I will put myself out there; I am NOT getting bent out of shape over the wiretapping - why?

[oviedodem]

I knew based on his vote during the election that he would likely keep the rules. I also knew

that EVERY SINGLE DEMOCRAT RUNNING EXCEPT KUCINICH WOULD KEEP THE WIRETAPPING!!!

I am well aware of the implications of this and our civil liberties, but I am willing to pass judgment in 2012.

Folks, I am a big picture person and considering some of the other things he has got done or is slated to tackle I am not going to lose sleep here.

I can take one broken promise over dozens that other politicians have done through the years. Please remember that he has 4 years to change the game regarding this.

RELAX.

[Skittles]

1. here we go!!!

[oviedodem]

2. I take it your not happy.

[Skittles]

42. it's "you're"

and no, I am not

[kid a]

45. ooooooo....grammar police.....

fun

:sarcasm:

[Skittles]

52. we make fun of freepers for their grammar mistakes

we should correct our own

[oviedodem]

51. sorry.... typing fast.

[MannyGoldstein]

3. Which Things That He's Done Give You Confidence?

I'm getting awfully concerned. I don't want to be.

[oviedodem]

7. guantanamo, health care, energy, torture, education, scaling back Iraq

He promised to go into Afghanistan so everyone should be aware of this.

The fact the his DOJ at least has some level of MORALS.

[Dinger]

24. Education?

arne duncan=FAIL

rural schools=SCREWED

[FrenchieCat]

27. We don't even have an Education policy yet!

Arne Duncan fails just because? :shrug:

My sig for you.....

CYNIC = One who is prematurely disappointed with the future!

[Dinger]

36. True, And That's A Good Thing Because

it looks like the education policy we'll get is pretty much set. arne duncan is indeed a "privatizer, union buster, and corporate stooge." http://schoolsmatter.blogspot.com/2008/12/arne-duncan-privatizer-union-buster-and.html

margaret spellings in drag:
http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/Bridging-Differences/2009/02/is_arne_duncan_really_margaret.html

And duncan can shove his corporate model of schooling up his ass too:
http://www.truthout.org/121708R

And he can fucking forget militarizing schools too:
http://www.tomdispatch.com/post/175022

deregulation of charter, not public schools? Fuck that:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5257625&mesg_id=5257625

Obama Slam-Duncans Education (Greg Palast):
http://www.gregpalast.com/update-obama-slam-duncans-education/



Shit, the list goes on and on. I wish President Obama would reconsider, I really do.





We sure have enough clues already from duncan, who headed the most militarized public school system in the country, never attended a public school himself, wants merit pay, charter schools, and other such bullshit. Fuck that.

[biopowertoday]

60. I agree Dinger. I was and am so upset by

the arne duncan pick!! But we had a big clue during the primaries when Obama was in Milwaukee and he said he would consider charter schools. Most did not listen then.

[Dinger]

68. Well, Just Because We're Stuck With duncan't, Doesn't Mean

I have to support him, and I'll do whatever I can to make him CHANGE his policy and give me some HOPE.

[biopowertoday]

72. agree also.

[Fire1]

76. We 'heard' that he would 'consider' charter schools. We

did not expect that to translate into screwing the public school system.

[Dinger]

78. Touché Fire1

He won't get away with it without a fight, I can promise you that!

[LWolf]

69. Thanks for all those links, Dinger.

Let's hope enough people keep speaking out to bring the truth about Duncan to more people.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[Dinger]

71. You're Very Welcome

I have many more. I just gave a little teaser in that post.:)

[oviedodem]

30. His thoughts and ideas regarding education are LIGHT YEARS ahead of

what we saw and heard the last 8.

[Dinger]

37. Really?

http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/Bridging-Differences/2009/02/is_arne_duncan_really_margaret.html

"I have been watching and listening to our new secretary of education, trying to understand his views on the most important issues facing our schools and the nation's children. I wanted to believe candidate Barack Obama when he said that he would introduce real change and restore hope. Surely, I thought, he understood that the deadening influence of No Child Left Behind has produced an era of number-crunching that has very little to do with improving education or raising academic standards.

We truly need change and hope. I thought he understood. He chose to keep his own children far from NCLB. He decided to send them to a private school in Washington, D.C., that shuns the principles and practices of NCLB.

However, based on what I have seen to date, I conclude that Obama has given President George W. Bush a third term in education policy and that Arne Duncan is the male version of Margaret Spellings. Maybe he really is Margaret Spellings without the glasses and wearing very high heels. We all know that Secretary Spellings greeted Duncan's appointment with glee. She wrote him an open letter in which she praised him as "a fellow reformer" who supports NCLB and anticipated that he would continue the work of the Bush administration. (Recall, Deborah, that the media today defines an education reformer as someone who endorses Republican principles of choice and accountability.)"

[Stinky The Clown]

38. Healthcare

Please expand on that.

[oviedodem]

39. At the least he is putting a whole lot of money into healthcare into his

budget. No way in hell McCain would have done that. Granted his healthcare is a hybrid type system but it is a hell of a lot better than what we have now.

[Stinky The Clown]

41. I think he's utting into insurance, not healthcare

But I could be wrong.

Am I?

[biopowertoday]

59. hogwash. we need actuall health car NOW, not digitalized records.

[Stinky The Clown]

80. You reference "his healthcare" as if you know what it is. So, please tell me .....

.... what is his plan?

How is it better than McCain's (another fact you aver).

[NavyDavy]

4. i agree....

[derby378]

5. With the stroke of a pen, Obama could pull the fucking plug

We didn't elect the intelligence community to run the United States. We elected Barack Obama. Now it's time for him to start answering to the people.

[oviedodem]

10. When you consider how many conservadems screwing up his other

plans, I refuse to have a coronary over this --- yet.

[FrenchieCat]

6. I'm just waiting for the judge to rule against the Obama administration...

after all, they just gave him a reason to....


"the Department Of Justice's second argument that is the most pernicious. The DOJ claims that the U.S. Government is completely immune from litigation for illegal spying — that the Government can never be sued for surveillance that violates federal privacy statutes.

This is a radical assertion that is utterly unprecedented. No one — not the White House, not the Justice Department, not any member of Congress, and not the Bush Administration — has ever interpreted the law this way."
http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2009/04/obama-doj-worse-than-bush

I'm wondering if this ridiculous argument was done to force the judge to rule against the Obama Administration on this? I wrote to the White House and sent them this particular article.

Now, I wait.

[soccermomforobama]

47. I have always thought that the reason the Obama adminstration

was keeping this case open was so that the courts could make a ruling on the matter. While I know many of us would love for him to sign an executive order stopping the wiretapping, it is better played out in the courts.

[tomp]

73. that seems like apples and oranges.

he could easily stop wiretapping going forward. the litigation is about past occurrences. the judge's ruling will be based, hopefully, on current law regarding claims against past actions. obama is not only not stopping wiretapping going forward, but in addition, is defending Bush on past actions. both are wrong, imo. what am i missing?

[bertman]

79. Soccermom, the fact that our President, the Constitutional lawyer who has sworn an oath

of allegiance to the Constitution of the U.S., would wait for the courts to rule on this is beyond alarming.

These violations of our rights were implemented by a President and can easily be undone by this President. Please explain to me why he should wait for "the courts" to rule on it.

P.S. What if the five brethren on the Supreme Court decide that it's okay to make our republic an authentic, Presidentially-mandated and Supreme Court-validated Police State? Are we trying to emulate the Soviet Union, The Peoples' Republic of China, Burma, or Saudi Arabia?

[Dangerously Amused]

8. I'm guessing the big name Republicans are hoping like hell he'll get rid of the program.

Particularly the domestic terrorist ones (ie Bush, Cheney et.al) That will make it harder to give them a taste of their own medicine.

[xchrom]

9. the spying and eaves dropping is now

obama's spying and eavesdropping.
it wasn't right when bush began it -- it isn't any more right because obama owns it now.

[oviedodem]

12. I hear and understand what you are saying but there are bigger fish

he has to worry about right now.

[xchrom]

16. there's isn't anything much bigger than the 4th ammendment -- nt

[Skip Intro]

22. And they are?

[Two Americas]

64. bigger fish

There are no fish big enough to warrant dismissing the Bill of Rights. Ever. "We have bigger fish to fry" is always the excuse. It is the excuse that the Bush administration used.

"Don't get me wrong, I support the Bill of Rights, BUT..."

"Don't get me wrong, I oppose Monsanto, BUT..."

"Don't get me wrong, I support gay rights, BUT..."

"Don't get me wrong, I am against the war, BUT..."

"Don't get me wrong, I support public education, BUT..."

"Don't get me wrong, I support Labor, BUT..."

"Don't get me wrong, I support the teachers, BUT..."


...

[NavyDavy]

11. to many on du lately attack the pres over everything he does

no matter good or bad and its the same 3 or 4 people leading the pack and we all know they are!

[FrenchieCat]

14. You better believe it! :)

Is expected anytime now......

[KansasVoter]

13. LOL....so the others would have kept them so it os OK! LOL.....are you drunk??

[oviedodem]

15. No I don't drink and I am being realistic about our current and past situations.

[KansasVoter]

18. LOL.....you know we voted for him because we thought he was different?? You must have missed that!

[oviedodem]

20. I still voted for him and defend him vigorously knowing he was likely to do

this and will do so tomorrow and the next day.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

17. Obama isn't keeping the wiretapping.

The DoJ filed a motion to dismiss the lawsuit.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5411395&mesg_id=5411395

If you read the actual motion, the wiretapping has been discontinued.

[oviedodem]

21. thanks for the clarification

[JimGinPA]

33. Thank You!

:applause:

[Avalux]

35. Thanks. n/t

[firedupdem]

49. You should make this a new post. n/t

[marimour]

50. thanks. wish people around here would read it instead of just reacting to the MSM

[vaberella]

63. You definitely need to make this it's own post and DU is full of reactionists. n/t

[Number23]

65. So are you saying that this "Raw Story" that so many have been posting all over this site

the past day or so is wrong??

[Sparkly]

77. No, the so-called "Terrorist Surveillance Program" of the Bush admin has been "inoperative"

Doesn't mean there is no wiretapping occurring, with warrants or without them.

[Marie26]

19. Me either

It's not a surprise. As soon as Obama voted to give immunity for the Bush warrentless wiretaps, I knew he was planning to continue the same policy once he became President. That's the thing about power - once it is amassed in an office, it's very very difficult to take it back. Politicians don't act to lessen their own power. They just don't. Obama won't either. When Bush authorized warrentless wiretaps, he basically changed & increased the power of the Presidency forever.

[Sparkly]

23. "They just don't."

They could, and in cases like this, they should.

[Marie26]

29. Could they? Yes. Should they? Yes. Do they? No.

Do you have a good example where a leader gave up a power given to his office? I'm very cynical about power & basically adhere to that saying: "Power corrupts & absolute power corrupts absolutely". Once someone is given an absolute power, they don't tend to give it back voluntarily.

[Sparkly]

32. So you think Obama is corrupt?

After just three months in office?

[Marie26]

82. I think power is corrupting

Instantly. The founders were cynical, too, which is why they were so big on the whole "separation of powers." The Judicial & Legislative branches can act as a check on Executive power - because the Executive leader will not do it himself. The problem here is that the Congress is spineless, but I still have hope that the Supreme Court will do the right thing & rule against Obama here.

[Jennicut]

25. Biden voted against FISA as did Dodd.

So not the "entire field of Dems" would have kept this in place. Maybe Biden can talk some sense into him.

[oviedodem]

28. I bet my life that if dodd ofr Biden got elected they would have done the same

thing. The vote became easy when they were out.

[Jennicut]

31. Probably.

Still wish Obama would rethink this.

[Beacool]

54. As did Hillary..........

This is what she said at the time:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=3593154


;)

[Cha]

26. That's

refreshing of you as the saga continues.

From another Big Picture person.

[kikiek]

34. I'm not either. Big difference for me is I trust Obama. Things may not be fixed as quickly

as some are expecting and down right demanding. But I believe that Obama is working hard, actively involved, and will make the right decisions. He is working his ass off every day and is putting every ounce of energy he has into trying to fix this country. A striking difference from the past 8 years. We had no one looking out for us.
I don't pretend to know what is behind every decision he makes. I do know I trust him.

[oviedodem]

40. The man said during the campaign that there would be times when

the left would disagree; this is one of those times.

[Skip Intro]

53. No. Just no. nt

[Norquist Nemesis]

58. Same here... even though I want my pound of flesh

given the enormous amount of shit all tangled up that he has to go through, it's going to take some time. There's also a difference between what Bush did (without warrants and with a big FU) and only providing super-secret briefings to a select few members of Congress. I may not like what/how Congress made what was illegal to be allowed, but I'm going to trust Obama's administration not to abuse it. I have no reason to distrust him at this point (unlike my utter lack of trust for Bush/Cheney/Rove/Gonzo etal to use every means at their fingertips to use the "tools" for political gain).

What a mess we've all be left with. :(

[Clio the Leo]

43. As an aside....

... I wonder how many of us here have seen his entire speech before the Turkish Parliament on Monday?

I realize one does not negate or "excuse" the other, but I'm still so blown away by that one that it will be quite a while before anything really upsets me.

That was amazing.

http://www.c-spanarchives.org/library/index.php?main_page=product_video_info&products_id=285131-1&showVid=true

[kid a]

46. I watched it. Great message.

[empyreanisles]

44. Word. K&R.

[kid a]

48. (k & r) KICK and RECOMMEND

:hi:

[TankLV]

55. "You can't always get what you want"...

Nobody is going to get everything fucking thing.

I'm hot happy with a lot of the crap that's continuing...

but I still like 80-90 percent of what he's doing - and I smile a lot everytime I hear what he's doing...!!!

I'd say the glass is more than half full...!

[BostonMa]

56. Amen. Everybody can't complain if their pet issue isn't tackled.

[Lyric]

57. You're full of it. Clinton, Biden and Dodd voted against it.

You assume that everyone else would have kept wiretapping, but your assumption is bullshit.

[Divine Discontent]

61. I respect your opinion. I do not like what pres O has done so far about this, and I reference one

thing he said - that he did NOT BELIEVE that pres. b*sh had done anything illegal, BUT that if he got into office they would certainly look at anything that was brought up and determine if anything was done that shouldn't have.

I thought he was saying that to go above the fray over it all, but once he got in, that his wording implied that if they did break the law, that justice would be enacted. There is time for that still to happen this year, and it may, but with the econ crisis, understandably, taking his time, I think he's thinking big picture too. We all know that they lied to go to war - and tortured. They should be held accountable in court for it.

[Raineyb]

62. Well, as long as they tell you that they plan to ignore the constitution ahead of time

then it's okay.

:eyes:

Whatever. Enjoy your surveillance state.

Regards

[LittleBlue]

66. Good luck to Pres. Obama getting re-elected if he doesn't reverse fast on this

because I, and many others, will not be there to support him on election day.

With a knife in my back, I just may be in too much physical pain to donate either.

[empyreanisles]

67. Obama == looking forward. Getting things done; Obama != Pointless Revenge

Remember.

[Dinger]

74. Revenge Doesn't Work, But Justice Does

I don't want "revenge," I want justice. Revenge can be pointless, but Justice NEVER is.

That is all.:patriot:

[LWolf]

70. Too bad that voters

like corporatists better than the one principled Democrat they could have chosen, then.

"Bent out of shape?" I'm not surprised, of course. I'm also not pleased, and I'm not okay with it.

I wasn't okay with the nomination of this center-right corporate/3rd way/new dem, for this very reason.

This is one of the many reasons I don't support his center-right corporate/3rd way/new dem administration.

[blindpig]

75. Then I'd say that there is something seriously wrong

with every Democrat except Kucinich.

Your trust is child-like.

[jesus_of_suburbia]

81. Clinton voted against FISA.... so did Biden and Dodd..

:shrug:

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

84. fair point

[tbyg52]

83. I'm not relaxed, but I do see your point. nt