This pirate/hostage incident is critical

[Truthiness Inspector]

This is not small stuff. Multiple lives are at stake in this incident as we speak and type, an incident that keeps growing by the hour.

I am angry that President Obama is not dropping the hammers of hell on these lawless THUGS.

President Obama, I beseech you, PLEASE, crush them, make them understand that they cannot capture and hold hostage innocents from any country, that ransoms are not even a consideration...shut it the fuck down. PLEASE.

[tabatha]

1. Obama is letting the experts handle this.

[Truthiness Inspector]

6. He is the President of the United States

And has said nothing personally as the threat continues to get worse.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

71. Forget Obama: WWCKD (What would Captain Kirk do)?

[Supersedeas]

86. here, I thought you wanted him to put his THOR outfit on and leap halfway round the globe

to drop the hammer of HELL on them

[backscatter712]

7. Indeed. This is a messy, yet delicate situation.

On the one hand, we do want to get them to free the captain they're holding hostage, but on the other hand, if we give them the $2M ransom they're demanding, that's just going to encourage the Somali pirates to commit more piracy.

[Hippo_Tron]

58. Somali piracy is going to continue no matter what we do here

There will be fewer pirates because it becomes more dangerous if the US commits itself to a zero tolerance of pirates policy, but they will still do it. But fewer pirates isn't worth the dead hostages that will result from these constant rescue missions. $2 million is the cost of doing business. Just pay the damn ransom and move on.

Also as I understand it, the shipping company pays the ransom, not the government.

[backscatter712]

70. The key is to reestablish sane government in Somalia.

Though I admittedly have no idea how to make that happen - military intervention doesn't seem to be a very good option since the last time we went to Somalia, it turned into a major clusterfuck.

But if there was a proper government in Somalia, they could have a coast guard that did things like protecting fishing grounds from waste dumping, for example, so Somalis could make a living fishing instead of pirating. Humanitarian aid could be distributed properly instead of being seized by warlords, etc. etc. etc.

[Drunken Irishman]

2. Obama should nuke 'em!

[AtomicKitten]

5. Hell yes!!!

[NYC Liberal]

27. RIGHT FUCKING NOW!!!1

[ChimpersMcSmirkers]

84. And then Teabag 'em for good measure.

[Hamlette]

109. Are you nuts? He should nuke France. Or Sweden. Damn socialists.

Unless they can prove they don't have any pirate movies.

[here_is_to_hope]

3. Its a petty crime. I am sorry if people get hurt

but jeez, we already have 100's there now and ships and Dog knows what.
People are robbed and killed daily in America, how do we crush those 'pirates'?

[mkultra]

15. i think a guided missile frigate would be pretty conspicuous on 5th avenue

[Norrin Radd]

53. lol

[wisteria]

It is not petty crime. They are armed with automatic weapons and demand ransoms as much as a few

million dollars. And, the hijackings are getting more and more frequent and the pirates more and more sophisticated in their tactics. We need to address this matter-there is nothing petty about it.

[Jennicut]

66. Right now the larger issue is the man's life. Attack the boat and he could end up dead.

Get him and the other hostages they have (yes, they have many more) out of harm's way and then attack them.

[me b zola]

103. You mean like DV cases where men take hostages...

...that happen every single day in the US? How about bank robbers and other domestic criminals that take hostages? Should POTUS be involved with every single hostage situation that involves Americans?

This is freaking ridiculous.

The issue of piracy needs to be addressed as the President builds relationships with other nations and their leaders. But outcome of this particular criminal case does not lie at the doorstep of the WH.

[bluestateguy]

4. It is being handled

There are lives at stake, and bravado is not always the best answer. The real world is not an episode of 24.

[Truthiness Inspector]

9. That's right...

This is not the TV show 24. This is the real world, real lives, mulitple hostages being brought in to make matters worse.

[bluestateguy]

12. Oh for God's sake

Unless you think you know more about this matter than the President of the United States and his team then you would be well-advised to button it, and refrain from instructing him and his subordinates as to how to do their jobs.

I'm done with this thread.

