Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

History Lesson: JFK (In regards to Prosecution of CIA for torture)

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-17-09 11:41 AM
Original message
History Lesson: JFK (In regards to Prosecution of CIA for torture)
Edited on Fri Apr-17-09 11:42 AM by Taverner
Read this for background info - I'm not going to repost this from wiki...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_John_F._Kennedy_assassination

JFK had already fired Allan Dulles as head of the CIA.

"Only three days after the disastrous Cuban defeat, Kennedy set up a Cuban Study Group headed by Gen. Maxwell Taylor to ‘direct special attention to the lessons which can be learned from recent events in Cuba.’

“With that action, which received little notice at the time, the President declared war on the agency. The Cuban Study Group was one of the most important creations of the Kennedy presidency, and it was the source of one of the major pressure points on the way to the guns of Dallas on November 22, 1963.

“Kennedy’s good friend Supreme Court justice William O. Douglas, in recalling a discussion he had with Kennedy shortly after the disaster, said:

This episode seared him. He had experienced the extreme power that these groups had, these various insidious influences of the CIA and the Pentagon, on civilian policy, and I think it raised in his own mind the specter: Can Jack Kennedy, President of the United States, ever be strong enough to really rule these two powerful agencies? I think it had a profound effect . . . it shook him up!”

L. Fletcher Prouty. (1992). JFK: The CIA, Vietnam, and the Plot to Assassinate John F. Kennedy


Though he was responsible for creating it, President Harry S. Truman had begun to see the insidious power of the CIA. In a column that appeared in the Washington Post on December 21, 1963, he expressed his grave doubts about this sinister agency:

“For some time I have been disturbed by the way the CIA has been diverted from its original assignment. It has become an operational and at times a policy-making arm of the government...

“I never had any thought that when I set up the CIA that it would be injected into peacetime cloak-and- dagger operations. Some of the complications and embarrassment that I think we have experienced are in part attributable to the fact that this quiet intelligence arm of the President has been so removed from its intended role that it is being interpreted as a symbol of sinister and mysterious foreign intrigue and a subject for Cold War enemy propaganda.”

What the rest of the world feels about the CIA can best be understood from "the words of Arnold Toynbee, the eminent British historian and friend of the United States, as quoted in the New York Times of May 7, 1971:
"To most Europeans, I guess, America now looks like the
most dangerous country in the world. Since America is
unquestionably the most powerful country, the transformation
of America's image within the last thirty years is very
frightening for Europeans. It is probably still more frightening
for the great majority of the human race who are neither
Europeans nor North Americans, but are Latin Americans,
Asians, and Africans. They, I imagine, feel even more insecure
than we feel. They feel that, at any moment, America may
intervene in their internal affairs, with the same appalling
consequences as have followed from the American intervention
in Southeast Asia.

"For the world as a whole, the CIA has now become the bogey
that communism has been for America. Wherever there is
trouble, violence, suffering, tragedy, the rest of us are now
quick to suspect the CIA had a hand in it. Our phobia about
the CIA is, no doubt, as fantastically excessive as America's
phobia about world communism; but in this case, too, there is
just enough convincing guidance to make the phobia genuine.
In fact, the roles of America and Russia have been reversed in
the world's eyes. Today America has become the nightmare."


http://www.hermes-press.com/cia1.htm

OK - knowing what we know about what followed: the escalation in Vietnam, CIA getting huge huge huge black budgets approved without question, Operation Mongoose, Operation Condor, Bush I's CIA, Secret Bombings of Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos, Support for El Salvador's death squads, etc...

Do you STILL think it would be a good idea for Obama to go after the CIA at this time?

And, when you answer that question, pretend you are telling it to a grieving Michelle, Sasha and Malia.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
villager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-17-09 11:45 AM
Response to Original message
1. So we just accept permanent checkmate by the CIA, viz. the Presidency?
Even on those ultra-rare occasions someone decent is occupying the Oval Office?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-17-09 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. No but we don't go out in a hail of bullets either
Lets just say Obama went after the CIA. So they take him out. Then what? Oh, yeah, freedom will fall from the sky and rainbows will be on every corner, right?

Just because our man is in office doesn't mean we're 100% in charge
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
villager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-17-09 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. I don't disagree. But how do we finish the work JFK started...?
:shrug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-17-09 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. I don't know - I really wish I did - and I hope Obama can do it
He, if anyone, could pull it off

That, or a Bush kid who wasn't evil. The only reason W is still alive today is because of his last name. Any other president outs a CIA agent, and they would find themselves dead too.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-17-09 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. Plame was outed because her husband was questioning the official story
and Bushco & their friends could not tolerate that. No one was ever in danger for outing this particular CIA agent.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-17-09 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. No but the CIA does not take that lightly
And if it were anybody besides a Bush, how long do you think they would have lived?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-17-09 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. I think the CIA didn't care because they weren't happy with Joe Wilson
blowing the whistle on Bushco either - if they were someone would have paid for this. But they don't seem especially concerned about those who don't follow the script.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-17-09 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #3
12. Perhaps if the President were to tell the people who was really running the country
we could get past this.

Tell us who the CIA is really taking orders from, tell us who really killed JFK and why, tell us how they're threatening you. Remind the country what Eisenhower said about the military industrial complex - or FDR's opinion about who really ran the government. Not going public merely helps to reinforce the status quo.

Face it, if he's not willing to go after the underlings, he's not going to go after the people actually running the show.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-17-09 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. He gave us the memos - thats more than any of us could have asked for
I'm still amazed that some here think he was going to go all Rambo here

He has empowered us to take this to the courts. That leaves him alive to fight another day.

Do you have any idea what the CIA is capable of? They took out Jacobo Árbenz, Allende, Both Kennedys and countless others.

So how would you explain that to his grieving kids? I'm waiting....

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-17-09 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #15
24. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-17-09 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #24
33. You'll have to point out to me where I said that
Actually, jerk, I was very young when my dad died and I would not wish that on anyone. However, I don't have a lot of respect for someone who is not willing to live up to the oath they took to protect and defend the Constitution - I didn't when Bush was president and I don't now.

But, Obama is no more precious to his children than were the parents who have died (and will die) as result of criminal actions of the Bush administration and their henchmen were to their kids. Anyone who runs for president knows what kind of risk they may be taking - if they are not willing to take that risk then they shouldn't run.

How many more will die in unnecessary wars because we can't elect leaders who are brave enough to stand up to the military/industrial complex?





Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HopeOverFear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-17-09 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. it's implied. Actually, it's not implied, you outright said it
Edited on Fri Apr-17-09 01:18 PM by HopeOverFear
which is shameful. Spare me your sob stories.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-17-09 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. No I didn't
but you're free to read anything you want into it.

It really is a pity you have no concern for those who have suffered as a result of the CIA's actions and apparently would be content to have even more people hurt rather than see anyone who might actually be able to do something about it take a stand against them.





Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shagsak Donating Member (328 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-17-09 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #15
31. I thought Oswald killed Kenedy
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Phx_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-17-09 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #31
40. You probably wouldn't think that if you spend time reading about
it. Oswald worked for the CIA.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shagsak Donating Member (328 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-18-09 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #40
65. trained by the CIA
What does that prove? That he had a skill level high enough to warrant their training. Maybe that proves he was skilled enough to pull it off. It's all speculation without rock solid evidence.

I have researched enough to know that I don't know what happened. It hasn't been proven beyond the shadow of a doubt, therefore it is still a theory IMO. Just because you can punch some holes in the documentation of the events that day, doesn't prove the conspiracy.

On the other hand I can prove that the government bombed the pentagon and the twin towers, and poisons the population daily using chemtrails.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Thothmes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-17-09 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #31
59. According to a lot of folks on this forum
the only organizations that did not participate in the conspiricy to kill President Kennedy were the Boy Scouts of America and the Women's Christian Temperance Union.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-18-09 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #31
64. That's exactly what they wanted you to think.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
avaistheone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-18-09 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #15
62. That is the same question we should ask those who send our young people to fight in Afghanistan and
and in Iraq.



Those people have children too. They are just as important as Obama is to his children. Who will answer to those children?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Baby Snooks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-18-09 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #12
77. Who do you think ?
George HW Bush calls the shots. The way his father and Allen Dulles did.

Who, rather than what, do you think Eisenhower was warning us about?

Congress knows. Congress should dissolve the agency known as the CIA.

What are they going to do? Kill all the members of Congress?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Phx_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-17-09 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #1
39. Maybe YOU should wage war on the CIA. We'd like to keep our
Edited on Fri Apr-17-09 01:36 PM by Phx_Dem
President alive.

To argue that by not prosectuing agents for torture, we are allowing them to do whatever they want, is nothing short of stupid. They tortured because the Bush Administration and the Dept. of Justice told them to, and further assured them it was legal. I'm not sure the CIA cared if it was legal, but the courts say that is an important distinction.

This President, has discontinued the practice of torture and has NOT ruled out prosectuing those at DOJ responsible for drafting the memos that outlined what kinds of torture was permissable, nor has he ruled out prosecuting those to ordered the torture. I don't personally give a rats ass if the agents that carried out the administrations orders are prosecuted. The CIA is bad news and prosecuting a few agents who carried out the President's instructions, is not going to change that. What it could do is change President Obama's current status as a living, breathing person. Not acceptable. Sorry.

Instead of cutting off the snake's rattler, how 'bout we cut off it's head? That seems like a much better idea and would actually kill the beast.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-18-09 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #1
70. Conspiracy Theories are prescriptions for that sort of thing...

The ultimate message of all of them is "why bother, 'they' are in control and all-powerful".

Of course they are in control, since there is no historical event which doesn't fit into one or another set of grand historical conspiracies.

"They" manage to maintain remarkable generational continuity as well.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Soylent Brice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-17-09 11:56 AM
Response to Original message
4. brilliant reminder, and should be read by every DUer.
K&R
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-17-09 11:59 AM
Response to Original message
5. Thank you, Taverner. (nt)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
loveandlight Donating Member (138 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-17-09 12:04 PM
Response to Original message
7. thanks for the info
Although I have always believed the true story of JFK's death hasn't been told, I never knew this info about the Cuban crisis and the CIA. Makes you stop and think in relation to some other threads going on about how President Obama is going slow, being deliberate, knows what he is doing. Maybe he is just being very very careful, trying to find a way around this without getting himself killed. If you read Greenwald, one thing he insists on is that the people need to push for an investigation, get a special prosecutor, whatever, to get these people to trial, not to rely only on the Obama administration to do it themselves.But if that happens because of a popular ground swell, it kind of takes our President off the hot seat. hmmm....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-17-09 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. That's what I'm thinking. As a result, I'm contributing extra to the ACLU
They have a case in the works....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-17-09 12:10 PM
Response to Original message
9. I don't think it's a good idea
To me, the correct direction is to bring public pressure to bear on Congress to support Leahy and Feingold with investigations. This gives Obama some cover while moving things forward in bringing accountability to Bushco. Obama put the evidence out there. He doesn't have to be the one to push prosecutions. Congress can do it more safely.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-17-09 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Or we can support the ACLU in their case
There are many options

The fact that we are even seeing these memos says something
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-17-09 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. Agree nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Amonester Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-17-09 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
10. The good man is also a good father.
And he wants to continue being the best daddy his beautifil girls have.

I think I heard him say that a couple of times.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-17-09 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #10
17. There are a lot of children who have lost a parent in an illegal war
Those children were no less deserving of having their fathers with them than Obama's daughters. Prosecuting those responsible for that war and the crimes committed in its name would bring those who have lost a loved one some justice.

He should not have run for president if he was not willing to run the same risk every parent in the military takes.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-17-09 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. Wow - cold, selfish and emotionless!
I am stunned at how unfeeling you are - how Machiavellian "ends justify the means" you are

I hope you don't ever make life and death decisions
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HopeOverFear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-17-09 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. aint that the TRUTH? God DAMN!
that's a cold motherfucker, right there...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-17-09 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. Would she say JFK's death was worth it too?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-17-09 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #25
30. No I don't
but would we have been better off had he just let the CIA do what it wanted to do? At least he tried to do what was right and if we had had a president who was willing to let us know the truth about what had happened to JFK we might not be in the mess we're in today. As it is, they've continued in their mission to protect the militiary/industrial complex and done a fine job because everyone is too afraid of them to take a stand. The fact that this has resulted in the deaths of thousands of others apparently means nothing.





Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-17-09 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #20
26. I am not the one who is saying some children are more deserving
of having their parents stay safe.

And yes, the president of the United States must be willing to take risks. He takes the same oath to protect the Constitution from all enemies "foreign and domestic" that every member of the military takes. Why is it permissible to continue to risk the lives of ordinary soldiers while the Commander in Chief plays it safe by letting war criminals off the hook?



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-17-09 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. I don't want ANYONE'S parents killed!
this is pointless
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FiveGoodMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-17-09 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #20
54. Why are you being emotionless toward all the dead kids
that BushCo's lies created?

And will create in the future?

