I'm not sure I'm a fit here anymore.

[mmonk]

That being said, I'd miss the news stories in in LBN I might miss in the MSM.

[Adelante]

1. Just use Ignore and Hide Thread

And you will find your fit. There's no reason to drive yourself nuts reading every damned thing that's posted here. I thought about leaving, too, but I gave it a last try using hide and ignore and here I am.

[mmonk]

5. You may be right but it can be difficult.

I understand though the feelings of my whistleblower friends who have finally given up in their quest for justice. I understand it because I feel it. It's like why participate in futility anymore.

[Solomon]

15. You're probably right. If you are experiencing futility in just

three months, then perhaps you're right.

[mmonk]

22. Much longer than that.

That's why I'm not totally surprised, just tired and angry.

[stray cat]

2. I'm not sure many of us are good fits for any website but its easy to check in from time to time

and look at posts and occasionally post something.

[Skink]

3. Free beer sure would go a long way.

:beer:

[mmonk]

10. Thanks.

Can't turn a good offer down.

[Raster]

17. Woo-Hoo!!! Free Beer!

:toast:

[cali]

4. I think most of us have felt that way from time to time

[mmonk]

90. You're probably right. I'm not the type that picks up his ball and goes

home because they don't get their way either. I probably just need a break. On constitutional matters concerning the Republicans, the frustration level is just way high with me as it has been over the past few years with this country ignoring grave matters.

[JNelson6563]

6. Just visit LBN

While I still check out the other forums I rarely participate anymore. I always check LBN tho', especially the Stock Watch Thread.

Remember, many here have never worked in the trenches and it is very easy for them to declare everything sucks and protest often over ever little thing. I remember well working my ass off day and night for the cause (as a volunteer even) and daily I'd see stuff like "I'm not a Dem anymore!". Easy to walk away when little to nothing is invested.

If you aren't already involved go join up with your local party. Nevermind the tubes, get busy helping locally. It's rewarding to help raise funds, recruit new voters & volunteers and to helpout with getting Dems elected locally. While doin ghtat you can check in at DU, read the doom and gloom and simply smile because you know better.

Julie

[KoKo]

64. Depends on your local party, Julie.... just saying many have found

it lacking in the "Bottom Up" emphasis...it remains "Top Down" in many areas of the country for our Dem Party. I know...been there done that...still try but there's much need for "wings" of the Dem Party as it's now structured. Dean did a lot...but he's gone.

[JNelson6563]

91. Yes, I know this to be true.

There are ways around that though. One that I have personally witnesses/supported was the formation of a club. Pretty good sized county, the party was dominated by old school folks though who weren't interested in doing anything. They seemed to think the old days would return where labor would suddenly be flush again and show up to bankroll them. Some Dean supporter friends of mine got together, formed a club and immediately had a year 'round storefront office as well as a ready organization. The party now (begrudgingly) follows the club; latching onto their candidate efforts as in door to door, phone-banking etc.

Additonally I have seen many a "coup" whereas frustrated activists get organized and show up en masse to dominated local party elections.

There are also other levels of the organization (Dem PArty). I know it varies from state to state but I give MI as an example. We have county parties and the next step up is the Cong. Dist. When I chaired my Cong. Dist. I took steps to involve activists who were frustrated or shut out at the local level, including those who formed the aforementioned club. There's also state parties, if nothing else.

And organizations aside, there are elections every two years and no shortage of Dem candidates who need as much help as they can get.

When one really puts those efforts in according to their ability you won't see those folks flippantly saying "That's it, I'm not a Dem anymore" over every thing that happens that they disagree with. For one thing, in real world politics they will learn absolutists get nowhere.

Julie

[dancingme]

7. I feel the same way

[pecwae]

8. You aren't alone.

[salguine]

9. Would you care to elaborate on why? I mean, I suspect I know exactly

what you mean, but without some more background info on why you feel that way I'm not sure.

I realize you may not want to go into it in detail, and that's okay, but I can't help wondering "if you're thinking what I'm thinking".

[mmonk]

11. To me, defending the concept of doing nothing legally in the face

of Constitutional and statutory crimes by government officials is indefensible. I can't say any common ground exists between my feelings on this matter and those that defend not taking the legal actions required.

[QC]

12. But the puppy is just so darn cute!!!!

[CreekDog]

46. all us supporters only care about the puppy being cute

please tell me you feel misrepresented --i enjoy irony. :eyes:

[MadBadger]

58. How Condescending of you

[Danger Mouse]

66. Aren't you just a ray of sunshine?

[LibDemAlways]

13. In what began as a friendly e-mail exchange yesterday

between myself and a DLC-type friend, I joked that the new dog must have been the change Obama campaigned on because I haven't seen much else. I received a rather acerbic response pointing out that Obama is way better than McCain.

Seems to me that's beside the point.

The crimes of the Bush administration should be at the forefront. Ignoring them sets the precedent that an administration can do anything (torture, launch illegal wars, violate citizens' Constitutional rights, etc.) without consequence. Is that really the type of government we want? I don't.

The R's will do whatever it takes to thwart Obama's agenda no matter how the DOJ proceeds. Seems to me Holder and Co. have a duty to follow the law and go after these thugs. Otherwise they're no better than their predecessors.

[mmonk]

14. That's how I see it as well.

[Redbear]

43. If that's how you feel, please do not leave.

We need more people of principle, not fewer.

[kas125]

53. Me, too. And there are lots of others who agree.

[unapatriciated]

117. yes please stay...

there are many of us who are saddened and disappointed about not prosecuting these atrocious acts committed by our government. We need every voice so that they will finally hear us.

[mkultra]

55. its a priority difference that blinds you

In my opinion, getting the millions of out of home and out of work families back to a viable place again is the actual first priority. Human beings are whats important. The economy is job one. This may be why i like what hes doing and you don't.

[LibDemAlways]

85. I'm not blind to human misery. I'd love to see

millions of Americans back to work and a strong, healthy economy. Obama takes justifiable pride in being able to multi-task. He can certainly focus on solving the economic crisis while directing Holder to hold the criminals who previously occupied the White House accountable for their crimes. I don't see this as an either-or proposition. It comes down to upholding the Constitution and Rule of Law, which is what the oath he took is all about.

[mkultra]

104. and i think your naive

His political capital is tenuous and he is spending where it is most needed. Its not about time or staff.

[Raineyb]

122. Then when is the time?

Because if no one pays for these crimes it'll only be a matter of time until we get another President who doesn't give a damn about the constitution and will take it even further. It is of utmost importance that what happened during the Cheney/Bush presidency never ever happens again.

And just following orders is not an adequate excuse. It just isn't.

Regards

[mkultra]

125. well good luck in wonder land

because it will happen again and it cant be stopped for good. If you don't understand that then you don't understand our government. The only way to stop it is to never elect it.

[LibDemAlways]

124. If you are fine with living in a country in which a corrupt

criminal cabal can run the show for 8 years and walk away unscathed, that's your perogative. However, some of us would like to think that the Rule of Law means something and that the Bush crime family will pay a price.

Letting them off sets a terrible precedent. Who knows what some future Bush-like admin. will get away with just because they can.

[genna]

73. I am not at the point where I think Holder is going to give a finger to justice

I also don't believe anyone who stood against Iraq at first and have staunchly said we went to war for no reason will be SILENT now.


His initial document release does not block the possibility that there are more documents to come. The ACLUs FOIA request did not start yesterday, last year, or the year before.


The wheels of justice are slow, but in the fullness in time most information will be released. The way I look it is it took the nation its first 180 years to figure out that slavery might not be such a good idea. It took another 100 years to formally be included in equal treatment. 40 years after that for the first (prayerfully not the only) non White male to be elected.

Conservative rule has been in place since Nixon. Ford did not completely cure the executive of unlawful conduct. Now the judiciary and the legislative bodies have to balance out the imperial presidency.

Protesting does help.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

19. As I just said on another thread --

we are witnessing the "wingering" of DU -- a phenomenon where normally thoughtful people suddenly develop the inability to be objective when it comes to their own candidate/party.

It ain't pretty. And expect to see more of it here as the months go on.

Hang tough here with us -- Truth and Justice need all the voices it can get here. :hi:

[mmonk]

28. I'll do my best.

:hi:

[earth mom]

30. Hang tough is right. The faithful are working overtime to kick those of us who speak the truth

the hell out of here.

Look no further than the TS of Leftchick. :cry:

[conscious evolution]

35. Leftchick got TSed?

We are screwn.

[Danger Mouse]

69. Oh, right, because us 'O-bots' have the power to TS people.

Sheesh.

[Name removed]

96. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Lilith Velkor]

102. C'mon, DM, you know better than that.

I've seen you call it out.

[mkultra]

105. seems like people must be reminded

that the D stands for Democratic. This is not HardLeftUnderground.com you could of course check and see if that URL is available. I would, however, imagine that ObamaBash.com is probably taken.

[Lilith Velkor]

106. Please tell me exactly what it is you are implying.

You have impunity and you know it, so why not let 'er rip?

[mkultra]

108. lol, im not that stupid

if i was, i would be bashing obama

[Lilith Velkor]

112. That's nice.

Do you have a point in there somewhere?

C'mon. Say something thoughtful for once. I double dog dare ya.

[mkultra]

116. sure

Perhaps we should all consider the possibility that this board conflict revolves entirely around subjective vision instead of any sort of right to free speech. Essentially, a persons right to voice their opinion exists regardless of this boards facilitation. This board facilitates speech based entirely on a filter that limits based on the Admins subjective threshold.

we can demonize Freepers if we wish, but the fact remains that they are just people who's opinions differ so vastly from our own, that they fall clearly on the other side of this threshold. Many people see the line on which this threshold exists as the ideology line on which conservationism is on the right and progressive thought on the left. They picture the intent of this board as to exist on that continuum just left of some imagined center. But, in my opinion , they neglect the other threshold that exists on the left as well.

There are extreme lefties just like there are extreme righties. While i hold more sentiment for the extremes on the left, i still feel that they must remember this is a democracy and thus, majority of opinion will always trump their bulling and loud agitation.

If you blow shit up in the name of the people due to left hand ideology, you have still crossed the line in the same way that Timothy Mcviegh crossed on the right, perhaps not as seriously though. All of this bravado is simply to point out that the continuum in question has two thresholds, not just one.

This board exists for the sole pleasure of those who use it at the grace of its admins. This particular board is for the general support of democratic candidates and policies. If you fall outside that box in either direction, your expulsion is appropriate.

[Lilith Velkor]

130. There still doesn't seem to be a point in there.

Only a regurgitation of a common misinterpretation of the rules of this site, which you would probably do well to read more carefully.

If you really want to have your own little cybertreehouse with a "No commies allowed" sign upon it, you could always start your own. I haven't checked, but maybe "DemocraticOverground" is free.

[Raineyb]

123. Well supporting Democrats doesn't mean not calling them out when they're wrong

And pointing out that Obama may be going the wrong way on the economy is not bashing.

Your definitions need work.

Regards

[Danger Mouse]

128. Call what out?

Putting hits on people?
What am I, the Godfather?

[Lilith Velkor]

129. No, no.

Calling out the "WHY DO YOU HATE OBAMA?" nonsense. You seem to be a rational person, that's all I'm saying.

[Danger Mouse]

132. Yes, it is nonsense, but there are a few posters here who either hate Obama...

or are trolls.
Or attention seekers. I'm not sure which.

[CreekDog]

37. exactly, because if you think nothing has changed, you are not being objective

:eyes:

[stevenleser]

59. That is one interpretation. The other is...

the knowledge that the Rethugs are working 24x7 to destroy our President and any other Democratic Party elected officials that they can, and if we dont support them, they will succeed and we will be left with what we experienced for the last eight years.

With that knowledge, I'm VERY careful and cautious with criticizing any of 'our' folks, particularly early in their terms when they really haven't had an opportunity to do much yet, IMHO.

[Skwmom]

89. I wonder if some Bush supporters shared your same sentiment

when Bush was in office. Though, I don't think I really need to wonder..............

[mkultra]

109. im sure they share yours right now

[Geek_Girl]

134. You hit the nail on the head

Even though I don't agree with the bank bail outs, I don't feel comfortable railing against the president in a public forum.

There are 24x7 capable news channels already doing that and the fundies and freepers are frothing at the mouth.

[Moochy]

21. Agree so much

[QueenOfCalifornia]

23. Oh....

Okay - that shit always goes on here. You can post an OP claiming the sky is blue and that the sun crosses the sky every day and 25 different people will argue that it isn't blue all the time - sometimes it's grey and then half the time it's dark and so you are just wrong. Also, the sun doesn't do any traveling, it's the Earth that is in motion you idiot. There are people here who do everything they can to shit on a thread. No matter how innocuous your intent, you will be told you are an idiot. Some of the blatant offenders never leave this board - I mean, NEVER.

Just start using your ignore button.

Of course it is indefensible to protect the torturers. It's the "I was just following orders" mantra. It is total BS.

[Common Sense Party]

32. I guess that means you're a racist.

:sarcasm:

According to SOME threads today.

[CreekDog]

48. maybe you can find a board where your statement is a litmus test for membership

that way everyone will agree.

[MissDeeds]

94. I agree completely

It is unconscionable that there is no action on this front. Some here have even said that we should allow other countries to take the lead on this. Incredible. Any way it's spun, the fact is that BushCo is being given a pass on their crimes.

[closeupready]

99. I completely agree with you, and I have had the exact same thoughts about DU as you have.

This is a changed site. We now have those who are enthusiastically pro-war, racist, xenophobic. I just don't think I want that negative energy in my life. I used to enjoy it here, because people were liberal and traditionally Democratic. That's changed for the worse, and I'm thinking I'm going to move on.

[Moochy]

113. Those types are clearly winning here these days

[closeupready]

114. These neanderthals have inundated what used to be a marvelous, stimulating site.

Now it's all, "Fuck that shit" "Bombs away" "Round those fuckers up and ship em out" "chop his body parts away until he's hamburger".

I mean, we all have these thoughts from time to time, but how is it constructive or thoughtful of others to shit your frustration all over these forums? Which, I don't know, I guess is what we are all doing in this thread, but I don't care, I'm over this childish savagery.

[Moochy]

115. Its mostly GDP

I read that last nite, that GD is less polluted with right wingers posing as democrats, and after some reading this morning, I think that is true.

[Renew Deal]

127. There are people here that condone doing nothing at all?

I haven't seen that.

[Vanje]

16. I hear ya nt

[HamdenRice]

18. A sincere answer: Most of DU is very firmly rooted in "reality"

By that, I mean, DU at its best is extraordinarily fact based. Even when collectively we go off the deep end, it's still a fact based going off the deep end. I was thinking about how DU has been changing and was reflecting on the infamous Gannon/Guckert/Goesch threads. Supposedly, we collectively were most crazy in terms of our collective conclusions during that episode, but if you think of it, we also were doing an extraordinary amount of fact checking, massive collective sifting through data bases -- just facts that led to a dead end.

Even is the most extreme forums -- like 9/11, I/P, Guns, R/T -- DUers constantly link to and refer to factual justifications for their positions, no matter how extreme.

So to me, here's what's happening on DU lately. DU is not splitting along ideological grounds. It's splitting along empirical versus emotional lines. There are an awful lot of policy nerds here (like me). Since some time in the middle of the last Bush term, and the beginning of the primaries, there has been a huge rise in emotional content.

For policy nerds, the answers to even the biggest, most moral questions (like torture) ultimately are based on laws, facts, policy, politics and strategy.

So on the one hand I can agree wholeheartedly that torture is the worse thing our government can do. As a policy nerd, I know for a fact, that if a government official gets an opinion from the DOJ, it becomes almost impossible to prosecute him. I also know that bringing down Obama in favor of say a Palin administration in 2012 would be a complete disaster. What do you want, an imperfect Obama administration (nerd answer) or a Sampson like pulling down of the house around us because that's how angry we are?

That's not a German "just following orders" rationale. It's more nuanced than that. With the current issue you mention in your OP, it means that some CIA officials are guilty, but they simply cannot effectively be prosecuted.

That's policy nerd reality. I'm not going to scream in all caps or demand that Obama be impeached, or wail or gnash my teeth or rend my clothing because Obama has announced what is obviously, manifestly and self-evidently true.

Another part of DU, however, mostly demands emotional fidelity to what they think is "right" (even if the factual basis of what they think is right is highly questionable).

A huge amount of "poutrage" as some of call it, has no relation to actual questions of policy; they are demands for emotional solidarity.

If you want unanimous emotional solidarity in your feelings about these important issues, this probably isn't the place for you. There will be emotional solidarity, but it won't be unanimous, because there is a big policy nerd contingent here.

If you want facts, then stick around.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

20. Leave it to a lawyer....

to come up with the best rationalizations -- after all, isn't that exactly what the Bush Justice Department lawyers did when it came to torture? You are in very good company.

[kid a]

25. Can you post this as an OP so I can rec...you are right on.

[redqueen]

26. This should be an OP.

:thumbsup:

[HamdenRice]

40. In a few days

I want to think it through and expand it. I've been thinking about fact-less postings and why they've expanded and whether the theory of "Bullshit" pioneered by Princeton philosopher, Harry Frankfurt, explains what is happening.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_Bullshit

[vaberella]

95. Huh! n/t

[Political Heretic]

27. Completely disagree with your characterization. In fact, the exact opposite is often true.

The term "poutrage" is only directed at those who have dared to question or criticize anything going on. Thus, I disagree with your characterizations. The people you are suggesting have their emotions tied up in their posting are the ones who are actually constantly provide evidentiary support for their criticisms.

People have concrete specific reasons why they question oppose the current plans and handling of the financial crisis. They have concrete specific reasons why they question or oppose administration policy in Iraq and Afghanistan. They have concrete specific reasons why they question or oppose the administrations current statements or court positions on secrecy, civil rights or torture.

People making evidence-less emotional arguments are the ones blindly demanding that we worship the President without question or criticism. That's an admittedly small number of posters.

Finally, your post is incredibly dishonest, because under the mask of a reasoned tone you basically suggest that if people agree with you, they know policy, but if they don't agree with you then they are just emotional fanatics.

I know as much if not more policy and about policy than most people here. It's my field, its the focus of my masters, its been the focus of my adult life. And I'll soon be applying for PHD programs in public policy and political economy. And guess what? Even I know that people make policy-based grounded arguments on both sides of most of the issues we're talking about on DU.

There's plenty of emotion to go around on all sides. But characterizing one side as policy bereft and emotionally sensationalistic and the other side as cooly rational, is disingenuous trash designed purely to insult people engaged in honest debate.

[leftstreet]

31. +1

Exactly!

[Common Sense Party]

33. Absolutely.

DU is often one of the most overemotional, fact-challenged places in the world.

[Bluenorthwest]

47. Oh so well said.

[kid a]

51. wow...talk about dishonest, falsely drawn conclusions (you protest too much!)

Wish i could get a hold of one of your "masters" works.

[mkultra]

57. Ive seen no concrete evidence against the economic policies

Ive seen people who don't like bank or corporate bailouts and ive seen krugman loyalists that don't understand economics, but every argument so far has fallen apart after strong scrutiny.

[Occam Bandage]

71. "I've got reasons" is not a very compelling counterargument to someone else's reasons.

I haven't seen anyone blindly demanding worship. Must have been a sale on straw.

[pecwae]

88. This is a post that should be an OP.

Thank you.

[LostinVA]

126. +1

And, "poutrage" was originally aimed at GLBT posters for being upset at having their civil rights disregarded. The whole "pony" garbage also started then. It has now moved on to encompass others on DU. Welcome to the club.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

133. well written.

[CreekDog]

45. Good explanation and insights

:hi:

[mkultra]

56. Perfectly said

Facts are that much change has already happened. Its unreasonable at best, dishonest at worse, to say there has been no change in policy since W.

[Occam Bandage]

70. +1

[alcibiades_mystery]

24. Whatev...

[GreenPartyVoter]

29. Which is why God (Skinner) created teh lounge!

[Lilith Velkor]

103. The Lounge is just as riddled with bullies as GD:P

Feh.

[soulcore]

34. You aren't the only one.

And the forced split between those of us on the left who support the law and constitution and those that support the party blindly is by no means an accident.

Divide and conquer.

[CreekDog]

39. everyone who disagrees with you just supports the party "blindly"?

bullshit.

who made you God?

[soulcore]

41. That's not what I said.

To clarify .. those that support torture, rendition and the denial of basic human rights to prisoners and detainees are following the party blindly.

It's like now that the President has D next to his name we're all suddenly A-OK with torture.

It's sad.

[CreekDog]

44. then what board are you reading?

there has been a ton of criticism here of Obama specifically on the issue you mention. and many members who support Obama want torture ended (and or prosecuted).

but you just see two groups, well you certainly make it sound that way.

well if that's how you see everyone who disagrees with you, well then you are contributing to the division.

[mkultra]

60. exactly

i love Obama but im not real keen about the lack of torture prosecutions. I think that he may at the current time need to defer that responsibility to congress or he may need to insure that the current focus is on the economy. I think i just have an marginal element of trust that he will move more in my direction that W every would.

There are more important fish to fry and im not outraged. We know that those who are outraged probably have an impassioned reason to feel the way that they do, but try to remember that not everyone who isn't outraged hasn't thought it through.

[CreekDog]

62. i'm wondering how successful we would be at prosecuting

though i don't like the idea of letting that activity skate by.

still when legal justifications were created, that is going to make this far from an easy case to try.

but i would be uncomfortable with just writing everything off, but that's not what i'm seeing here --it seems like these decisions are in flux.

[mkultra]

65. well, considering that ex post facto is a provision in the constitution

i would say that it is impossible to successfully try the individuals involved as the action was legal at the time.

[geek tragedy]

100. No, we dislike the holier-than-thou purists who condemn

everyone who don't agree with them as sellouts.

Such arrogance on your part is not becoming.

[Hippo_Tron]

36. Fact is that this is a message board for anybody whose views are to the left of the GOP

And on the world scale that's an incredibly broad political spectrum and thus it would make sense that there is as much squabble as there is on DU.

[mmonk]

97. Yep. You are right.

[CreekDog]

38. There's tons of people here agreeing with you

I've been reading your opinions in this thread and what the hell?

You expect all of us to agree with you 100%?

Grow up. Seriously.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

42. Well, you know all that business about doors and asses.

Have fun.

[CakeGrrl]

49. Is it really that important to "fit"?

I don't know if I do either, but that's not what it's about for me.

I'm not well-known or much acknowledged here, but I still check out the great picture threads, see feedback on stuff that's happened to figure out what I've missed on TV, or get heads-up on things I might miss.

If I see a point with which I strongly agree or disagree, I'll add my $.02 just for the record.

But that's me - maybe others need a higher level social interaction, as it were...

[Number23]

50. That's a good question. It's amazing how many grown people still feel the need to "fit in"

I'm not even a damned Democrat (I'm an independent) and I feel comfortable as hell here.

Do people on DU get on my nerves?? Every single day. Do I sometimes say I'm never coming back here, and then five minutes later do?? Every single day. Do I sometimes wish I could take a chain saw to some of the more annoying posters here?? Every single day. :) lol

But I guess it's because I genuinely don't give a crap about all of the personalities and the 6,000 DU "cliques" that damn near consume this place sometimes that there is very little chance that someone could say something to me and run me off. In fact, all of the feverish and frothing anti-Obama sentiment on the board has made me come to the site MORE frequently in the last few months.

I am currently living in Australia. If it wasn't for DU, I could go weeks without having a good discussion on American politics and that would be unbearable. So screw all of this high school "need to fit in" crap. I'm a grown @ss woman.

[CreekDog]

63. hell, the OP fits in with probably 50% of the people on this board

many if not more than half already agree with the OP on that issue.

[Peacetrain]

54. Well CakeGrrl, I am a square peg in that proverbial round hole many time myself

:toast:

[CakeGrrl]

81. Here's to square pegs, Peacetrain!

:)

[FrenchieCat]

52. Cry us a river, why don't you?

[avaistheone1]

80. Is that really necessary?

Not very nice.

[Moochy]

93. Hey its legal to waterboard us in that river!

DOJ wrote a memo!

[Name removed]

61. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Canuckistanian]

67. Like a square peg in a round hole?

Then you fit like a glove here.

I've seen all kinds. And some of them are still here after all these years.

Come back, where there's life and the aspens are turning and their roots interconnect...

Or something like that.

[Occam Bandage]

68. Then leave. nt

[grantcart]

76. not the emotional cringing response he was looking for

[Captain_Nemo]

78. These are the posts that DU has been about lately. "Then leave."

It used to be a good place to hang out.

NOw, if you don't praise every step of the current administration you are shunned, booed, kicked off.

That's not being a progressive, to me. Progressives question.

When you stop questioning you become part of the problem.

[avaistheone1]

79. Well said, captain.

I agree. Furthermore, some people here behave like the Bush sheeple do when there is any criticism of Bush.

[geek tragedy]

101. It's not policy criticism, it's the excessive drama and bullshit.

Obama won't prosecute. He's just like Bush and is immoral.

Obama won't nationalize the banks. He's just like Bush.

Policy criticism doesn't get shouted down. Sometimes it gets disagreed with.

It's the freaking purist fanatics who find a new reason to condemn the Obama administration in the same tone as the Teabaggers that draw some much deserved return fire.

[Occam Bandage]

110. The statement isn't "leave if you don't praise."

It's "leave if you don't think you belong here."

[Danger Mouse]

72. That's just absurd.

It's no nastier than it's ever been, some people are just too thin-skinned to handle it.
The problem is that people refuse to acknowledge that their own shit stinks.
Trying to pretend that the problem is all 'the poutragers' or all the 'O-bots' is either stupid or lying.
There are plenty of problems on both sides of this issue.

[PVnRT]

74. I realized that weeks ago

Which is why I haven't been bothering to come back. I think it's the wine that's keeping me awake that prompted to click on the site in my bookmarks, and, lo and behold, it's the same shit different day.

There is a vast, wonderful world on the internet outside of DU, full of progressive news, good analysis, and interesting opinion pieces. Listening to the fanboiz and girlz in forums and comments sections is a waste of time.

[avaistheone1]

83. I am sorry to hear so many progressives are feeling so uncomfortable here

that they have to go elsewhere to get news etc, and to express their opinions.

That stinks.

[EFerrari]

75. LBN is a great forum.

:)

[Captain_Nemo]

77. WHat is LBN?

[EFerrari]

82. Late Breaking News. n/t

[omega minimo]

84. fuck it

:evilfrown:

[donheld]

86. I've never been sure I fit in here

I don't have the time that others seem to have to read everything. I'm not eloquent like so many.
I really don't try to "fit in" I just be myself and enjoy the good stuff and ignore the crap. I'm here now, and have been for quite sometime. It's going to take more than a few ninnies to chase me out.

[DFW]

87. I feel pretty much the same way.

Demanding day job and all that.

[ima_sinnic]

92. I hear you, but have decided to chill for a bit because

a good point made somewhere on DU is that the president cannot appear to be prosecuting "enemies" for political reasons. On one hand, this is a rationalization for his doing nothing, but on the other hand, reality sucks and "appearance" is everything. The work can be done behind the scenes without his open involvement. Another reason to step back a bit is that release of the torture memos is a catalyst for things to develop, maybe fairly quickly. As also pointed out, he has left the door wide open for those who wrote the memos and took it upon themselves to instruct that illegal acts were "legal" to be prosecuted. The details of what "they" said and wrote are now available around the world.

I have also noticed that bitching too much about it here on DU does not do much besides incur hostility interspersed with a few agreeing remarks. Better to direct any comments to those who can really do something about it (president, Congress, AG). There is a case to be made, however, for pointing out injustices and inconsistencies here no DU: the board is read by many from all areas and does influence those seeking answers. At risk of sounding like an "apologist," I think I've come to see the wisdom of taking a "wait and see" attitude for the moment to see what happens next. It is possible that the duty, the need for those "in charge" to prosecute the traitors and war criminals to the full extent of the law will become overwhelming on the basis of worldwide public opinion as well as those of disgruntled Democrats. We need to direct our sense of urgency and duty about this to Congress more than to Obama IMO.

[geek tragedy]

98. Since this isn't a site dedicated to trashing the Obama administration,

no you're probably not a good fit.

C. Ya.

[DevonRex]

107. I hope it's not a site where everyone always jumps to the most damning conclusion about Obama

and anything he does. Time and time again those who jump to the worst conclusion have been proven wrong. I would think folks might want to wait a few days at least to see what comes of anything Obama does, and what other democrats in office think about it, and what they can do WITH Obama's actions.

For instance, now Congress has lots of ammo to go ahead with an investigation of torture. They didn't before. That's a good thing.

[Peacetrain]

111. From your lips to Gods ear.. as they say.. 3 days

always works for me.. if I jump a story before then, nearly always, it ends up getting changed.. the first story you hear is just chapter one or two.. especially with Obama..

[unapatriciated]

118. k&R

so we will no longer stay the silent majority because of weariness .
May we raise our voices so loud that all can hear that WE the people do not condone torture.

sometimes it is the smallest voice that is the loudest. Seuss was a very smart man, maybe we should all send Obama a copy of Horton Hears a Who..

[WestSeattle2]

119. Morons vs. Mensa

Anywhere we go on the web there are fanatics, Left or Right it doesn't matter. I search for thoughtful and intelligent commentaries, the irrational, immature, and downright nonsensical rants I ignore. There is a broad spectrum of participants on this board, from poorly educated individuals who are not prepared for intelligent discussions, to highly educated individuals who see and understand the bigger picture and are equipped to debate public policy on merits. I certainly would not leave a discussion board based on the actions or words of a few.

[Skwmom]

120. Hmmm.... so you think only highly educated individuals are

able to see and understand the bigger picture.......


It seems like the three stooges (a.k.a, Obama's economic team) are highly educated and they have a long history of failure. It takes a special kind of idiot to push for financial deregulation, free-trade, etc.

And what about all of those highly educated schmucks on Wall Street?

A lot of highly educated individuals wouldn't be qualified to join Mensa. I've met a lot of idiots with college degrees and a lot of really smart people that only graduated high school. You really need to get out more and broaden your horizons.

[BlooInBloo]

121. You'll have to do a lot better than that, if you wanna make the GBCW top 10 list.

:P

[H2O Man]

131. DU goes in cycles,

and those cycles, like any wheel, move in a direction as they spin. Sometimes when the larger wheel we know as "society" begins to spin too quickly, it is good to step away, and take time to find a quiet spot, before regrouping and getting back on. The same holds true with the smaller wheels.

One thing about the DU wheel is that when it heads in the wrong direction -- and it sometimes does -- there are advantages for one's self and for the DU community in participating from the in-between spot -- not fully on the wheel, and not fully in the quuiet spot.