Senate passes Kyl/Lincoln estate tax amendment to budget bill 51-48 with 9 Dems voting yes

[flpoljunkie]

The bill raises the estate tax exemption to $5 million for individuals and $10 million for couples and lowers the tax rate from 45% to 35%.

I am disgusted with our 'Conservadems' for voting for this Republican giveaway--even if it is a non-binding amendment as part of the budget resolution.

[ShortnFiery]

1. Oh this is BULLSHIT!

:grr: :puke:

Who are the TRAITOR Democrats who voted with the GOP?

[Ian David]

2. At least it's better than abolishing the estate tax all together.

Although I'd rather the exemption be $1.5 million for individuals, $5 million for family-owned farms.

[ShortnFiery]

3. NO! It shows that there are too many pro-WEALTHY first Democrats in our party.

Of all times when the rich should stand up for those of us who are hurting, THAT time is now.

This is just plain WRONG! No slack. :(

[rhett o rick]

43. BS. That's a stupid rationalization. Shame on you. This proves that the Democrats

don't have control of the Senate. With the blue turncoat dogs voting with the republiCons we are screwed.

[ShortnFiery]

54. What makes me thing that "give em hell" Harry Reid sort of orchestrated this waltz?

Sort of like his FAILURE to filibuster Alito? :grr:

[Ian David]

80. Not saying it's GOOD. Just that it's better tnan no estate tax at all.

And it takes the wind out of the sail of one of the Repukes' main campaign issues.

[rhett o rick]

96. Sorry, I was quite irritated. But I don't agree we should "take the wind out of " repukes sails by

giving them what they want.

[iamjoy]

4. I Like Estate Taxes

We ought to be rewarding work, not the fortune to be born to rich parents.

[ShortnFiery]

5. Yes, haven't we ENDURED the last EIGHT YEARS of The Bushies - TAX break WELFARE to the wealthy?

This is an insult to all Middle and Working Class Americans. :(

[sandnsea]

6. This is a good bill

It protects people who have built up a family business, maybe a family farm or tourist business that sits on valuable land - but doesn't reward the passing on of Bill Gates type wealth. It's a good compromise from abolishing the estate tax altogether.

[krispos42]

22. I would rather it didn't lower the tax rate, though.

In my ideal world, the exemption amount would be tied to the minimum wage. For example, the exemption amount should be, say, the federal minimum wage times 500,000 for single people, 1,000,000 for couples. At the current level, that would make the exceptions to be $3,275,000 and $6,550,000, respectively.


If the Waltons and Gateses and DuPonts want to pass on more wealth, let them argue for raising the minimum wage!





Of course, I also think that Congressional pay should be based on the minimum wage as well. Say, 25,000 times the minimum wage?

:evilgrin:

[rhett o rick]

47. This is an estate tax. It doesn't friggin matter how you family "built up it's fucking fortune".

The purpose of estate taxes is to prevent the formation of an aristocratic class. The founders favored estate taxes. If you inherit a multimillion dollar farm then you can postpone your taxes until you sell. Or take out a lean. You don't get to keep the multimillions, that is the purpose of estate taxes. Your rationalization is the right wing response. We need to kill the ruling class that is killing this country. Bring out the guillotines.

[justaregularperson]

48. Ding Sing Ding!! Estate taxes are necessary. Otherwise eventually you become a banana republic.

[Voltaire]

91. I love the smell of guillotine in the morning

The sooner the better, since trying to reason with the bastards HAS never and WILL never work.

[hay rick]

57. Shooting yourself in the foot is

so much better than shooting yourself in the head.

Call this vote what it is: a failure.

[rhett o rick]

62. This vote proves that the Senate favors the rich over the middle class. Fuck the Senate. nm

[DLnyc]

85. ?? By letting Bill Gates pass on an extra 7 billion dollars of his wealth ??

High top tax rates are needed to prevent the excessive concentration of wealth. Moving the rate down from 45% to 35% is a REALLY BAD MOVE! Not only does it cost the treasury some 250 billion (per NYT) but it will lead to significantly more concentration of wealth. An exemption on the low end is fine, but the top rate should be moved up to 55% or more, not lowered!

Basically, after you have several tens of millions, it should become very hard to get more. You DON'T need protection when you have that kind of money.

[KittyWampus]

87. Thanks, I argued in favor of this & got clobbered by DU'ers. My family, including MYSELF have worked

all our asses off over three generations here at our family business.

And because the ground under our feet has increased in value to astronomical heights, the Estate Tax I face is punitive.

We are NOT WEALTHY.

Fortunate, yes. A roof over our heads and bills mostly paid for.

But, the only way to see this supposed wealth would be if we sold this place and moved somewhere else. And we'd take our collective dedication to community service with us leaving this town that much poorer in terms of community.

After $5million for individual or $10 million for a couple I do NOT think the Estate Tax should be lowered, though.

[WCGreen]

95. I'm all for getting rid of the Estate Tax...

But only if they get rid of the bumped up basis of inherited capital assets..

[sandnsea]

7. It really is a good bill n/t

[ShortnFiery]

12. Obama stated that 98% + of family owned SMALL businesses are below 5 million.

Yes, we have ensured that that worthless waste of humanity, Paris Hilton, will always live a filthy rich life. To hell with everybody else. :thumbsdown:

Where is the outrage AMERICA as the conservative democrats and the GOP continue to filter all the money to the SUPER WEALTHY?

[sandnsea]

19. And so they're all protected

That's the point of the $5 million dollar number. The Hiltons will all pay a 35% estate tax because they are all worth much, much more than $5 million each. You get that, right?

[ShortnFiery]

23. No, no slack. During this great downturn, they should be taxed 50% at a minimum.

I find it absolutely disgusting that we "take care" of the people who have been given TAX WELFARE since the time of Ronald Reagan's Presidency.

We are fast approaching the full meshing of Big Business with Government. That, my fellow DUer, is the pure definition of FASCISM. :(

[sandnsea]

26. Save it for the increase in annual income tax fight

And the changes in corporate and off-shore tax haven fight. That's when they're really going to squeal. This is going to make a lot of small businesses incredibly happy, so let them believe Democrats gave them a tax cut. It's good.

[ShortnFiery]

32. No, I will not. You are asleep at the switch. We've been giving Tax Breaks to the wealthy for

FAR too long. You won't be satisfied until we "little people" are fighting each other for the scraps.

No, I will not SAVE IT. :grr:

[rhett o rick]

49. Bull Shit. The estate tax prevents the build up of wealth and power of families.

Our founding fathers recognized the need to prevent the accumulation of wealth in the prevention of dynasties. Idiots like GW bush get power because they inherit wealth. WRONG.

[sandnsea]

53. And they'll still be taxed

I'm baffled that people think 10% is going to make such a massive difference on the wealthy who are worth hundreds of millions of dollars.

[rhett o rick]

61. It is so unbelievable that so many Americans think that if you are wealthy then you are next to God.

Idiots.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

84. I didn't read that at all in Sand's comments.

I'm somewhat ambivalent about the bill - I buy neither the "death tax" arguments of the right, nor the "prevention of aristocracy" arguments on the left. But I think it's patently unfair to say Sand thinks the wealthy are "next to god". If you must disagree with Sand, you can do so in a much more respectful way.

[Dr.Phool]

93. You're absolutely right. Make them pay it.

Since they don't need it any goddamned way.

[rhett o rick]

63. Oh really. Please explain. nm

[w4rma]

94. No. It lowered the rate. It is absolutely *not* a good bill. The dollar is devaluing because of

our debt to other nations that need to be paid off and these idiots are lower taxes on the *only* people who can afford to pay it down.

[Baltoman991]

8. I am

livid watching this.

And now Durbins ammendment to create a point of order saying that those less fortunate, for lack of better words, should be given relief before anything is done with the Kyl/Lincoln ammendment and the same stupid ass pretend Democrats are voting against it.

Ok, on edit, the Durbin ammendment did pass thank goodness. But still, I see Pryor, both Nelsons, Lincoln et al voting against it and it's disturbing that they call themselves Democrats.

[flpoljunkie]

13. Lincoln and some other Conservadems changed their votes to Yes at the very end after it had passed.

[Baltoman991]

16. Thank you

I heard her the first time voting no and I missed her changing it. Thanks for the heads up.

