It's been 70 days and Obama has already addressed three of my most important issues!

[leftofthedial]

1. He is giving supply-side money to Wall Street bankers faster than they can hand out bonuses and buy smaller banks. I think this is a BAD idea, and he should be using that money to create actual jobs for actual Americans instead of spending trillions on more trickle down, but Obama is doing it! I don't have to be patient!

2. He is talking about "looking forward" instead of insisting that his Justice Department and the Congress hold the bush cabal accountable for their crimes. This is criminal, but Obama is doing it! I don't have to be patient about this one either!

3. He is working hard to compel all of us to buy insurance from one of the rapacious companies that have turned our health care system into a (literally) sick joke. I think he should be getting them OUT of the business instead of guaranteeing them ALL the business forever and always, but Obama is doing it! I don't have to be patient!


What is it you don't have to be patient about?

[mix]

1. What about education?

Surely, you must be pleased.

[leftofthedial]

4. SCHIP-good

budget numbers--good


still have "standards" and NCLB--awful


Education is my fifth top issue, personally. Obama inherited such massively awful problems in so many areas, it's hard to know where to start trying to fix things (or in the case of the economy and rule of law and health care, making things worse).

[LWolf]

94. Education

is tied at the top, for me, with health care and peace.

And now, of course, the economy.

Of course, I'm a public school teacher, and what he does with education will harm me, and harm my students. I take it personally.

He certainly has moved swiftly on all of those issues, it's true.

How do you stop a runaway train going the wrong way, and point it in the right direction?

I wish I knew.

[Skittles]

2. I'm so glad he thinks offshore jobs are all low-paying menial ones

I don't have to worry that my high tech job will be offshored the third quarter of this year!!!

[Deja Q]

9. On that he's probably genuinely naive.

From OS programmers to DBAs to management types to designers... the legal profession... all of these types of jobs, and others, are not as "menial" as he and others want to believe.

Hell, people gripe about how poor phone support/service has become. Or various products. It's like standards and knowledge are bad things.

[leftofthedial]

10. There is no job that an American deserves!

American companies owe their only loyalty to this quarter's bonuses!

[Deja Q]

13. Ah, Carly Fiorina - the one who fucked up HP and got fired, complete with severance pay for doing so

[Skittles]

11. correct

he does seem very misinformed on exactly how offshoring works and who is being affected directly - or indirectly. I'd like to know what will become of America when no one is left in the IT profession. Fucking scary.

[Deja Q]

15. Or others. I'm taking Bill Gates' advice and studying more creative professions...

If we're to become "creative capitalism", that's where it's at.

I have an aptitude in mathematics, but if there's no money in using that aptitude, what's the point? (If CEOs can whine and bleat about salary caps and using "We'll lose our incentive" as an excuse, well so the frig can I and everyone else. :shrug: )

[OhioChick]

81. I hear you on that one, Skittles. n/t

[lostnotforgotten]

3. He Is Expanding The War In Afghanistan And Prolonging The War In Iraq

eom

[leftofthedial]

6. My personal number four issue.

And I'm not happy about what he's doing.

[Bicoastal]

14. Wait--how is he prolonging the War in Iraq? "Prolong" means to make longer.

And considering that the previous plan was to stay in Iraq "as long as necessary" (ie forever), I can't really see how he's making the war last longer by pulling out all combat troops by next year.

[lostnotforgotten]

17. Was 12 Months - Last Heard - Now 16 Months - Sounds Like A Prolongment To Me

eom

[Bicoastal]

20. When was it 12 months?

"Let me say this as plainly as I can - by August 31 2010, our combat mission in Iraq will end." That was in February. Was there some other announcement I hadn't heard about? As far as I know, this was the first announcement on the Iraq war he made while President. And Bush NEVER had a timetable for combat troops that ended before 2012.

[lostnotforgotten]

27. I Guess May Have Forgotten The Campaign Promises Already

eom

[Bicoastal]

31. You have no idea what his Campaign Promises were. I'm calling you out.

I did a Google Search, I looked on Wikipedia, I looked at records from the campaign website.

