Howard Dean on Maddow: "I revere Krugman... I agree with Obama on this one"...

[BlooInBloo]

Just now.

Quote is approximate, but very close. Will correct when I hear it again, see a transcript, or something like that.

Moral: It is possible to disagree with Krugman, and still be a progressive. Kapish?


Full disclosure: I actually mostly agree with Krugman, for all that. The point is that I have no trouble imagining good and smart people disagreeing with him.



EDIT: I eagerly await hearing the ihateobama people call Dean an Obama-worshipping robot.

[Hissyspit]

1. And the moral also is it is possible to disagree with Obama and still be a progressive.

Dean said we need to spend money. Krugman said we need to spend money. Obama said we need to spend money. The devil is in the details.

[berni_mccoy]

2. OMG! People who are both Krugman Fans and Dean Fans are going to TEAR A HOLE IN THE UNIVERSE

Trying to figure this one out.

[BlooInBloo]

3. Right?

[mzmolly]

26. I'm a fan of Krugman, Dean and Obama.

I am not conflicted. ;) I understand that good people can disagree.

[Political Heretic]

29. GET. OUT! That's not possible!!!

:wow:

:P

[mzmolly]

34. .

;) :hi:

[tbyg52]

37. There's a pair of us! (Don't tell - they'd banish us, you know!) ;->

http://www.stumbleupon.com/url/www.davidpbrown.co.uk/poetry/emily-dickinson.html

Edited to fix link and add a wink.

[Forkboy]

39. This coming from one of the Grand Masters of binary thinking on DU

[fishwax]

4. and it's possible to like Krugman and not hate Obama

Both statements, of course, ought to be obvious (ah, DU :rofl:) ...

[Cha]

5. Oh Really..well, I revere

Dean:patriot:

[Thrill]

6. I think Obama is a very smart man. Who has studied both sides of the argument

and went with the approach he thinks is best. This isn't George Bush we have here

[Gregorian]

7. This is such a great interview! The Republicans are almost a regional party.

He laid it all out. We're not competitive with even Canadian workforces due to the cost of health care. And education is also a fix for the economy, but one that is further off into the future. Obama is fixing, not masking.

And one thing that really struck me about how the republicans are so out in the wilderness is this: When you steal elections; when you cheat to win, you are no longer working within reality. No wonder they're so messed up.

The Republicans are not working within reality.


America was sick before the economy even nosedived. I strongly believe we're in good hands, and on our way to healing.

[liberalmuse]

8. I like Obama, Dean and Krugman.

Am I going to hell? :scared:

[BlooInBloo]

9. I've already chosen my plot!

[Captain Hilts]

14. I'm holding a seat for you! See you there!

It's amazing how few folks here don't do 'nuance'.

[stillcool]

10. Why do I have to be

'all in' on a subject, especially one as complex as this, that is so fluid, and has no certain perfect solution, and one where any of the various attempts at fixing it could have unforeseen disastrous consequences? Why can't I respect all opinions, instead of using one opinion (not mine) to beat the shit out of the guy I don't like?

[BlooInBloo]

11. And also, that there can be more than one way to skin a cat.

[Captain Hilts]

13. Same here. I don't have a side in this one. nt

[Captain Hilts]

12. Krugman is an economist. Dean and Obama are politicians. Different priorities. nt

[pnwmom]

15. I don't know when I've seen so many smart people in one short thread.

People actually able to hold two competing ideas in their heads.

Congratulations to you all!

[BlooInBloo]

16. And then there's me, bringing down the average.

:P

[elleng]

17. and don't 'HATE'!

bravo!

[Reterr]

18. "Moral: It is possible to disagree with Krugman, and still be a progressive."

You don't say!!!! OMG it is so incredibly cool that we have blooinbloo here to explain these astronomically complex ideas to all the plebes posting here. And with video evidence to prove it no less!

This is so complex and hard to comprehend. I am so glad you were here to decode it for us! Sheer genius!

But then I have always had a very, very high opinion of your intelligence and wit.

[BlooInBloo]

19. Awwww. (blush)

[jojoloco]

20. What specific Krugman ideas did Dean claim to disagree with?

I think transcripts are available the day after, so we'll be looking forward to read it tomorrow.
Do you remember what specific idea by Krugman Dean said he disagreed with and why?

[BlooInBloo]

21. The bailout - and for the reasons Obama gave. But the video/transcript would be better...

No doubt about it.

EDIT: Video is up on the Maddow site: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/#30217968 (the circled one below)


Dean starts at 5:45, responding to Obama's explanations for the previous couple of minutes.

[BlooInBloo]

22. Video is up - here's Dean's complete quote...

Link to video is in my previous response (post #21).

Full Dean quote: "You know actually I have to say - I was just listening to the speech - I'm a little surpsied at how much I agree with him . I revere Paul Krugman - I think he's one of the smartest people in America. On this one I actually agree with president Obama. We really do have to spend some money. That the eyes of fiscal conservatives don't like spending . But we've got to get the economy going again. Primarily so small businesses that are in good shape don't collapse. And that's what happens in bad recessions - that people with good balance sheets collapse as well as people with bad balance sheets."

[LooseWilly]

32. I can't help but notice that Obama said his reluctance to go with Krugman's plan

wasn't that because it was somehow wrong, or even that Geithner's & Summers' plan was better, but rather that it was liable to precipitate an undermining of confidence.

A quick examination of this line of reasoning suggests that it is actually the bankers on Wall Street, and assorted investment types, whose confidence Obama is worried about shaking, rather than the confidence of the public, or "Main Street". I draw this conclusion based on the public poll numbers from Chris Matthews' show, which indicate that government is trusted at something like 67% vs. a 33% trust rating for corporations... and it follows that public opinion would likely not have any confidence problems with the government "nationalizing" the banks, as Krugman has suggested. Rather, it seems that the Obama economic team has decided that the "confidence" of bankers and investors is a more important consideration.

Just saying.

On the other hand, I'm not saying that Obama's team is wrong, I'm just saying that Obama's rebuttal to the arguments for nationalization seemed to amount to concern about the effects of spooking Wall Street. On the whole, taking political considerations into account, they may well be correct. Firstly, taking on the inevitable fight that would be required to "nationalize" a large sector of the banking industry would be politically costly. Secondly, it would almost certainly spook large swaths of Wall Street, and I suspect that Obama is hoping to wrangle some of those rich fucks, like so many rich feral cats, into using their money to help prop up the banks so that the tax payer doesn't have to foot the whole of the bill.

All viable considerations.

As far as the plain economics of the situation go, though, I've still seen no rebuttal, if the Feds/taxpayer does find itself having to foot the whole bill, that would suggest that Krugman is wrong in his analysis.

So now we're left in the position of crossing our fingers and hoping that Obama and his team can entice the capitalists to the table to foot a chunk of the bill, and that he can at the same time manage to make some regulations stick.

Here's to agile finger and toe crossing exercises... may they do the trick.

[Undercurrent]

23. Well howdy!

A Dean/Krugman/Obama thread with thoughtful, considered words, but without counterproductive attacks or insults!








So far so good...

[BlooInBloo]

24. :) You missed #18.

[Undercurrent]

25. Dang!

Eyes flew right over it, and it didn't register.

Oh well, have a nice evening anyhow.

[Political Heretic]

27. It's possible to disagree with Obama and still be a Democrat, Kapish?

Full disclosure: I actually often agree with Obama, for all that. The point is that I have no trouble imagining good and smart people disagreeing with him.

EDIT: I eagerly await hearing the iloveobama people call me a Krugman-worshipping robot.

[BlooInBloo]

28. Congratulations on your ablility to state the opposite. Possibly your parents will hang it on the...

fridge.

[Political Heretic]

30. It's interesting that you find it to be an "opposite."

[dionysus]

33. okay. you krugman worshipping robot.

:evilgrin:

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

35. I've yet to see this "often agreement" with Obama on your part.

It could be that you just don't post it very often, but I typically see you lurking in threads to bash him or his administration.

[BlooInBloo]

36. Don't worry about it. It's just shit that they say.

[PBS Poll-435]

31. Krugman is my favorite Bill Maher guest

Since then he has been a bit of an egocentric.

We might just not be that into you.

[Telly Savalas]

38. I'm a pretty big fan of all three of those guys.