[ShortnFiery]

17. It's like figuratively cutting "the non-investor classes" in half with a machine gun, then

offering us a band-aid. :puke: :grr: :nuke:

[Thrill]

9. They can pass this shit. But want to stop Obama's middle class tax cut

[ShortnFiery]

18. I'm livid and wish to find out exactly who are these ten FALSE Democratic Senators. nt

[Occam Bandage]

10. Inherited wealth is anti-American. nt

[cherokeeprogressive]

68. Kennedy. n/t

[LittleBlue]

11. They're going to have to raise it anyway. Not all people subject to the estate tax are that rich.

A 50 year old couple can have a business with assets worth $3 million, but is the sole livelihood for a family making $100k. If they auctioned off the assets, and paid taxes, they'd have perhaps $2.3 million, and that to live on for the rest of their lives, since by running a business they might have few/no marketable skills to get a new job. They'd have no retirement income, and no way other than dipping into savings to pay for healthcare and possibly disability.

What typically happens is that the couple dies, and leaves the business to the children, but since the children have little in the way of cash, the entire mom/pop business is sold at a fire sale for 1/2 the value.

It's really a tough area and not as easy as it looks.

[flpoljunkie]

14. Believe there hasn't been one actual case of family losing farm because of estate tax.

This is a Republican meme.

[sandnsea]

21. Because we protect them with our estate tax laws

and are continuing to as stock portfolios and property values rise (they will go back up). This is such a no big deal thing. We saved the estate tax on the wealthiest.

[ShortnFiery]

25. Yes, because WEALTH should be inherited if it's so called "small" = 10 million dollar businesses.

:thumbsdown:

[sandnsea]

28. When you start adding up equipment

You can get to $10 million pretty quickly with farm equipment, delivery trucks, processing plant, computers, business name value, copyrights, etc.

[ShortnFiery]

31. You just don't get it, do you? Our AMERICAN parents raise us to get an education and then

go out on our own. It is NOT "the American way" to promote the transfer of wealth via Family Dynasties.

Have you forgotten, we Americans, detested ROYALTY in the early days of our Nation's History?

This WEALTH give-away through the generations equates to the promotion of "a royal financial class" and it's just plain Un-American. :puke:

[sandnsea]

38. The transfer of wealth will be taxed at 35%

The ones who got an education and built up some assets, a home and vacation cabin, portfolio, rental house maybe, small business, will be able to pass them on to their children.

We've been fighting to keep the estate tax, with some adjustments. We Did That. Republicans were going to repeal it altogether, remember?

[ShortnFiery]

39. It's wrong. Hell! It's detestable when we have so many disenfranchised Americans.

To obsess on those who have MORE THAN 5 Million dollars.

There's a reason that we are going to FALL as a great nation: Our love affair with the WEALTHY.

It's just vile. :(

[KittyWampus]

89. So YOU dont belong to a family business & apparently ALL family businesses should be penalized

You are the one who is un-American.

And the argument isn't for NO Estate Tax.

It's for recognizing that real estate values have risen in some areas to insanely high rates that make passing on family businesses problematic.

[rhett o rick]

99. You need to study up on this before you continue. If the estate is worth 11 million the tax would

only be on 1 million dollars. Accumulation of family wealth is what our founders fought against. No dynasties like the bushes. It is unhealthy and unAmerican.

[justaregularperson]

37. You can make the argument that the exemption go up to 5 Million

But there is now no tax on 10 Million for a couple. Why in the world should we not tax or even lower the tax on what is OVER 10 Million?

So if they are worth 15 Million they pay no taxes on 2/3 of it and the taxes on the other 1/3 are lowered as well.

They get taxed on 15 million at an effective rate of 12%! Lower than many families who are struggling at 40k a year.
Baloney.

This is just another giveaway from the rich to the rich.

[sandnsea]

41. Maybe they built their wealth separately

Maybe two gay men in Massachusetts worked until their 40's, both built separate $5 million businesses. Then they got married. Why should they be taxed at a higher rate just because they got married?

[justaregularperson]

46. You are really stretching here.....

They are far more likely to have more assets than just the business. Your arguments are red herrings.

You sound very wealthy. Not that there is anything wrong with that. But your view sounds to me like it is a little biased. I see no justification for lowering this tax.

[sandnsea]

50. lol. I'm broke. Always have been.

I just don't have any desire to take wealth away from people who really did earn it. It's an ESTATE Tax cut, not just a small business estate tax cut. The $5 million includes assets beyond the business. If two separate people created careers that brought them wealth of $5 million each, it's reasonable to consider that situation for tax purposes.

[ShortnFiery]

64. Unbelievable. All I can say is, "Lambs to the slaughter."

[Raineyb]

69. Which was fine where it was and the limit did not need to be raised.

Why are you making excuses for this travesty of a vote?

Regards

[KittyWampus]

88. It most certainly is not. I live in the "Hamptons" where land value has gone insane.

OKAY OKAY... farms haven't been "lost". They've just been chopped into pieces to pay the fucking Estate Tax.

[ShortnFiery]

15. Bullshit! We have USA military veterans living on the street and you are crying over THE WEALTHY.

If you have a home to live in that is paid for, then you are WEALTHY. Your kids don't need to be as wealthy as you through YOUR money.

It's the big deception and you are falling for it.

When all the money is spent and all these Robber Barons and their families are tucked behind gated communities or out of the country, it will be too late.

[rhett o rick]

55. I agree totally. With children starving because of the selfishness of the wealthy

and we are worried abut the wealthy. Things are going to change or we will borrow guillotines from the french. FUCK THE RICH.

[rhett o rick]

51. First of all the children should earn their own fortune not inherit is like GWbush.

Second there are provisions for farms where the family doesn't have to sell. You arguments are right from the rich talking points.

[flpoljunkie]

20. AP: Senate Goes On Record to Lower Estate Tax (in nonbinding amendment)

Senate goes on record to lower estate tax

The Associated Press
Thursday, April 2, 2009; 8:57 PM

WASHINGTON -- The Senate has voted to cut taxes on multimillion-dollar estates as it gets ready to pass a budget backed by President Barack Obama.

By a 51-48 vote, the Senate embraced a nonbinding but symbolically important amendment by Arkansas Democrat Blanche Lincoln and Arizona Republican Jon Kyl to exempt estates up to $10 million from the estate tax. Estates larger than that would be taxed at a 35 percent rate.

Obama is proposing exempting estates up to $7 million and taxing larger ones at a 45 percent rate instead of the $2 million exemption and 55 percent rate slated to take effect in 2011.

Democratic leader Harry Reid brought ailing Sen. Edward Kennedy in for the vote and lobbied several of the nine Democrats who broke with the president without success.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/04/02/AR2009040203741_pf.html

[rhett o rick]

56. Names, I want names. nm

[burning rain]

24. Disgusting.

This is an excellent tax, since it's levied on dead people and thus causes them no distress whatever.

[ShortnFiery]

27. My parents were raised dirt poor. The GI bill assisted my dad's education and raised us up

to the middle class. My parents worked their butts off to ensure that they could support us through four years of college. I could expect no more from such dear people.

What do these spoiled "Paris Hilton" types know about real WORK if they don't have to worry about going out into the world on their own?

I'm just sickened by these democratic TRAITORS to the working people of America. It's truly UN-AMERICAN to pass on "financial royalty" to your offspring.

[sandnsea]

30. Paris Hilton is worth more than $5 million

I don't know why you think she's going to get anything tax free. This preserves the estate tax, it just cuts it a little bit.

[ShortnFiery]

33. You KNOW that this is a big give away to all wealthy as the VAST majority of small businesses ...

are under 5 million. Yes, Paris Hilton's dear fortune is now at a 35% vice a 45% tax rate. Hell, I wish it were taxed 90% because she is not "an asset" to the ranks of the rich.

[sandnsea]

34. Those OVER $5 million still pay the tax cut

and the VAST majority of small business are protected because they're valued at less than $5 million.

That's the entire point of the bill.

[ShortnFiery]

35. No, it cuts the overall estate tax rate from 45% to 35% = a death of a thousand cuts.

What other SOCIALIST give-aways via TAX break welfare can we give to the wealthy and their blessed children as our veterans sleep on the streets? :puke:

[justaregularperson]

42. Why lower the rate over 5 and 10 Million then?

So someone inheriting 15 Million pays just over 10% in taxes. That baloney.

[burning rain]

36. If one were to speculate as to what Paris Hilton would be doing....

absent a fat inheritance, it would probably seem rather tawdry. *biting tongue*

[KittyWampus]

90. Paris Hilton is worth FAR MORE than $5 million dollars. So stop bringing that canard up

[Danger Mouse]

29. Wow. That's uber lame.

[ProSense]

40. Roll call

here

[ShortnFiery]

44. Thanks. I find SOME comfort in the fact that neither VA senator supported this BUNK. nt

[stevedeshazer]

45. It's why we need more *progressive* Dems in Congress.

We need the blue dogs for now, but it's time for them to be challenged in the 2010 primaries by true blue progressive Democrats.

[hay rick]

52. DINO list

The vote here: http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=111&session=1&vote=00146

Guilty parties:
Baucus
Bayh
Cantwell
Landrieu
Lincoln
Murray
Nelson (FL)
Nelson (NE)
Pryor
Tester

[rhett o rick]

58. Akkkkkkkkkkk, Both Washington Senators. nm

[davidpdx]

78. Yeah, I'm a little shocked on that one too

Thankgod we are from Oregon, we outclassed them. Both Wyden and Merkley voted no.

[Thrill]

60. Pretty much the same ones standing in the way of single payer healthcare

[liskddksil]

73. Bayh and his cohorts need to be primaried. I'm sick of them.

[rhett o rick]

98. As far as I can tell, "primaried" has never been done. With the exception

of Lieberman and that didn't work even.

[Frank Booth]

75. Usual suspects.

How did Washington get stuck with such a DINO like Cantwell? I always thought it was a fairly liberal state.

[Yavin4]

59. Let's See It Get To The Final Bill

I'm going to wait until the final bill before I bitch and complain. Sometimes, a vote may be purely for political reasons to give a candidate cover, even though everyone knows that it will be taken out in the final version.

[MannyGoldstein]

65. Yeah!!! It's Great To Have Democrats Controlling Government!!!

Only the Democrats are Republicans.

[Hellataz]

66. What's worse is that 2 Dems actually voted for the GOP "fudget"

Who are these Democrats that have that amount of gall?

[PA Democrat]

67. So where will the lost tax revenues be made up?

More debt? The very people who voted FOR this bill have been screaming about deficit spending. Cuts to education? Cuts to entitlement programs?

The middle class and the poor are really struggling and THIS is their priority? Protecting inherited wealth? I don't care that it's better than eliminating the estate tax altogether, because this choice still has negative consequences for the rest of the country.

[Zodiak]

79. Let's not forget these are the SAME Democrats

who are against the President's middle class tax cut.

They represent the rich, period....Conservadems have ZERO democratic prionciples...they are Republicans place-holders that will occupy those seats as long as our cowardice and apathy lets them.

[neverforget]

70. Thank God the wealthy were helped! They have no power and no money

now with the recession being what it is. Is there anything else I can do to help the wealthy? Blood? Arms? Legs? Organ donation? Hopefully they will reinvest it and it will trickle down my leg.
:sarcasm:

[quakerboy]

71. nermind

should read, proscess info, then respond. mixing the order leads to problems

[MadHound]

72. Let's see here, cuts in estate taxes, more tax cuts in the stimulus bill,

Where again are we going to get the money to cut the deficit in have in four years as Obama said he would?

[depakid]

74. Hopefully the House roundly rejects this crap

With the next breathm the o called "conservadems" will be talking about fiscal "responsibility," i.e., slashing spending in the midst of a recession.

[usregimechange]

76. McCaskill was not one of them of course

[usregimechange]

77. I think this Durbin amendment may have trumped it

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=111&session=1&vote=00147

[flpoljunkie]

83. Interesting that Lincoln and others changed their votes to yes at the end.

To provide that no additional estate tax relief beyone that which is already assumed in this resolution, which protects over 99.7 percent of estates from the estate tax, shall be allowed under any deficit-neutral reserve fund unless an equal amount of aggregate tax relief is also provided to Americans earning less than $100,000 per year.

[rhett o rick]

97. Please explain for the slow people (me) nm

[acmavm]

81. Lower the estate taxes, raise the 'sin' tax on cigarettes.

[olegramps]

82. Why would you be surprised they lowered the tax rate?

It is just a pack of wealthy politicians on the dole that are protecting their ill gotten gains to pass them on to their legacy worthless brats like the Bushes. This includes Republicans and Democrats alike. The fact of the matter is the rate should have been increased in order to confiscate the millions that the CEOs have stolen from the stockholders of their bankrupt corporations. It will be a cold day in hell when that happens.

[ieoeja]

86. How can it be different for individuals vs couples?

The ESTATE is taxed. Not the inheritance. If 10 people inherit a $20 million dollar estate, they do not get a separate exemption for each heir. There is only one exemption for the entire estate.

So what in the world do they mean by a couple?

This does not make any sense.

[jsamuel]

92. I suppose it means that if the estate is owned by a married couple.

But it does seem confusing how this would work out unless both die at the same time.