[Truthiness Inspector]

14. I'm glad you are done with this thread. n/t

[Joe the Revelator]

32. Do you get this bent out of shape over every bank robbery that takes place in the country?

Every home invasion? Every murder? Should the President comment on these as well?

[RoyGBiv]

8. Hammers of Hell?

Really now ...

[Truthiness Inspector]

11. What would you prefer? The doilies from heaven?

For God's sake, what will deter them from continuing to ask for more, and get it.

[RoyGBiv]

39. Okay then ...

So, if we follow your suggestion, we waltz in there like Dirty Harry after he hasn't gotten laid in awhile, unleash a few hundred thousand pounds of fuck-up on them, blow the bastards out of the water ... and then what?

The hostages are all dead. The problems that incite these bastards to take hostages and rob people remain. We've blown (literally) a few hundred million more dollars, at least. And, we've proved yet again that we as a nation have no capacity for rational thought.

Nice plan.

We use force as it becomes necessary, measured for a reasonable response to what are basically a bunch of street thugs in little boats.

Hammers of hell ... the mind reels.

[MrSlayer]

10. He should show the world how crazy he is by sacrificing the captain.

He should fly over to the USS Halyburton in person and pull the trigger himself. Afterward he could make a statement along the lines of his "being glad to sacrifice one of his own to kill 100 of them." Then he should sink all the other pirates in the region.

[Truthiness Inspector]

13. You're right

Much better that he says NOTHING and gets...NOTHING.

His silence has brought what exactly, except more pirates and hostages to the situaton?

[MrSlayer]

19. I don't think he should publicly say anything.

You know he's tuned right into the situation. What he should do is agree to the ransom, get the captain and then turn around and kill all the pirates in the area. It seems to be the simplest solution and sends a serious message. Give the ransom in gold or something else easily recoverable.

[NYC Liberal]

30. Obama (in big prime time speech): Enough, we're gonna blow you out of the fucking water!

Pirates: Ok fine, say goodbye to your captain.

[Drunken Irishman]

35. AMERICA! FUCK YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

[Hippo_Tron]

82. Freedom isn't free...

It costs $1.05

[Tarheel_Dem]

89. You talk as if the President is some kind of trained seal, who performs on command...

Do you actually think the POTUS isn't tuned into every detail of what's happening in Somalia? Why does he have to go on national teevee to talk to the pirates? Because you say so?

:edited for grammar

[HughMoran]

16. Wow, you're not kidding are you?

I was waiting for the punch line - why is this so important to you?

[Truthiness Inspector]

18. Why ISN'T it important to YOU?

That's what stood out from your response. Yes, I am serious, and I think I laid out why.

[HughMoran]

24. I think the pirates will regret the day they attacked US citizens

OTOH, I'm not sure why this is such a critical issue at this time - unless you're watching cable news, 'cause from where I sit, there is no reason to go nuts - this has been happening there for years.

[NYC_SKP]

17. Obama should teabag 'em.... Right Fucking NOW!!!

eom.

[Truthiness Inspector]

20. So this is a joke to you?

An American citizen (like yourself presumably) is caputured and held hostage, and you would like for Internet users to have a good laugh about it...right?

A MAN, a real person, is fighting for his life right now, one who tried to escape his captors and gave his safety for the safety of his crew, and all you can think about is making an entirely unfunny joke. Are you laughing about the non-American hostages who have been literally shipped in to this unfolding disaster? Do you think their families and friends are laughing?

[jefferson_dem]

21. Ok. Let's suppose your post is not tongue-in-cheek.

What exactly do you propose be done to resolve this "crisis"? How exactly do we "crush them"?

[Truthiness Inspector]

26. Make it clear that piracy will never be rewarded

Make it clear to the international community that it's over, that no pirates will reach land with their liberty intact. There will be no ransoms. The reason the pirates are doing this is for money, and if rewarded it will only continue and escalate.

[jefferson_dem]

28. I totally agree with you in principle.

Hopefully, things won't get too messy along the way.

[laugle]

38. You are absolutely correct!

The United States of America should have a ZERO TOLERANCE for this kind of behavior.

If Obama hasn't made a statement yet, I expect he will do so, soon.

We do not pay ransom, and I just hope the Captain is rescued and comes home to his family.......

[Hippo_Tron]

57. If I were that man I would want somebody to pay the fucking ransom

Rather than attempt thrilling heroics which would likely get me killed.

[Zodiak]

64. I think your response it too emotional

These situations need a rational approach, not an emotional entreaty to this captains's seemingly oxymoronic heroism and victimhood. Pleading about the victim's families does no good, either...we know they are worried, but their worry should not justify an irrational, violent approach. Emotional entreaties do not speak to long-term consequences, and it is a long-term solution that is sought (yiou know, all innocents involved betting out alive vs. the instant emotional satisfaction of blowing people up to teach them a lesson).

We know this sucks from the perspective of the hostages; I'm sure that this point does not need to be made here.

[tinrobot]

22. Exactly how would he "crush" them?

Blow up the lifeboat, including the captain? Bomb Somalia?

There is no reason to use force at this point. They're the ones running out of fuel and food. We have plenty of time, so it's in our best interests to negotiate and wait until they make a mistake.

The time to "crush" them is after the hostage is returned safely.

[quakerboy]

23. So, the next time someone holds someone hostage in hometown, USA

The president should get involved? Or should he, ya know, let SWAT deal with it?

[wisteria]

25. This is an international issue. It is not a small town crime. n/t

[quakerboy]

42. No, its a large sea crime

And it should still be left to those who are tasked with and have experience dealing with such things. When Somalia itself attacks us, then we might conceivably have a need to drop "the hammers of hell" on someone. Until then it is a law enforcement issue.

[NYC Liberal]

29. Because you know better than Obama and the experts around him, right?

Was this post a joke post?

[FrenchieCat]

31. Is there some rush here?

A hostage situation is a law-enforcement worst-case scenario, because it places innocent civilians directly in harm's way. Armed intervention becomes very risky, since the hostages themselves can be harmed either by stray bullets or by the hostage-takers. That makes the negotiation the most important aspect of any hostage crisis. A skilled negotiator must find out what the hostage-taker wants, who he or she is and what it will take to achieve a peaceful outcome, all while ensuring the safety of the hostages and other bystanders.

Ideally, a hostage situation ends with everyone walking away (albeit with some of them in handcuffs).

Negotiator Objectives and Tactics


primary objectives of a negotiator are:
prolong the situation.
The longer a hostage situation lasts, the more likely that it will end peacefully.
Tactics include stalling while an official with more authority is consulted, getting deadlines pushed back, focusing the hostage-takers' attention on details such as what type of airplane they want and asking them open-ended questions rather than yes/no questions.

Keep things calm.
From the initial assault through the first hours of negotiations, hostage-takers can be extremely volatile. They're usually angry about whatever perceived injustice has led them to take hostages, and they are filled with adrenaline following the excitement of their attack. Angry, excited people with machine guns are not good for hostages. The negotiator should never argue with a hostage-taker and never say no to a demand. Instead, the negotiator should use delaying tactics or make a counter-offer. Above all, the negotiator should keep a positive, upbeat attitude, reassuring the hostage-taker that everything will eventually work out peacefully.

Foster the growth of relationships between negotiator and hostage-taker and between hostage-taker and hostages.
The negotiator must seem credible to the captor.
That is, the negotiator must act like he or she understands the reasons for the hostage-taker's actions but still come across as strong -- not just eager to please. The negotiator can also encourage activities that require cooperation and interaction between the captors and the hostages, such as sending food and medical supplies in bulk packages that have to be prepared. When the hostage-taker gets to know the hostages and sees them as human beings, it becomes more difficult to execute them.

Making a Deal
At the beginning of a hostage crisis, the hostage-takers' demands are often unreasonable. They might ask for huge sums of money or for the release of thousands of fellow terrorists from jails. Of course, the negotiator can't just give them anything they ask for, even if it would mean safety for the hostages. The policies of any nations involved, the ability to actually acquire the items being demanded and the need to consult with the situation commander and high-ranking political officials all limit what a negotiator can offer to the hostage-takers. Plus, if anyone who took hostages immediately had all of his or her demands granted, the world would face one hostage crisis after another.

However, the negotiator can "chip away" at the situation by offering minor concessions, such as food and water, promises of transportation and media coverage. In return, the hostage-takers can trade some of the hostages or some of their weapons or agree to downgrade some of their demands. By continuing this process, the negotiator can gradually weaken the hostage-takers' position.

Most countries have official policies regarding negotiating with terrorists. However, these policies shift with time, and they tend to be flexible depending on the situation. If the hostages are children or important political officials, even the most hard-line non-negotiating government might make an exception. In many cases, secret deals are made that allow the government to accept demands and save the hostages but maintain their public hard-line stance against giving in to terrorists' demands.

Israel, the United States and Russia are all nations that have a reputation for strict non-negotiation policies. However, every policy is open to exceptions. One example is the 1985 hijacking of TWA Flight 847. The Hezbollah hijackers demanded the release of more than 700 Shiites who were in Israeli prisons. After a long ordeal, all the hostages were released (except one American, who was murdered by the hijackers), and Israel released all 766 prisoners.
http://people.howstuffworks.com/hostage-negotiation5.htm

[CTyankee]

72. Excellent post, FrenchieCat! We need to wait this thing out, doing exactly

what you have posted here. Every day the pirates are made to wait is another day they are paralyzed and can't be out seizing vessels. They will be worn down bit by bit. Having a large destroyer in your midst plus all the air activity that must be happening there, has got to be a huge factor in getting some agreements out of them.

Obama is doing the exactly right thing.

[Truth2Tell]

33. The pirate story is dramatic

and sells well on American TeeeVeeee. But in the big picture of important world events affecting the lives of people, it ranks about number 6,728.

[Truthiness Inspector]

34. "it ranks about number 6,728. "

----Robert Gibbs speaking on the hostage crisis off the coast of Somalia

(In reality, a quote by someone just as soulless as Robert Gibbs)

[Drunken Irishman]

36. SHUT THE FUCKING COUNTRY DOWN RIGHT NOW!

[Truthiness Inspector]

37. I'm sure you know your answer was weak.

And unfunny. Anything to not really look at a bad situation.

[FrenchieCat]

40. No, your OP was weak.

That's why you didn't respond to my post.

[Truthiness Inspector]

43. I appreciate your post

but as a police officer, copied and pasted sources regarding law enforcement don't really do a lot for me in terms of making a point. I understand you took the time to post it, and I thank you for that.

I am not satisfied with Obama's handling of this situation, and I'm saddened that you are.

[FrenchieCat]

49. You don't know how Obama is handling the situation,

and grabbing the nearest microphone to grandstand,
may not be how these types of matter are best resolved...
just because you seem to think so.

There's a reason they call him calm and cool,
and not about drama.
It's the difference between lurching from crisis to crisis,
and doing some actual problem solving.
It's not about how fast you go, or how red in the face one gets,
it's how the situation is resolved.
Haste makes waste.

Count me as one who thinks you are a fool,
and I'm saddened that you don't realize that about yourself.

[Tarheel_Dem]

91. OMG. You're a police officer? I don't know about anyone else, but...

that scares the living shit out of me.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

120. It scares me too

I hope he isn't bring down the "hammers of hell" on speeders.

[Truth2Tell]

41. Soulless? Really?

I didn't say I don't care about the victims of the pirates or their family and friends. I do. I also care about the teenager killed in the car accident in my home town last night. And the kids starving 300 miles away from the pirate drama on the Somali coast. And the man dying of AIDS next to them. And on and on. It's about placing the situation in a larger context, not about lack of compassion. There may be a few ways one could try and spin this story into something of grand geo-political significance, testing Obama, etc, but really it's a standard crime/victim play of the kind that takes places thousands of times each day the world over, not an earth shattering event.

We Americans have a tendency to latch on emotionally to whatever drama our TV puts in front of us from minute to minute, yet typically we lack a broader perspective of the ongoing ills of the world. How else could so many of us come to believe that 9-11 was the greatest American tragedy of the last decade when in terms of human suffering it doesn't even really make the top 20? TeeeVee drama, that's how.

[Truthiness Inspector]

44. Then worry about what you want to

No one is compelling you to be concerned about the hostage situation. You are focused on YOU, and that is your right. Just make sure YOU are ok.

[Truth2Tell]

46. You are focused on YOU

That's really what you got from my post?

[RoyGBiv]

45. Well said ...

If nothing else came out of this thread, at least that did.

[FrenchieCat]

51. Thank you.

[Tarheel_Dem]

93. I wish I could recommend your post.

:thumbsup:

[tkmorris]

47. You aren't even subtle

You never have been. How you continue to get away with your comedy routine frankly befuddles me.

You want Obama to take a political hit over this. You yearn for it. It isn't going to happen, but you sure are trying to make it more important than it is and all about Obama. Nice try, but no dice.

[Jennicut]

67. Doesn't this poster detest Obama if I remember correctly? Hidden motives.

[Name removed]

94. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MiniMe]

48. And what should he do that would not endanger the life of the captain?

And what do you propose that he personally does?

[RandomThoughts]

50. For perspective, I think of this stuff on the topic.

Hard to say, because it is not easily thought of. First I really hope for the safety of the Captain that is a hostage. And also hope his family has comfort in what must be a difficult time.

But to those that believe its a math problem. That believe it should be dealt with without compassion.

Then improve car safety on highways, you will save more lives.

It is not a math problem, it is a life of a man at sea that was doing his job as captain, and the lives and well being of the people of a country suffering from abject poverty.

Many people are looking at this in the short term, only seeing how do we save that one Captain. This is the Cheney method. Go in abduct a bunch of people, put them in prisons, or just kill a bunch of people.

Do we considered this problem has long range ramifications. How we treat the Somalia people, even the pirates, has an effect on how many pirates there will be tomorrow. Do we considered working on the plight of the Somali people, not just to stop them from resorting to violence, something every group of people seem to do if they have no way to care for there families, but also for compassion.

This is not to reward piracy, it is to try and not just think with tough guy ego, and solve real problems, both for morale and security reasons.

for more perspective read this article
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/johann-hari/you-are-being-lied-to-abo_b_155147.html

This in no way is advocating the piracy, but it is to try and expand thought on how we choose to deal with people in circumstances. The first thought is to just kick butt, that is what Bush and Cheney did. Its an easy way to think, but I think there is more to it then that.

[FrenchieCat]

52. That's how we separate the Freepers from the rest of us.

Just as you now did.

It is the difference between crisis management and problem solving.

[Hippo_Tron]

56. Even if you view it as a math problem, people suggesting the rambo method are doing faulty math

The pirates are asking for $2 million. The pirates are in this for the money and all indicators point to the fact that the pirates will indeed return the hostage if the ransom is paid. A human life is worth more than $2 million and even for the cynical un-compassionate types who say otherwise, the PR problems associated with a dead hostage make his life worth more than $2 million.

Yes, playing rambo and having it succeed would be the best outcome for Obama. But it's too much risk for too little of a reward. Failure could not only result in the captain's death, it could also result in the death of some of the people trying to rescue him. Success gets him some good PR for a few days but honestly nothing substantial. This isn't a crisis with serious national security ramifications. President Obama sending in the Navy to rescue a guy from pirates will not be written in the history books. This has like a fraction of the significance of Waco and Waco is way way down on the list of things that people remember about the Clinton Presidency.

Playing rambo also isn't going to be a huge deterrent. It may deter some people from engaging in piracy because it's more dangerous but if they know there is money to be made then people will still assume the risk. And in order for it to be an effective deterrent, we have to play rambo more than once. Each time we play rambo, we run the high risk of somebody getting killed. And as soon as somebody gets killed I have a feel like our will to play rambo will be much weaker.

[RandomThoughts]

59. And in an odd pattern matching, Rambo fits the comments.

Rambo was the story of how a hopeless person could be turned to be violent to people. In an odd way, a correlation to how when violence is added to a person looking for a meal and in pain, sometimes he can become a problem.

Odd how that is, Rambo is a story showing how lack of empathy and justice not used, created a problem.

Again, not advocating for piracy, just expanding on the Rambo metaphor.

[Hippo_Tron]

60. I didn't think of that, but it's a very good point

IMO this is akin to our "We don't negotiate with terrorists" policy, only on a much smaller scale. The policy really hasn't worked like we hoped. You could argue that it is better than the alternative because of the national security consequences.

In this case there are no national security consequences. The pirates are doing this out of desperation, not because of a political agenda. Pay them and nobody dies. It's really that simple.

[Hippo_Tron]

54. Doing as you suggest is a great way to get the hostages killed

Obama taking your advice would be akin to JFK taking Curtis LeMay's advice during the Cuban Missile Crisis, only on a much smaller scale.

The solution here is to pay the ransom. Playing rambo one time is not going to deter pirates. And if we keep playing rambo enough times, eventually a hostage will die and all of a sudden playing rambo won't seem like such a good idea. Yes paying the ransom is not a great option, but it's the best of a bad option. These pirates are in it for the money and they will take the money and run and everybody will be alive, which is the most important thing.

[Political Heretic]

55. Yes! KILL! IRRATIATE THEM ALL MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAA

[dcindian]

61. war war war war war war war

kill kill kill kill dead smiles dead dead drones woman dead kill children

[Life Long Dem]

62. Why is this news?

:puffpiece:

[apr09]

63. Someone has to go to jail

I suspect that no one was sent to jail for the crime of kidnapping in 2008, when the problem escalated. It's time to send the pirates a message that hijacking ships is a serious crime.

[Jennicut]

65. The French attacked the pirates and one of the hostages end up dead

I pray that this captain does not meet the same fate and we proceed delicately. The navy does not want the Somali pirates to meet up with another pirated boat and take this man back to Somalia. They will use force if that happens. But right now they need to get this man out safely. They are planning on using more hostages they already have to use as a sort of human shield. The pirates are sending boats to the lifeboat with these people who have been kidnapped on the boats. Please don't be naive, the pirates will kill these people at the first sign of force. Force for force's sake means nothing. Get the people out of there then talk about force.

[jeanpalmer]

68. Well if Obama stayed true to the principles

he follows in Afghanistan, he would send a drone overhead and wipe them all out, including the hostage. In Afghanistan, the likely slaughter of innocent people in the pursuit of the terrorist is not a moral or tactical hindrance. It's just the cost of doing business. So apply the same standard to this situtation, and the drones would have done their work already. It would be sad if an innocent person had to die, but Obama can send the relatives a flag and our condolences. And in this case, we're only talking about one Captain. http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20090410/wl_sthasia_afp/afghanistanunrestcivilianlead

[cali]

69. wow. thanks for the sterling illustration of impressive stupidity.

not much of a fan of critical thinking, eh?

Not all comparisons are odious, but yours certainly is. This situation is simply not analogous on any level to the war in Afghanistan. And I do not support that war.

[Truth2Tell]

80. Miss sarcasm much? nt

[jeanpalmer]

83. got to make it more obvious

from now on, for some, I guess.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

121. I guess you are one of the ones that needs the :sarcam: emote

to know when something is sarcastic.

[stillcool]

73. Not to worry...false flag?

Somalia: Another CIA-Backed Coup Blows Up
by Mike Whitney
http://aljazeera.com/news/articles/42/Somalia_Another_CIAbacked_coup_blows_up.html

Up until a month ago, no one in the Bush administration showed the least bit of interest in the incidents of piracy off the coast of Somalia. Now that's all changed and there's talk of sending in the Navy to patrol the waters off the Horn of Africa and clean up the pirates hideouts. Why the sudden about-face? Could it have something to do with the fact that the Ethiopian army is planning to withdrawal all of its troops from Mogadishu by the end of the year, thus, ending the failed two year US-backed occupation of Somalia?
The United States has lost the ground war in Somalia, but that doesn't mean its geopolitical objectives have changed one iota. The US intends to stay in the region for years to come and use its naval power to control the critical shipping lanes from the Gulf of Aden. The growing strength of the Somali national resistance is a set-back, but it doesn't change the basic game-plan. The pirates are actually a blessing in disguise. They provide an excuse for the administration to beef up it's military presence and put down roots. Every crisis is an opportunity.



America's interests in Somalia:
Four major U.S. oil companies are sitting on a prospective fortune in exclusive concessions


http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/North_Africa/Somalia_US_OilCorp_Fortune.html

The Long and Hidden History of the U.S in Somalia
by Stephen Zunes
AlterNet, January 21, 2002
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/North_Africa/Hx_US_Somalia.html


Somalia: Hidden Catastrophe, Hidden Agenda
by Media Lens
www.dissidentvoice.org/, May 14th, 2008
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/North_Africa/Somalia_Hidden_Agenda.html


More Blood For Oil

by Carl Bloise
www.zmag.org, January 16, 2007
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Africa/MoreBloodOil_Somalia.html

[Are_grits_groceries]

74. If Obama does become overtly involved,

he gives the pirates much more exposure and elevates them in their own minds and others.

In addition, there are many more vessels with hostages that the Somalis have captured. I believe what needs to happen is for all the countries with ships in the area to try to come up with some comprehensive strategy to thwart the pirates. As it is, there are vessels from different countries sailing willy nilly all over the place. Each country and company has a different idea about what to do.

We won't stop boo with one action.

[Phx_Dem]

75. Yeah they should just blow them up. Who gives a shit about the Captain.

That's his problem. He's not my relative, so you know. . .who cares.

:sarcasm:

As surprising as it may seem, I think the U.S. Navy has a better handle on this situation and how to deal with it than you or I. But the company (Maersk?) had better not pay a fucking ransom. That would be a huge mistake and only fuel pirate attacks on other vessels.

[saltpoint]

76. It's hard to know how to respond to your post. If you are literally

urging the President of the United States to lower the boom on these "pirates," and in a big way, it does seem that you are lighting cigars at the gas pump.

In the government model, there are any number of folks who weigh in on these hostage situations and by and large they do not recommend to the president that we bomb the piss out of a few renegades.

[onetwo]

77. If it was your dad held hostage, you'd be singing a different tune.

Unless, of course, you hate your dad.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

78. Oh for god's sake.

[Sheepshank]

79. Some of you are yabbering on....

...explaining how the world of international engagement with terrorists should work, and you don't even realize the rules of engagement. Idiots!

There is a huge balancing act of what may put the other 200 or so hostages in jeopardy, and well as us rules that clearly state if a civilian would be harmed, combat cannot occur.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30162572/page/2/
"The vice president of the Philippines, the nation with the largest number of sailors held captive by Somali pirates, appealed Saturday for the safety of hostages to be ensured in the standoff.

"We hope that before launching any tactical action against the pirates, the welfare of every hostage is guaranteed and ensured," said Vice President Noli de Castro. "Moreover, any military action is best done in consultation with the United Nations to gain the support and cooperation of other countries."

U.S. rules of engagement prevent the Americans using their vastly superior fighting power to engage the pirates if there is any danger to civilians."

Yeah...sacrifice the captain to prove a point...nice.

[creeksneakers2]

81. Plenty of time left to negotiate

The other pirates on the way to rescue the pirates with the captain ought to be corralled too. An assault would be a final option if nothing else works. The pirates have to be held to two possible outcomes - prison or death.

[Number23]

85. Sounds like somebody needs some cod liver oil and a good nap.

So when the Somalis were kidnapping and ransoming other Africans, Arabs, Asians and Europeans nobody made a noise. Now that they've gone after American boats they deserve to be nuked, huh?? The only time that any navy that I'm aware of attacked and destroyed a pirate ship was when they came under attack, which I think most people would agree is the appropriate response.

This is an international problem that requires an international solution. You sound crazy.

[Thothmes]

87. Glad saner people are in charge of this problem

than the author of this post.

[Raineyb]

88. More bloodthirsty idiocy.

You didn't give a fuck about piracy when it was affecting the ships of other countries. Your concern now seems more than a bit disingenuous.

[sampsonblk]

90. He's doing the right things so far

But at some point, we ought to show some more strength. And after these current difficulties end, this piracy stuff needs to be eradicated for good.

[Duer 157099]

92. I'll BET that thousands more die each year from lack of healthcare

than from pirates. And he's not doing anything about that either.

Perspective people!

[Tarheel_Dem]

96. DUMBEST. POST. EVER. S-CHIP SOUND FAMILIAR?

:eyes:

[Duer 157099]

97. OBVIOUSLY you haven't read any of my other posts

or you'd KNOW there are dumber ones!

[Tarheel_Dem]

98. Of that, I'm quite sure. If this is any indication of your repoirte, I'll pass. (nt)

[ASUliberal]

95. Your complete lack of perspective

comes out pretty obviously in your expectations and portrayals of the pirates.

I'm not justifying what they are doing, but their country is in shambles. I mean for christs sake they haven't even had a proper government for 20 years. These people have no direction and no real way to live stable lives. It's no wonder they turn to fringe lifestyles. Everyone else in their country is doing it, and the rest of the world has abandoned them.

[Danger Mouse]

99. Kill em all and let god sort em out.

[LittleBlue]

100. That's fucking stupid. They have hostages, genius. You want to "throw the hammer down" on hostages?

What about the next group hijacked? You want to send the message: kill the hostages so we don't have to deal with the Americans.

That's stupid.

[ASUliberal]

101. Yeah lets not blow up the hostages...

"You want to "throw the hammer down" on hostages?"


hahaha well put.

[me b zola]

102. OFFS

Yeah, why the hell hasn't Obama personally gone over there and kicked their asses himself? As far as that goes, why hasn't he completely stamped out all crime altogether? WTF is wrong with him? If he were any kind of leader we would be living in freaking utopia because all criminals would be too freaking scared of his awesomeness to ever commit wretched acts of violence or lawlessness.


:argh: :nuke: :argh: :nuke:

[bluestateguy]

104. Now will you shut your mouth?

nt

[FrenchieCat]

105. I was Right and you were Wrong!

Take that!

[azmouse]

106. wow....

don't you look stupid now?

[FrenchieCat]

108. He looked stupid then!

His avatar suits him perfectly....as long as he is looking in the mirror!

[HughMoran]

112. This won't be the first time

Lots of egg to go around in the upcoming years...

[Peacetrain]

107. Thank goodness it was Obama the helm... AHEM

[HughMoran]

110. It's over

I bet $1,000,000 that you're not pleased about this.

[BlooInBloo]

111. Yup - not enough carnage.

[joshcryer]

113. 3 out of 4 of the pirates were killed, the OP should be pleased.

[PopSixSquish]

114. Thank God or Whomever You Hold That to Be That Obama is President

and not some of the people on DU. Textbook 101 on how to handle a hostage crises. Observe, report, negotiate. Use of force only authorized when all other options have been exhausted or there is a clear and direct threat to a hostage.

Every SWAT team in the country is trained this way and if you were really a cop, you would know this.

And President Obama let the US Navy do its job. He let the Navy Seals do their job. He let professional people handle the situation and didn't go on TV and jabber about "getting them dead or alive".

[IndianaGreen]

115. K&R to your most excellent post!

And President Obama let the US Navy do its job. He let the Navy Seals do their job. He let professional people handle the situation and didn't go on TV and jabber about "getting them dead or alive".

Right on target, PopSixSquish!

:kick:

[FrenchieCat]

116. My post on this thread back on Friday.....responding to the OP!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8334678&mesg_id=8334739

[PopSixSquish]

117. Yuppers - I Read That - But I Also Know a Few Cops/HRT Folks

and to a person, they would all prefer for situations to be resolved without a single shot being fired. But if called upon, they will do their jobs.

[RoyGBiv]

118. Bingo ...

Was looking for this thread to comment myself. Beat me to it. :)

Hammers of Hell indeed ...

[ClassWarrior]

119. How ironic that your posts feature a photo of GWB** giving DUers the finger.

NGU.

[ecstatic]

122. Looks like the "hammers of hell" have been dropped...

Happy now? :D

[Flying Dream Blues]

123. Gee, I was kind of hoping the 'hammers of hell' would fall somewhere else.

To each his own, I suppose. Enjoy your truthiness inspection.