I see nothing about 12 months. I did find this, though, at barackobama.com:

"Barack Obama and Joe Biden believe we must be as careful getting out of Iraq as we were careless getting in. Immediately upon taking office, Obama will give his Secretary of Defense and military commanders a new mission in Iraq: ending the war. The removal of our troops will be responsible and phased, directed by military commanders on the ground and done in consultation with the Iraqi government. Military experts believe we can safely redeploy combat brigades from Iraq at a pace of 1 to 2 brigades a month that would remove them in 16 months. That would be the summer of 2010 – more than 7 years after the war began."

Don't even pretend it was scrubbed. Here's a link from DU in March 2008: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4945774

Unless you can prove otherwise, I'm going to assume you just pulled that 12 months figure out of thin air.

[lostnotforgotten]

35. Military Experts Are Not His Campaign Speeches - My You Are Clueless.

The so-called experts swayed him to lengthen the time we remain in Iraq.

[Bicoastal]

38. The burden of proof is on you. One last chance.

I've given you two examples--one from his campaign website, and one from March 2008 from this very website, that says 16 months. You've given me nothing.

Since he went ahead and gave a withdrawal date of combat forces for Summer 2010--and that date has not changed--it would appear that unless Obama made a statement about 12 months or a year in 2007, he has been consistent on this one.

YOU have to tell me, with a link, or a quote, when he said we'd be out of Iraq in one year. He has SHORTENED the war, not prolonged--before he made his speech in February, where he said 16 months, Bush was not going to even think about sending combat troops home until 2012.

[lostnotforgotten]

40. I Don't Accept Your Challenge So I Have No Burden Of Proof To Provide Anything

eom

[Bicoastal]

43. Gotcha. Ignored.

[lostnotforgotten]

45. Gotcha Ignored - You Ignorance Is What Is On Display, Not Mine

eom

[TLM]

59. No you made a claim...and he asked for a quote to back it up

and you dodged, whining you had no burden to prove the claims you make. I also don;t recall any 12 month timeline during the campaign. I remember 16 months being the timeline spoken of in the campaign speeches. So when i see someone ask you to back up your 12 month claim with a quote, and you can;t provide one, it makes you look like an uninformed fool who is just reflexively spewing hate.


Clearly you're here to attack and bash Obama, sans facts or support.

Ignoring trolls is the best course of action to reclaim DU from those who want to turn it into a hatefest attacking the democrats.

[jenmito]

80. Looks like he was playin' us all along. He seems to have left the thread without

showing us the quote of getting troops out in 12 months.

[MadBadger]

95. His campaign promise was always 1-2 brigades for 16 months

The 16 months number was extended when he took office.

[Deja Q]

23. I also have to wonder, in all fairness, what has caused the lengthening...

Not that I heard about "12 months" but he has access to facts the rest of us don't. Even at the end of the * tenure, while it was still likely a mistake for us to have gone in (I don't know), times have changed.

I'm giving President Obama the benefit of the doubt. Especially after the G20 meetings and doing his damndest to start to repair the damage the * admin caused, it's the very least I can do.

I'm just hopeful about the jobs thing...

[Bicoastal]

24. I've been looking all over the Internets and I don't think the "12 months" cutoff exists...

...yet I found a quote of him saying "16 months" back in March of last year, when he wasn't even President yet.

It leads me to say, look, you can be upset about these issues, but you can't be surprised by them. His stance on Afganistan and health care and others were well known to us when we voted for him in November. No major campaign promises have been broken--he has betrayed no one except for the people who didn't take his word at face value.

[lostnotforgotten]

28. Campaign Promises

eom

[Bicoastal]

32. Again, you're clueless. See above.

I'm going to stay on you for this, because this is criticism Obama simply does not deserve--it was a Campaign Promise, and he kept it.

[lostnotforgotten]

34. Stay On Me All You Want - Obama Said We Would Be Out Within A Year - 16 Months Is Not A Year!

eom

[endersdragon]

25. What about his "residual forces"

Say what you will, if there are residual forces there (possibly indefinately certainly no time has been announced on getting them out) there will be combat troops there.

[lostnotforgotten]

36. Bingo - I Did Not Bring This Up Because Our Obama Cheerleaders Don't Understand That Out is Out!

eom

[Deja Q]

16. Morally, we need to capture OBL (thanks bush for saying he no longer interested you back in 2002)

As for Iraq; bush also started that unnecessarily. (was he lying when he parroted what Al Gore said in 1992 about Saddam and his lovely collection of WMDs?)

[jenmito]

19. He's keeping his promise about concentrating on Afghanistan. He is ending the war in Iraq. n/t

[lostnotforgotten]

30. He Has Extended The Amount Of Time For Iraq Withdrawal - He Is Escalating Afghan

eom

[jenmito]

33. He's ending the war in Iraq like he said he would. He SAID he would concentrate

on Afghanistan and increase our troops. He's keeping his promises (he's getting out of Iraq in 19 months instead of 16).

[lostnotforgotten]

37. See - He Has Extended The War In Iraq - Why Do We Need To Escalate The War In Afghan?

eom

[jenmito]

44. No-he is ENDING it. He set a timetable to get all combat troops out. We need to CONCENTRATE

on Afghanistan because Bush DIDN'T and those who attacked us got stronger instead of weaker.

[lostnotforgotten]

46. No He Has Not - See Threads Below - My Your Ignorance Is Deep And Wide

There is no point in talking with a person like yourself.

[jenmito]

48. Nice ad hominum attack which is against the rules. He has set a timetable to get out all

combat troops out in 19 months. I couldn't care less what your opinion of me is.

[lostnotforgotten]

52. You started The Attacks With Badgering - But The Facts Remain - All Troops Will Not Leave Iraq

You really need to do more in depth research.

[jenmito]

55. I never made ANY attack on you-ad hominum or otherwise. I never "badgered" you. You attacked

me with a personal insult. That fact remains. And he NEVER said ALL troops will leave Iraq. We can end the war with residual forces there.

[lostnotforgotten]

58. Your Proof Is Listed Below - Now Back Off!

eom

[jenmito]

63. As I replied below: "Code Pink Says..."???

:rofl: I saw your claim up-thread that Obama promised to get troops out in 12 months! That's false. Now Back Off! :eyes:

[Political Heretic]

41. I don't get this "He SAID he would do this" as though that's a defense.

He was WRONG then.
He is WRONG now.

[jenmito]

47. It IS a defense because it's not as if he's breaking a promise and if you are mad that

he's not doing something that he never said he'd do, that's YOUR problem.

[Political Heretic]

57. So what? I don't get to speak out about policies I don't agree with?

I think Obama should rethink his position.

And I'm probably going to keep saying that either for the next eight years or, god willing, until he changes direction in Afghanistan...

I've said many other places that no one should be shocked about his war policy. But that in no way means I'm going to stop opposing it. Why would you expect something different? That's just silly.

[Political Heretic]

39. Ending? When was this? Keeping indefinite residual forces is not "ending."

Sorry.

[lostnotforgotten]

42. Thank You For Factually Stating Truths That Others Don't Want To Admit Exist

eom

[jenmito]

50. Again-he's doing what he said. He always said he'd keep a residual force there in case

they're needed.

[lostnotforgotten]

53. Well Then - By Your Own Admission That Is Definitely Not All Troops Out - So Which Is It?

eom

[jenmito]

66. It's ending the war by getting all combat troops out! I saw all your posts above and you've

been proven wrong in every conversation.

[lostnotforgotten]

71. Hardly - I Have Just Proven You Wrong With Three Sources Of Information

More Proof - 16 moths to 19 months.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5huMMPNr5VdTibnqbqMIse2rqq2-QD972H6V80

[jenmito]

74. Thank you for admitting you were wrong. He went from 16 to 19 months LIKE I SAID. Not 12 months.

[lostnotforgotten]

54. Here Is Your Proof - Back Off!

http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2009/03/387089.shtml

[jenmito]

60. "Code Pink Says..."???

:rofl: I saw your claim up-thread that Obama promised to get troops out in 12 months! That's false. Now Back Off! :eyes:

[lostnotforgotten]

62. You Asked For Proof - You Have It - Code Pink Tracks These Things And You Do Not

eom

[jenmito]

64. Wrong again-that was Bicoastal who asked for proof and SHE gave YOU proof that

YOU are wrong.

[lostnotforgotten]

67. More Proof He Said 2009 - More Proof He Is Extending Longer Than 16 Months

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WYTKj8pU5M

http://www.newsweek.com/id/186716

You really need to do your research because you are not looking very hard.

[jenmito]

70. I can't watfch the video now. Can you quote where he said he'd get the troops out by 2009? n/t

[lostnotforgotten]

72. Towards The End!

eom

[jenmito]

73. Can you quote it? You posted the article. I can't find it. n/t

[jenmito]

77. What's wrong? You've been making it up all along?

:rofl:

[TLM]

65. Still waiting for a quote from obama...

When did Obama ever say he'd have "ALL troops out of Iraq by the end of 2009."

these bashers cite a website where there are still no quotes from obama, just other haters repeating the same claim that he said it... yet still no quote.


Where's the quote?

Cite the quote where obama said, "ALL troops out of Iraq by the end of 2009." or admit you are lying to prop up your hate based attacks.

[Political Heretic]

79. I'm pretty sure that never happened. I've never heard anything earlier than 2010

Even on the campaign trail...

PS - please don't conflate me with this poster. You said a bunch about me lying and making up quotes in your post to me and I have never done so. The person saying he said all troops out in 2009 and I are not the same person.

[TLM]

61. According to that "logic" we never ended war with Japan...

We still have thousands of troops in Japan.... so are we still at war with them?

Are we still at war with Germany?

Do you even understand the meanings of the words you are using or are you being willfully ignorant to prop up baseless unfounded attacks on democrats?


The lengths some people will go to here in order to bash obama is simply amazing. Make crap up, invent quotes, redefine terms... all to spew hate at the DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENT. Why are you here? Aren't there tons of hate sites for spewing ignorant hate at democrats?

Did you perhaps miss the name on the site? This isn't socialist far left underground where we sit around in a circle and hate democrats. This is a democratic site for people who support democratic candidates and leadership.

[Political Heretic]

78. We need to bring our soliders home.

They need to come home from Japan.

They need to come home from Germany.

They need to come home from Iraq.

Now, that's true - even setting aside the fact that the mission parameters for "residual" forces in Iraq according to plans for withdraw include a much broader scope of military mission that our peacetime soldiers stationed comfortably on military bases in allied countries.

Of course, you know this.

All your other bitching, doesn't have anything to do with me. My posts are reasonable, and I go between both praise of Democrats and this administration, that I voted for and that I support, and criticism of both, which is not only my right, its my duty as a responsible citizen.

Contrast that to people such as yourself, who flip out and get so pissed when someone dares to question anything, that you tell them they should leave in a "love it or leave it" "with us or with the terrorist" sort of dumbass way that I thought only conservative idiots did.

It's interesting how you throw out a lot of generalized accusation in an attempt to assassinate my own character. Make crap up? Nope. Invent quotes? Nope and you cannot point to one single place where I've ever done that. Ever. Redefine terms? What does that even mean?

[the other one]

5. He addressed Marijuana legalization

by mocking the priorities of the on-line community that was so instrumental in winning him the nomination and the election.

This is your constituency on drugs.

[leftofthedial]

7. That was kind of disappointing, que no?

Kind of like the way he's consistently insulted the GLBT community...

[TLM]

69. Yeah he hates gays...

I heard obama walked by a congressman who doesn't support gay marriage, and Obama didn't even spit on him.

Clearly obama wants gays killed... because he hates them.

:nopity:
For fuck's sake...

[leftofthedial]

83. nice strawman.

I never said he "hates gays."

But he has disappointed them several times.

For fuck's sake.

[leftstreet]

18. LOL "This is your constituency on drugs"

Nice one!

:thumbsup:

[TLM]

68. Yeah he did....

He cracked a joke, in response to a question about full legalization as a solution to the economy.

AND he also backed off any federal interference in states with medical use laws... and the clinics are already opening back up in my city.

So thank you Obama for making more progress on this issue in 70 days than has been made in the last 8 years.

[polichick]

8. You're right - all these things are being swept under the red carpet...

...the President has been walking on lately ~ if you haven't watched Bill Moyers show, please do (if you can stomach it).

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5389122&mesg_id=5389122

[Deja Q]

12. Oh nuts...

:(

:( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :(

[leftofthedial]

21. I've been explaining the S&L scam to some 20-somethings lately

They can't believe the same crooks keep ripping us off and getting away with it.

[jenmito]

22. It's been 70 days and you've been complaining about Obama every one of 'em. n/t

[leftofthedial]

26. Please be fair.

I started complaining when he named Geithner (with Summers leering over his shoulder) and was compelled to say, "WTF?!?"

That was way more than 70 days ago.

Also be fair and recognize that I've praised him at times too.

[lostnotforgotten]

29. Yes - Because He Is Not Moving Fast Enough And Is Not Living Up To His Promise Of Transparency

eom

[rhett o rick]

51. Do you think the President should bailout the banks? Ignore the war crimes of the bush

administration?

[TLM]

75. The bank bailout started in sep of 08

Wasn't obama's call... but then when have facts ever gotten in the way of haters spewing hate.

[rhett o rick]

82. Please quote where I ever "spewed hate". I asked two fair questions.

You didn't answer either. In spite of the fact that the bailouts started before his presidency, do you think he should continue?
Instead of name calling, state your case.

[leftofthedial]

88. Every second of the bailout has been Obama's call since January 20.

The continuing flow of largesse for bankers was a foregone conclusion ever since he chose Larry Summers as his chief economic advisor in 2007 and cemented when he chose Geithner as Secretary of the Corporate Giveaway, er, Treasury in November of 2008.

This has nothing to do with "hate."

Address the actual issues and save the ad hominem for your cell meetings.

[rhett o rick]

86. So I take it you don't want bush tried for war crimes, or you like bailing out the crooked banks and

insurance companies? Or are you willing to wait patiently for Pres Obama to change his direction on these issues? What is your stand?

[leftofthedial]

93. Don't expect a rational reply to these concerns.

The Obama defenders don't care. They'll just call you names, make wild accusations about you and your motives and ignore issues altogether.

[Cha]

49. I knew this would be some shit

negative post..you're so obviously soured.

[AtomicKitten]

56. #2: You are drawing a conclusion prematurely.

He is releasing provocative torture memos from the prior administration. He is still staffing Justice with some resistance from the Rs. The World is weighing in. The U.S. is trying to get a seat on the Human Rights Council and, hopefully, will opt back in to the International Court.

You are cherry-picking what he has said on this as you failed to mention he has reiterated no one is above the law. Pressing the issue prematurely would have gotten us a Truthiness Commission when we want a Special Prosecutor. Slow and deliberate works for me.

As to the rest of it, I have my own opinion that I really don't care to share here. I think some people here forget that Obama has to deal with the uber-resistant Republicans and the ConservaDouches and does not, in fact, have a magic wand. It's the way our system of government works and it would behoove people to be mindful of that.

[masuki bance]

76. There was a time on DU when a thread like this would be locked

[firedupdem]

84. You should probably be searching for a candidate you can support

in 2012. These negative threads everyday aren't getting much accomplished.

[leftofthedial]

89. thank you for the advice.

[Hanse]

85. Maybe you should find a different party.

[leftofthedial]

90. Maybe you should.

[tekisui]

87. You are turning into a johnnie one-note.

I appreciate honest criticism, but I don't see how this thread adds anything that wasn't in one of your many, many other threads.

[leftofthedial]

91. I appreciate honest criticism too.

Do you have a response to the subject of the thread, or just the usual meta comment?

[dionysus]

92. if i didn't know better i'd say you didn't like obama much...

:rofl: