is just that because it demonstrates that Jackie Kennedy was a bit THICK when it came to her understanding of her rights and responsibilities as a citizen of these United States.

Jackie Kennedy was "all that" in her day, because she was a fashionista, and in that time, it was just SO important for women to look good--they didn't have to have a brain in their head. Jackie had a wig collection that was so good that many people never realized that the thick hair on her head was only hers because she paid for it. Her clothes were just so. Her simpering voice was just what Manly Men wanted THEIR wives to sound like.

But Jackie wasn't too smart. She plainly slept through the American History lesson about that little revolution we had here a couple of hundred or so years ago. We are not subservient to the crown, we went through that little contretemps to achieve that effect, so unless she was a dual-citizen of the UK or one of the crown colonies, she made an ass of herself by bowing down to a cardboard prince, and brought a tiny measure of embarrassment to our nation.

The appropriate way for US citizens to greet royalty is with a handshake and a "how do you do?" That's the AMERICAN WAY.

[EffieBlack]

12. Wow - how did a very nice story about Jackie Kennedy turn into a screed about her supposed stupidity

Jacqueline Kennedy was many things, but "not smart" wasn't one of them.

FYI - while American citizens are not required to curtsy to the Queen, it is also not forbidden and has long been a standard courtesy shown to foreign royalty by Americans, particularly in those more formal times - it is not a demonstration of stupidity, ignorance of history or any other negative thing. It's a simple courtesy that some people choose to show. Mrs. Kennedy chose to do it, which I thought was very gracious of her (and apparently the Chief of Protocol, who knows more than we do about these things, thought so, too). A story about it certainly doesn't warrant a tirade about about history, the Revolution and Jacqueline Kennedy's supposed shortcomings in her knowledge of history (an interesting attack considering that she was an expert on American and European history, regardless how soft her voice was).

[MADem]

25. Because first, it was not a "screed," and second, she WAS stupid when she did that.

It isn't "gracious" to suborn your own nation's sovereignty. It's stupidity. It's worse when you're a public figure, and people are likely to write about it.

Your standard for the term "tirade" is pretty low. I suppose if someone told you "We're out of milk" you'd term that a "tirade," as well?

[CTyankee]

28. Maybe I'm stubborn but I don't see Americans curtseying as a "courtesy."

Our revolution signalled our country's break from the whole idea of monarchs, ruling out of some archaic system and lineage, rather than our republican (small r) ideals. I don't want to see that sacrificed to some outworn idea of "courtesy."

[truebrit71]

34. Wrong, but thanks for the rant...

...:eyes:

It's called "protocol"....or should non-US citizens address Obama as "Wassup dood?" if that is their custom?

:eyes:

[MADem]

44. No, I'm not wrong. And protocol, if followed, dictates that you do as I say.

It's why George Washington froze his ass off fighting the British, so we wouldn't have to do that stupid shit anymore. It's why HRH ain't on our money, but Dead Presidents and other fair fellows of the Revolution are.

We don't call Obama "Your Majesty" you know. And we don't do "titles" either. His "title" is the quite plebian MISTER. Mister President, President Obama, or even Mister Obama. Plain, simple. Not puffed up.

If you want to call Obama "Wassup dood" go right ahead. You'll look like an ass in so doing, but there's no law against it.

So, yeah.... :eyes:

Here, some light reading for you: http://www.ehow.com/how_11184_greet-queen-england.html

[krabigirl]

40. Huh? Just shows that Americans are idiotic when it comes to customs of OTHER countries.

Hello?

[MADem]

43. It's not a "custom." It is an acknowledgement of SUBSERVIENCE.

Huh, indeed.

I don't know about your nationality or level of understanding of US history, but most Americans eschew "loyalty to the queen." It's why we had a little sumptin-sumptin called a Revolution, yo those many years ago.

Thought all the Tories were out the door by now...! Hello!!!

[KittyWampus]

50. she had rights and responsiblitie as a foreign dignitary. It's called protocol.

[MADem]

51. You're making no sense. And you're wrong.

Here's the proper "protocol" regarding how an American greets the Queen of England: http://www.ehow.com/how_11184_greet-queen-england.html

We are not subservient to the crown. Haven't been for over two hundred years. Didn't you learn that in your history class? We fought a revolution to free ourselves from that nonsense.

[EffieBlack]

14. And when she doesn't, it will be about 2 1/2 seconds before the Obama haters

light into both of them for being disrespectful, classless and "uppity" (of course, they'll never say "uppity" - they'll use their favorite euphemisms, such as "arrogant").

[Beacool]

16. She won't curtsy to the Queen.

It won't be expected of her. She's a First lady of the US, they do not curtsy to royalty. A polite handshake will do.

;-)

[Jackeens]

19. But will the President wink at the Queen?

:shrug:

[MADem]

26. That's actually a funny pic!!!

Maybe he'll play a little one-on-one B-ball with her!

[Arugula Latte]

49. "Hey Liz! High five! Up high down low to the side too slow! Heh heh heh..."

[wisteria]

20. Delete-double post.

[wisteria]

21. I haven't heard any criticism of Mrs. Obama.

She appears to be well liked. Who would criticize her for following protocol?

[EffieBlack]

22. Ummm . . .

:-)

[ClarkUSA]

24. Heads-of-state and their wives are considered equals to the Queen. Also, it's an informal gathering.

There are no curtsies required and anyone who says otherwise is ignorant or trolling for trouble.

[closeupready]

27. I'm fine with that. We let the Queen in without a passport.

Turnabout is fair play.

[sarge43]

30. Well, as British passports are issued in the monarch's name,

who would issue hers? :shrug:

[closeupready]

33. I don't know, and don't care. That's her problem.

We extend her a courtesy and she should appreciate it.

[sarge43]

36. Whatever.

[LaydeeBug]

29. She had better NOT curtsy to the queen....

I thought Americans don't bow to anyone? ;)

[jenmito]

31. She's not supposed to, but wait 'til the RWers get done lying about how she "dissed" the queen. n/t

[tomreedtoon]

46. Well, when right-wingers approach Limbaugh or Beck...

they have to bow low and kiss their asses. It's natural for them to believe that everyone must do the same before their lords and masters.

[Fleshdancer]

32. what a sad story

Given what Jacqueline had to endure, may Michelle never feel the need to curtsy to the Queen.

:(

[SoxFan]

35. She should give her a terrorist fist jab

:fistbump:

[EffieBlack]

42. That's funny!

[Orangepeel]

38. Non British subjects aren't supposed to curtsy. n/t

[ShortnFiery]

39. Royalty - in all it's forms - SUCKS!

:puke:

[pnwmom]

45. Too late, alas. I read somewhere that she did curtsy. n/t

[Vinca]

47. She was filmed - there was no curtsy. nt

[MADem]

54. She didn't curtsy. The queen put her arm around her, and she returned the favor.

The queen initiated the gesture.