Especially if we make it a permanent policy to ignore war crimes?

Empathy is great, but why is it reserved only for Obama? Those million dead Iraqi civilians are people, too.

If your premise about why Obama cannot act is correct, then our next president absolutely MUST be someone without any close living relatives.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HopeOverFear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-17-09 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. wait, you're saying the President should be willing to run the same risk of getting killed
as a solider in the military? What kind of sick parallel universe do YOU live in?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Amonester Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-17-09 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #17
23. He should not have run for president if he was not willing to take risks.
I agree. But he did, and he is the President now.

(And I'm glad he won over one of the craziest-scariest opposing ticket in History.)

Better luck to US next time.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-17-09 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #10
27. I read today that 'we' tortured kids
with insects in coffin like spaces, kids aged 9 and 11 for what their parents may have done.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-17-09 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. All this needs to come out in the ACLU case
And thankfully, we have a President who is releasing such info
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Politicalboi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-17-09 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #27
58. Few years back
We heard about children being raped in front of their parents to talk. So this is just the tip of the iceberg.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HopeOverFear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-17-09 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
18. I cannot rec this enough...thank you
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
GeorgeGist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-17-09 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
32. Obviously a certain amount of corruption is necessary ...
to maintain the integrity of the United States of America.


Now explain why the USA deserves to exist.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-17-09 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #32
35. Because it beats Anarchy, Theocracy or Full Scale Totalitarianism
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-17-09 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
34. Ray McGovern thinks so.
You can see what he has to say about it here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkpAxyVhdLU
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hootinholler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-17-09 01:18 PM
Response to Original message
37. 36 replies and only 11 recs. What's wrong with that picture?
This needs to be understood by many more.

-Hoot
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-17-09 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
41. Oh, another assassination blackmail thread.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-17-09 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. Yes, the CIA would NEVER do that would they?
They just go to cocktail parties all day - nothing to see here :eyes:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-17-09 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. Maybe but it's pretty stupid to transmute a torture discussion into an assassination discussion.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-17-09 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #43
44. Nice to see you jump all over the board - when you start losing one argument you start another
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-17-09 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #44
45. Hey, it's your leap, I'm just trying to follow.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-17-09 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #45
46. I didn't jump anywhere
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-17-09 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #46
47. JFK, Allen Dulles, Bay of Pigs, Maxwell Taylor, William O. Douglas, Harry Truman, Arnold Toynbee,
Operation Mongoose, El Salvador death squads . . . .

Who are you, Billy Joel?

I haven't seen so much jumping since the Olympics.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-17-09 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #47
48. And what do these all have in common? DING DING DING - that's right, the "company"
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-17-09 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #48
49. And what exactly do they have to do with - DONG DONG DONG - "the memos"?
If you believe Obama stated he will not prosecute because he fears assassination, state that ridiculous assertion without the Tom Clancy melodrama.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-17-09 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #49
50. Trollman, you make me laugh
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-17-09 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #50
51. Your OP will make more sense at 4:20.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kurt_and_Hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-17-09 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #47
56. DUzy!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-17-09 02:55 PM
Response to Original message
52. Clearly Obama had better not fire Allen Dulles
:eyes:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bigjohn16 Donating Member (747 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-17-09 02:57 PM
Response to Original message
53. It's bigger than President Obama
If he won't start an investigation because of a fear of retribution from the CIA than he isn't fit to be Commander and Chief. This is about the future of America and it's about who we want to be as human beings.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FiveGoodMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-17-09 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #53
55. +!
:applause:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Politicalboi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-17-09 04:30 PM
Response to Original message
57. If President Obama
Didn't see this coming then he is naive. My guess is he knew and he is doing it with caution. I'm sure he's read a lot about JFK, MLK, RFK, and the CIA and he's buds with Ted.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-17-09 08:15 PM
Response to Original message
60. Bush slandered the CIA by blaming the Iraq "intelligence failures" on them
I REALLY thought that the CIA would try to punish him for that.

But nothing happened, at least politically.

So then I thought, who has the CIA really been run by for the past couple of decades?

Then it hit me......
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bottomtheweaver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-18-09 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #60
73. The Bushlers own the CIA, at least the covert ops part.
Junior can call the hired help anything he wants.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-18-09 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #73
75. Oh, I realize that
I just hoped that at least one of them would have the huevos to be a whistle-blower.

Because sometimes even the hired help can fight back if they're pushed hard enough.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-18-09 09:31 AM
Response to Original message
61. Worker bees are not the problem...
It's the people that are given the power to run amok..and they are given that power by the United States government. I remember reading that when the shit hits the fan, first the people will be blamed. Then the government. But never the people who own the government. The Corporations and Industry Giants that our military/intelligence/defense department serves.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TheBigotBasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-18-09 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #61
68. Worker bees become bigger bees.
The low levels should not be ignored. They will join a future administration.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-18-09 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #68
71. I think worker bees will always be worker bees...
they don't have the right genetics to be big bees. They serve the big bees. There is always new wealth started somewhere, but it takes generational wealth to join the big bee club.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-18-09 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
63. Great info, Taverner. No, it is definitely not a good time, imo.
Edited on Sat Apr-18-09 12:40 PM by Fire1
In view of the Military Commissions Act of 2006 there is nothing prosecutable. But there is more than one way to skin a cat, as the saying goes.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Sebastian Doyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-18-09 04:02 PM
Response to Original message
66. You're asking the wrong question.
You ask should we risk President Obama's life by prosecuting the CIA

I ask why we have not yet ABOLISHED the CIA when any human being with a functional brain knows that they are 1) a subsidiary of the Bush Crime Family and 2) Already responsible for the murder of at least one President. And his brother. And the most influential civil rights leader in this country's history. Among God knows how many others.

We the people need to demand justice for what these pieces of shit have done. There are NO heroes in the CIA, and Valerie Plame is just as vile as Larry Johnson or Poppy Bush. Don't buy into their crap. They are all criminals. The very purpose and existence of the CIA is criminal. There are no more "good people" in the CIA than there are in the fucking Mafia.

If we make it clear that WE ALL KNOW THIS TO BE THE TRUTH and that we are not taking their shit, they will have a Hell of a time getting away with murdering another President.

If you want to make the case for a body that gathers foreign intelligence, let's make a legitimate one.

Not founded by Hitler funding traitors. Not ones who CREATE the enemies, and then demand we spend billions fighting them. Not the biggest drug dealing terrorist body on the face of the earth.

FUCK the CIA. Bring them down, before they finish what they started in 1963, and destroy this country completely.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TheBigotBasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-18-09 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #66
69. I agree with you on this.
I have also raised whether Larry Johnson is deliberately winding up his bigoted readership to go for assassination. He has officially discouraged it on his own blog (the fact that he had to do so is telling), but his alternative mouth piece, StormFront Susan continues to rile up the readership, yet again a few weeks ago she was pushing again the Obama is a Muslim meme. You can not say he does not know about her posts. Any sane posts are put into moderation, the most extreme get free reign.

I do not accept that he knows nothing about the sheer hatred of the President encouraged by some of his of his front page writers. If his site is not on a watch list the only explanation for it not being so is that it serves as a harvest site for the Security Services.

There is an awful lot linking the attempted assassination of Ronald Reagan to Bush Sr, all of those links go back to the CIA and the associates of Bush Sr. That includes CIA links to the family of John Hinkley Jr - who were dining with Bush Sr the night before the attempt.

Bush Jr was never going to be under threat because he had the protection of Daddy and he was POTUS in name only. The Dick dealt with national security issues and no other Vice President has ever assumed the powers he did.

The CIA is a terrorist organisation and the UN have condemned its involvement in Central American Countries, the only reason they have not been declared a terrorist organisation by the Security Council is the power of veto held by the US.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bottomtheweaver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-18-09 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #66
72. Agree completely. It needs to go and the sooner the better.
If abolishing it is going to require a monumental shitfight, then we'd better start gearing up. Unfortunately I don't think this is a fight the O administration has any stomach for, but I'm hoping I'm wrong, because if they don't take down the CIA, the CIA will take down them, one way or another, unless they sing to every wretched tune the Bushlers pipe.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TheBigotBasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-18-09 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #66
76. And just in case there are those who think Larry Johnson is now an innocent media pundit.
Edited on Sat Apr-18-09 10:30 PM by TheBigotBasher
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
amborin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-18-09 06:37 PM
Response to Original message
67. good post!
scary, too
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bottomtheweaver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-18-09 10:15 PM
Response to Original message
74. Do you fight a malignant tumor or do you let it grow?
I don't think he has much of a choice, if he wants to accomplish anything other than more submission, complicity, and triangulation, and I truly think he does.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri Apr 19th 2024, 05:52 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC