"If the superfan culture that brought Obama to power is going to transform itself into independent"

[omega minimo]

"This is a good thing. If the superfan culture that brought Obama to power is going to transform itself into an independent political movement, one fierce enough to produce programs capable of meeting the current crises, we are all going to have to stop hoping and start demanding."

"...one fierce enough to produce programs capable of meeting the current crises..."

http://www.naomiklein.org/main

IMHO that quote is the main point of a recent Naomi Klein essay titled "A Lexicon of Disappointment."

It echoes the recent comments by William Greider on Moyers Journal: it is possible to support this president and raise a non-violent ruckus to help him lead to serve the people, not just politicians and banksters.

We must speak up. That is how democracy works. Or doesn't.

IMHO that is not the strongest piece Naomi Klein has written in an extraordinary and prescient body of work.

And the lexicon, such as it was, is not the main point. The "stop hoping and start demanding" is the main point.

"...one fierce enough to produce programs capable of meeting the current crises..."

Some of us do not need a "lexicon of disappointment" because we are not disappointed because we did not have extraordinary expectations in the first place.

When will stop picking on each other and join to help our president do the right thing, by hoping and demanding, raising a non-violent ruckus, paying attention and contacting Congress; to fulfill the promise of participatory democracy while we still can?

[billyoc]

1. Sorry, Naomi, the superfans are NOT going to transform themselves.

[Thrill]

2. That article in nonsense

[BlooInBloo]

3. I kan haz my pony then plz?

[Cha]

10. After you learn to

spell..you know what an elistist Obama is:)

[TheBigotBasher]

4. The artcle is fundamentally flawed.

The President has been delivering his programme, the House has responded, Republican voting Democratic Senators have not quite responded. They need to be reminded of why they hold their seats.

[omega minimo]

5. your comment sounds consistent with the spirit of the pull quote

:thumbsup:

[TheBigotBasher]

12. In some ways

but the power of the Obama grass roots campaign team needs to be directed at not just more Democrats (one more once Franken is seated will be great), but at better Democrats. Ones who are prepared to speak for the grass roots of the Party, those who cannot lobby.

[omega minimo]

15. point well taken

[HopeOverFear]

6. "There has never been anything false about hope" - Barack Obama

Naomi Klein can kiss my fat ass

[omega minimo]

8. if there were troublemakers here, that would be example of a perfect post

:toast:

[Solomon]

7. She just late to the party is all. This is nothing different

than what Obama has been saying all along and in his campaign. To really have a democracy, people have to be involved and do the work of it. People just can't sit on their asses, watch American Idol, play video games all day, and expect democracy to work. Then they complain and moan about "government". "Turn the video games off" and other themes I've heard continually from Obama. And it appears that he is trying to put that in effect to a better degree, considering the circumstances that he's under.

Now people are acting like they are forcing him to do this when the truth of the matter is, he is relying on people getting involved. There's no loss for him in that. The more people that are aware the more supporters he gains by default simply because there are more poor and middle class people, than there are rich.

So I wish people would stop impugning things to events such as a prod from the left. Inevitable kneejerking occurs, "this means he's not progressive enough" when he needs credible sources to prod him from the left, simply to make room for things he wants and has to do. I don't think anybody, not matter what their political stripe is, can deny that he has to take delicate steps on almost everything.

[omega minimo]

9. Well put. And I think many of us can agree on these clear and wise statements. Solomon

:applause: including Mr. President

[Peacetrain]

11. .....

:thumbsup:

[BeFree]

22. Out on a limb....

....you don't get a damn thing done if ya don't go out on a limb.

It's leadership. If Obama is afraid to go out ahead of us, that he is happy to be where he is and wants to go no further, then that's all she wrote.

Obama needs to tell us he's going on out further and we'll follow, otherwise it's just more of the same. And look where that's got us!!

[omega minimo]

33. we lead, they follow, even this late in the game.....

http://www.thomhartmann.com

[BeFree]

43. We lead?

That's a joke. Oh, maybe in the long run, as it seems the late great liberals always were ten years ahead of everyone else.

But right now, in the condition this country is in, what we need is radical change, and that's the kind of change I campaigned and voted for. But the extent of what I see is pussyfooting around the big issues: War, outlaws walking free, and deficits as far as the eye can see.

I fear that's all she wrote. It's over without some radical change, and Obama, I fear, is happy where he is - clinging hard to the establishment trunk of modern politics. A trunk that is rotten to its core.

He needs to go out on the limb and show some real leadership.

[omega minimo]

47. ok

is there a pitchfork at the end of that limb?

[BeFree]

48. Well

Obama did say he was between us and them, eh?

He knows. He friggin knows the sad shape we are in. But now that he's in power it seems he's forgetting all that. Hope I am wrong, but it is what it is.

[Adelante]

73. Absolutely right nt

[biopowertoday]

13. One of the right things we can

push for is single payer health care reform. NOT the insurance reform that is coming out of the WH now.

[omega minimo]

18. esp. if current plan still ties coverage to employment .......................

[biopowertoday]

92. What are you saying?

[zeemike]

14. It would be different if this had been written a year of two

down the road and not much had been accomplished.
But it has only been a few months and we do see change almost every day.
It sounds more like someone trying to insert a wedge in a crack.
I have never believed that the enormous problems Obama faces would be solved quickly.

[omega minimo]

16. understood. yet some of the issues are urgent. not time to sit back or be silent

".... independent political movement, one fierce enough to produce programs capable of meeting the current crises...."

[TheBigotBasher]

17. Nor Do I

I also note that some of the critics of Obama tend to focus on the wrong person - President Obama himself. Criticisms from the real moderate wing of the Democratic Party (the Left), need to target their bows at those who have been elected on his coat tails and then stand opposed to it. Republican voting Democrats who are prepared to water down tax cuts for the low waged but then vote for tax cuts for dead millionaires.

[omega minimo]

19. also seems a good idea to focus on what "good" Dems in Congress are doing right

[TheBigotBasher]

24. Agreed

Re-electing good Democrats must be a key priority as well.

[zeemike]

26. Exactly right.

The pressure needs to be put on the congressmen that compromise progressive issues not Obama.

[Solomon]

20. Ahh but they can if you apply focus to fundamental

points. When I litigated cases, I always seized the footing and basement in a case. I let the other guy wail about the roof and the windows. But my issues were always more fundamental, they being in the very footing of the structure. If you don't lay a structure out right on a solid footing, it can't get anywhere.

Just a focused wedge in a fundamental point of a structure, can fix a hell of a lot of things, because since the structure has been repaired, the walls and so forth can work as they were meant to work in the first place without further messing around.

I think this is Obama's best feature. The ability to set up a contradiction in such a way that constructive focus can be applied to it.

[omega minimo]

28. shim

a focused wedge, finesse, a shim..... balance.

"I think this is Obama's best feature. The ability to set up a contradiction in such a way that constructive focus can be applied to it."

Very interesting. :think: And that finessed language is also why some of us had realistic expectations of this candidate during the run. His "ability to set up a contradiction" gives him a lot of wiggle room, in what he says vs. what the outcome is......

If I understand your point correctly, it also REQUIRES that constructive focus, due to the potential for Walk not matching the Talk. Or language that allows different POV to all hear what they want to hear and assume that their hoped for action will follow effortlessly..........

[Solomon]

36. Well, he's got everybody yelling their head off on DU

doesn't he. Issues get generated by Obama trying to do the right thing. Whether he will or not depends upon how much support he gets from the people. That's the bottom line. He can't just step up there for example, and pick a fight on something before it has been properly set up. For example, before you can even think about these prosecutions everybody is yelling for, there has to be some disclosure, and those steps are being taken right now. The man has
only been in office for three months, and people keep yelling for him to immediately pick fights that can be won only if patience is applied, and folly if not.

At least he sets-up the flaws by trying. None of the other more recent presidents did. This is what I mean by having focus applied to them. By disclosing the torture memos for example, a new decision on just what is and is not "torture" with be established and so on and so forth. Had he chose not to disclose it, McCain would have certainly not, a much different path would have been chosen.

But these kind of steps have to be taken a step at a time. You just can't go barging in there thrwoing it in people's faces like some here seem to want him to do.

[omega minimo]

46. "Patience"? "Throwing it in people's faces"?

You mean patience like waiting for a criminal administration to be held accountable

by a Congress whose speaker took appropriate legal action "off the table"

and by two candidates who campaigned for two years outside the Senate while the crimes went on and the criminals amasses more and more power;

Patience, waiting for the strategerists to prove that gambling was the right thing to do to get a Dem elected while the crimes and the campaign went on and the criminals were not held accountable;

Patience, going along with people who insisted they knew EXACTLY what the future held if there were investigations and impeachment and GUARANTEED that it was a lost cause;

Patience, waiting for the newly elected president to address the illegally amassed Unitrary Executive powers granted him by the previous administration;

Patience, waiting for the newly elected Constitutional scholar to address the illegally abandoned civil liberties of the American people;

Patience, waiting for the documentation of the previous administration's crimes to be revealed, investigated openly, addressed and held accountable;

Patience, waiting for the new administration to reverse, not replicate, the deregulatory scams that have bankrupt the nation..............

Patience like that?







WE are the ones who have had it "THROWN IN OUR FACES."

[Solomon]

64. You apparently don't get it. I'll let you be bigger and

stronger than a professional fighter, and see if you can just rush at him and win, instead taking the proper steps and exercising some discipline to do so.

If you can't get it through your head that there ia a proper time to pick fights, than to just throw everything on the plate at once, then what can I say?

You don't get it. I'm glad that Obama does.

[omega minimo]

67. Oh of course not. A condescending putdown based on nothing makes ALL the difference.

Apparently you know or care nothing for the "proper steps" or you wouldn't dare reply to that post with those words.

Rather than "proper steps" of a legal framework you claim to know about, your attitude suggests "proper locksteps" in deference to a Unitary Executive or a John Woo apologist for signing statements and torture.

:thumbsdown:

[Hutzpa]

21. You people are fishing

you've all ran out of idea and the only option left is to create some kind of division
among Obama's supporters, the naivety is unfounded and you see it daily with different
pieces of online articles.

People are paying more attention now than they have done in the past, where politicians
would say anything to get elected with the help of some paid shill/journalist supporting
their agendas. That time has gone and with it the Fourth Estate.

They refused to asked tuff, hard questions instead they allow most politicians off the
hook and now they want the American people to do their job for them, goes to show how
lazy and overfed they've become. This article depicts that.

[omega minimo]

23. "You people"????!

:rofl: wow that's rich, aside from the racist connotation.............

this sort of accusation, misguided and scattershot, seems just as divisive to me as whatever it is your responding to......

this OP seeks some common ground amongst Obama supporters -- a wide range of us.

[BlooInBloo]

25. How, precisely, is "you people" racist? I haven't heard that one before.

[omega minimo]

29. didn't say it IS, said there are connotations.

[Hutzpa]

31. CONNOTATIONS???

your thinking is fuzzy, but I won't get into offbeat discussion, lets try and keep
our eyes on the prize.

[BlooInBloo]

32. Oh. So it's not racist.

[omega minimo]

35. in certain connotations

[BlooInBloo]

40. It's funny watching you try to have it both ways.

[omega minimo]

45. Give me a bloody break, BlooInBloo. If you have some opinion on the subject, spit it out.

[Hutzpa]

37. I know its not

but my respond was to the OP, the quote "YOU PEOPLE" has to be on the eyes of the
beholder, IMHO. Black folks use it as well as White folks, so does comedians and
such.

[omega minimo]

38. your current upset is in the eyes of the beholder, since the

reply let you off the hook and you're acting like it was accusatory. :shrug: please calm down

the :rofl: was due to you applying "you people" in the wrong direction.........

[Hutzpa]

49. Oh!!! I'm calm alright

I just gets rubbed the wrong way when folks come here and try to stir shit
up, I'm not one to suffer fools, there are folks here who do, not me, the
reason is simple, for soo long folks in this community have complain about
how things have not change and how the Republicans are taking this country
over the cliff and finally we have someone to be proud of whose doing the
right thing and yet there are people amongs us who are trying to undermine
or sabotage his Presidency. Considering that many of us here have burst our
balls for so long....yes articles like Naomi Kleins' et al get under my
skin. They don't understand the suffering people are going through, to them
these folks are lazy and black so it makes no difference instead the would
rather have the system remains the same, while they continue their cynical
writing and earn big bucks.

[omega minimo]

50. that's just bizarre.

[Hutzpa]

56. Case in point n/t

[laugle]

119. I just thought of a way to make

a million bucks; "GRAMMAR CHECK!"....LOL.....that one was unreadable..............

Where do you get the patience? As always, your threads are intelligent and insightful.

[omega minimo]

121. Easy for you to laugle

:spray: (play on words ya know, get i?, a play on your name....... hope ya don mind....... please please purty please don be hatin................. :yoiks: )


I tried to sort that one out and then :crazy:

Well thank you, it's always nice to hear from someone that doesn't think "thought provoking" is an insult. :rofl:

[Hutzpa]

124. Funny that

I could have sworn I saw you throw temper tantrums not too long ago, by starting another
thread just because you did not get your way.

schadenfreude much?

[omega minimo]

127. take that crock and shove it

[Hutzpa]

125. using ad hominen

as an argument defeats the subject, is that the best you can do???

[omega minimo]

126. and you think you're still being taken seriesly

[Hutzpa]

128. You're on your own Susan Boyle

your 2min claim to fame is over....cherrio:hi:

[omega minimo]

129. better than a boil on DU's ass

:puke:

[omega minimo]

34. perhaps you've heard of them

:think:

[Hutzpa]

27. Common ground

the OP is fishing, throwing mud to see what sticks, and my connotation of 'you
people' is referring o the author of the article, whom it seems have come late
to the party.

Unless I'm speaking to the writer of the article.....well? I'm I??? :shrug:

[omega minimo]

30. throwing mindfulness to see what sticks...........

so far what has stuck is constructive conversation. Thank you.

[DevonRex]

39. I regard "fan" as an insult, just like "Obots" and all that other bullshit.

[omega minimo]

42. I won't defend her "lexicon" or that term (which is not the title of her essay)

esp. as those are upsetting to people on DU.

There seemed to be some good points under all that. And there is a bigger world out there than this board using clever insults to flame each other.

"Obamafanland"? She has artistic license. She's a writer. The skins on DU though have been rubbed raw....

[Hutzpa]

53. Folks that where not there in the

beginning would find it hard to understand the 'Obamafanlove' simple explanation is
some people are here to enrich themselves, while others are here to help improve
their community, same goals different needs. The objective have got to be different,
hell, some will even use humor to get their cynical point across, thats just the
way it is.

Artistic license...ha! yeah! where was this license when Bush took the country to War??
eh? where was this licence when Bush was running the economy to the pits?? I wonder??

[SemiCharmedQuark]

77. I agree with you.

[DevonRex]

95. Anyone using that term knows it's an insult no matter where they write it

or what forums they have or have not been on. Naomi can fuck off as far as I'm concerned.

[Solomon]

41. All this stuff is beside the point. I never did understand

what the hell Hutzpah was trying to say in the first place. LOL. The only thing I could discern from that thing is that he thinks we're all full of shit. LOL

[Hutzpa]

51. Correctomundo

}(

[Adelante]

44. I was just reading a response from Al Giordano

Al, tell us what you really think.

There is currently no quicker way for white progressives to further divide themselves from African-American, Hispanic-American, working class and poor Americans – all sectors without which serious and successful progressive movements in the US would be impossible – than to invent derogatory psychobabble terms for us because we do not share Klein’s tendencies to feel somehow demoralized by the country’s first African-American head of state, and demonstrably its most progressive since Franklin Delano Roosevelt.

That such complaint comes after less than 100 days, when the President has just eased the Cuba embargo that was foolishly embraced by Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush I, Clinton and Bush II, is nothing less than pathetic. In the same week, Obama made the classified torture memos public (and as any working journalist or investigator knows, every department of his administration now responds quickly – usually overnight – to our Freedom of Information Act requests for information; a sea change from all previous administrations). The passage of Obama’s economic Stimulus bill marked the single largest expenditure ever on jobs and social programs like unemployment insurance, Medicaid and public education in the history of any country. He has already made the orderly withdrawal of US combat troops from Iraq official policy with a timeline that has most of it done before the 2012 midterm elections. And in three short months, Obama has restored the principle of progressive taxation to the United States.

...

And yet every day I see the President moving the United States closer to my own version of utopia, after a lifetime of watching each of his predecessors pull it farther away. More importantly, for me, as a journalist and an organizer, the Obama presidency has created much more space for people like us to get out there and do this hard work without the repression and marginalization that we have struggled under for decades.

Here’s what the academic left – hopping mad, frustrated and now, like Klein, lashing out at those of us in the working left – doesn’t get: It was Obama – not Klein’s post-Seattle ’99 milieu of “anti-globalization activists” – who opened the doors of the American left for the first time since the Civil Rights movement of the ‘50s and ‘60s to the building of an authentically multi-racial movement. It was Obama – not Klein and her colleagues – that got working class whites struggling alongside working class blacks and Hispanics in the United States, and who turned a new generation onto the art of community organizing that the activist left had abandoned.

When colleagues like Klein so summarily insult Obama supporters and sympathizers, they are driving yet another stake between their white college-educated ghetto and the 94 percent of African-Americans, and the 73 percent of Hispanic Americans, and the 60 percent of the entire American working class, that is pleased, as I am, that this unique historic figure is, for the next four years at least, the President of the United States.

http://www.narconews.com/Issue57/article3498.html

[omega minimo]

52. doesn't this misinformation just reinforce racist attitudes -- inc. of people of color?

Assumes all Obama supporters are black and insulted by "Ivory Tower" writers.

Assumes Klein is all about "academic left" and doesn't understand "working left" and THEN goes on to slam her work on globalization issues.

Assumes that constructive criticism of this president is based on racism.



Who IS this guy?

As for what the "art of community organizing that the activist left had abandoned," I heard a blogger interviewed on the radio pontificating about how clueless white people are about racism in this country, apparently too young to comprehend that HIS academic POV on the matter was clueless about real people and yes, working people who don't fit into his racist view of the US.

This source is inflammatory, racist, "elitist" tripe.

"Revealing a bizarre contempt and college-educated condescension toward a vast multi-racial swathe of progressive supporters and sympathizers of Obama and his movement, Klein seeks to explain us away as dupes. We (I use the first person plural proudly and without hesitation) are, according to Klein, part of a “superfan culture,” that, she says, believes we can “save the world if we all just hope really hard,” and that suffers from the following psychological ailments: “Hopeover… hoper coaster… hope fiend… hopebreak… and hopelash.” "

Thanks for showing us the type of asshole ill logic that contributes to the unecessary divisiveness on DU.

[Jackeens]

54. Al Giordano info from from Wikipedia

Impressive CV.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Giordano

[Hutzpa]

55. You've just been exposed

you see, when I mentioned on my earlier post that Naomi was phishing, your response
was I'm misreading the article. :rofl: unbelievable....here you are defending her
writing by stating that she has a license to write...:wow: imagine that, attempting
to prey on folks intelligence, which is something the Republicans have done in the
past.

[omega minimo]

59. she doesn't "have a license to write"?

are you mad? I mean rilly.


I have been exposed as someone who trusts in the overarching reasonableness of DUers and their ability to read and think for themselves. That is what I was "phishing" for.

:thumbsup:

[Adelante]

72. Well, he's white and I'm white, and both Obama supporters

Why would anyone assume all Obama supporters are black? I certainly wouldn't. I'm not sure what your objection is to the posting of a different viewpoint. I don't see his article as anymore divisive of DU than hers, actually, and I found the contrasting of academic left and organizing left rather interesting.

[omega minimo]

74. "Why would anyone assume all Obama supporters are black?"

That's part of his set up. Black or people of color I ought to have said. He's setting up false disctinctions in order to use them to attack her. It's divisive. It's racist. It's classist. It's a damn shame.


Assumes all Obama supporters are people of color and insulted by "Ivory Tower" writers.

Assumes Klein is all about "academic left" and doesn't understand "working left" and THEN goes on to slam her work on globalization issues.

Assumes that constructive criticism of this president is based on racism.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

78. No. He cites polls that show 94 % approval rating among AAs, 75% among Hispanics and 60% among

working class white americans.

Then he compares that to Klein's article suggesting that Obama's supporters are horribly disappointed with him.

You don't see the disconnect here?

People read that, and the Superfan comments, and say "Well...she's clearly not talking about me."

He doesn't say anything about constructive criticism being based on racism. He is arguing that there is a disconnect between what people see as success in progressive and democratic spheres. And the polling supports that.

[Adelante]

80. Frankly, I think you're cracking up

Calm down. It's two viewpoints. It's not the end of the world.

[bertman]

57. I don't find Klein's comments insulting, nor do I perceive them to be "driving a

stake, blah blah". She's simply stating facts.

The really important fact is that demanding must now supercede hoping. Doesn't sound so unreasonable to me given the number of working-class Americans--like myself-- who see our wonderful new President being too centrist for our taste. That doesn't mean we don't see what he has accomplished, only that we want him to do even more and in a more progressive vein.

Al is the one spouting divisive drivel with his racially-charged accusations against the "academic left". Sounds like it might have come from a Republican talking point to me.

Academic left. Wine and cheese liberals. Ivory tower professors. Trust fund liberals. I've heard those disparaging comments come from right-wingers more times than I can count.

[omega minimo]

61. "Sounds like it might have come from a Republican talking point to me."

"She's simply stating facts.

"The really important fact is that demanding must now supercede hoping. Doesn't sound so unreasonable to me given the number of working-class Americans--like myself-- who see our wonderful new President being too centrist for our taste. That doesn't mean we don't see what he has accomplished, only that we want him to do even more and in a more progressive vein."


Thank you bertman for an excellent post. :toast:

[bertman]

116. Thank you, omega minimo.

[HopeOverFear]

58. This should have its own thread

for real.

[omega minimo]

60. Ya think? It's poisonous inflammatory BS.

[Hutzpa]

63. So

are you suggesting that " A Lexicon of Disappointment" is better articulated because
its written by a well known writer?

[omega minimo]

65. Homey don't play dat

:evilfrown:

[Egnever]

101. Yet the Klein piece is a glorious revelation?

Get a grip

[MadBadger]

120. Because condescendingly referring to people as "Superfans" is just peachy

:sarcasm:

[omega minimo]

122. and using Reich Wing talking points about academic elitists & perpetuating racism/classism to slam

a writer whose body of work refutes the false accusations the blogger makes about her, is just ducky.

Duck shit. It's a slimy hit piece and it reinforces classist/racist/elitist/ Us vs. Them misconceptions WITHIN the party and ON DU.

The blogger also mentions that he is not a Democrat and hadn't voted for 12 years.

What a hero.

He's just feeding his own self righteous ego by stroking others.

:thumbsdown:

[Jackeens]

62. My thoughts too, HopeOverFear - just started one

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x8354143

[omega minimo]

66. One thing is this thread drew out the real (phony) troublemakers trying to drive a wedge in DU

[Jackeens]

68. By posting the Giordano article and leaving it up to people to judge it for themselves?

Do you want his article censored? What's wrong with giving it its own thread and allowing people to read it - anyone who finds it inflammatory BS will state their case. Is that so bad?

[omega minimo]

70. you know what you did

[burning rain]

69. Attributing Obama's election to a superfan culture is itself smelly.

^

[omega minimo]

71. He wasn't BarrackStar Obama? When have we seen anything like him lately?

[burning rain]

75. His primary and general election victories were driven by issues.

Hillary Clinton would have been the nominee had she opposed the Iraq War from the get-go, and she'd have handed McCain a beating in the general, too. I don't think the appreciation of Obama's considerable charisma has fogged the minds of many Democrats or lefties; morbid hero worship is much more a vice of the right.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

81. Regarding the primary, that's silly, though the general had obvious issue distinctions

Never has the nomination come down to two such indistinguishable policy clones.

It was the most issue free primary I've ever seen. Anyone who saw big issue differences was a SuperFan of one or the other or a SuperHater of one or the other.

[omega minimo]

82. well put

:toast:

[burning rain]

88. Obama's early traction depended heavily....

on his having been antiwar from the start. Remember, the peace vote is especially strong in the Iowa Democratic caucuses. It did hurt Hillary Clinton that she needed the large bulk of Americans to turn against the Iraq war, before she did. I was an Obama supporter in the primaries, though I'd have been well-pleased to vote for her at the general election had she been the nominee.

[omega minimo]

87. You know how I thought she meant that? The populist groundswell, momentum from "fans"

[scarletwoman]

76. I appreciate your attempt here to highlight the most useful part of Klein's piece.

As you say, the lexicon is not the main point.

Unfortunately, the lexicon IS off-putting, and one wishes she had not so overindulged in such condescending "cleverness".

I also would like to see the formation of an independent activist movement dedicated to making demands on those in power to truly serve the needs of the People.

Peace,
sw

[omega minimo]

83. Especially since it wasn't that "clever."

"Unfortunately, the lexicon IS off-putting, and one wishes she had not so overindulged in such condescending "cleverness"."

Also, it's unfortunate that the lexicon is off-putting, that we are so easily divided.............

"I also would like to see the formation of an independent activist movement dedicated to making demands on those in power to truly serve the needs of the People."

Aye :pals:

[ProSense]

79. "All is not well in Obamafanland. "

That didn't start out well.

[omega minimo]

84. I understand the touchiness about terms and I also understand a writer's prerogative

being guilty of wordplay meself. :hi:

[cali]

85. sadly, that bit of rhetoric is demonstrably false. You've demonstrated

that you have NO tolerance whatsoever for povs differing from yours.

[omega minimo]

86. Cali, look at the thread now that you're finally in it and give yourself a reality check.

Your reply doesn't relate to the post but the fact is IF I had "no tolerance" I wouldn't waste so much of my time trying to build connections on common ground despite the efforts of those who PREFER the drama and divisiveness.

I welcome different POVs. I don't welcome willful ignorance and random attacks.

Thank you for checking in :toast:

[MagickMuffin]

90. But isn't your opinion about Al Giordano a willfull ignorance and random attack

You didn't seem to respect Al's POV.

Al has been a leader in the world community for a very very long time. He has been reporting about the crimes committed against Latin Americans for decades, mostly because of the drug war.

I respect Al's POV, you should do likewise.

:hi:

[omega minimo]

91. The first line of his piece is a random attack that promotes willful ignorance. Necessary?

[namahage]

93. Which means we should disregard the rest of the points he makes, right?

Whereas when Klein makes a reference to "Obamafanland" and further refers to "Obama-ite(s)" it's simply artistic license, and should not stand in the way of her purported "main point."

This explains, of course, why her article title is "The Lexicon of Disappointment" and not something like "Hoperoots: Where Hope Needs to Come From."

If she really wanted to focus on the need for hope and change to bubble up, rather than trickle down, she could have done so. But then she wouldn't be able to toss around "bons mots" such as "hopefiend," "hoper-coaster," and "hopesick."

I submit that one could do with Giordano's article what you want us to do with Klein's--ignore the inflammatory, while attempting to appreciate the good points made.

[omega minimo]

94. I asked if it was necessary

Don't think so. Your point is well taken re: they each might have done differently and we might choose to read past what is "inflammatory." I tried to frame the key point that might bring us together, with sensitivity to political nicknames here and overlooked even the "Obamafan" in the sentence that might set folks off.

Her "lexicon" may have been more "condescending" than I perceived it but the blogger's claims about who she was dissing were over the top.

I don't see Klein making the broadbrush and divisive statements both that the blogger made AND that he accused Klein of making. When it reflects on us as supporters and reflects bizarre bigoted boundaries within our own, that's offensive.

Her piece was her work. His is a lift and refutation of her work. Which one would DU rather swarm to and discuss? The prepackaged opinion and refutation -- including attacks on Klein's professionalism and misleading reinterpretations -- or Ms. Klein's actual work.

He made very strong accusations. The appear to be unfounded and should at least be questioned. His ease with impugning her, yes, is suspect. The ease of going along with it is sad.

:hi:

"If she really wanted to focus on the need for hope and change to bubble up, rather than trickle down, she could have done so. But then she wouldn't be able to toss around "bons mots" such as "hopefiend," "hoper-coaster," and "hopesick." "

Because we live in such paranoid and divided times and we're fighting over the man that was going to bring us back from that?

[Egnever]

102. The hypocrisy is astounding.

[MagickMuffin]

96. The first sentence

"Naomi Klein is suffering, along with some other sectors of the academic North American left, an existential crisis." :shrug:

I don't see this sentence as being a random attack or willful ignorance, but perhaps I'm JUST willfully ignorant.

Now let's compare Klein's first sentence, "All is not well in Obamafanland." She goes on to use remarks such as these:

Hopeover: Sample sentence: "When I listened to Obama's economic speech my heart soared. But then, when I tried to tell a friend about his plans for the millions of layoffs and foreclosures, I found myself saying nothing at all. I've got a serious hopeover."

Hoper coaster: Sample sentence: "I was so psyched when Obama said he is closing Guantánamo. But now they are fighting like mad to make sure the prisoners in Bagram have no legal rights at all. Stop this hoper coaster--I want to get off!"

Hopesick: Sample sentences: "I was feeling really hopesick about the escalation in Afghanistan, but then I watched a YouTube video of Michelle in her organic garden and it felt like inauguration day all over again. A few hours later, when I heard that the Obama administration was boycotting a major UN racism conference, the hopesickness came back hard. So I watched slideshows of Michelle wearing clothes made by ethnically diverse independent fashion designers, and that sort of helped."

Hope fiend: Sample sentence: "Joe told me he actually believes Obama deliberately brought in Summers so that he would blow the bailout, and then Obama would have the excuse he needs to do what he really wants: nationalize the banks and turn them into credit unions. What a hope fiend!"

Hopebreak: Sample sentence: "I really believed Obama would finally force us to confront the legacy of slavery in this country and start a serious national conversation about race. But now he never seems to mention race, and he's using twisted legal arguments to keep us from even confronting the crimes of the Bush years. Every time I hear him say 'move forward,' I'm hopebroken all over again."

Hopelash: Sample sentence: "At least with Bush everyone knew he was an asshole. Now we've got the same wars, the same lawless prisons, the same Washington corruption, but everyone is cheering like Stepford wives. It's time for a full-on hopelash."

Hoperoots: Sample sentence: "It's time to stop waiting for hope to be handed down, and start pushing it up, from the hoperoots."


I see nothing wrong with being Hopeful. In fact it is a better alternative than despair. And Obama mentioned over and over again throughout his campaign: Sample quotes!

"Hope – Hope in the face of difficulty. Hope in the face of uncertainty. The audacity of hope! In the end, that is God’s greatest gift to us, the bedrock of this nation. A belief in things not seen. A belief that there are better days ahead."

"Change will not come if we wait for some other person or some other time. We are the ones we've been waiting for. We are the change that we seek."

"If you're walking down the right path and you're willing to keep walking, eventually you'll make progress."

"The true test of the American ideal is whether we’re able to recognize our failings and then rise together to meet the challenges of our time. Whether we allow ourselves to be shaped by events and history, or whether we act to shape them."

"America is a land of big dreamers and big hopes. It is this hope that has sustained us through revolution and civil war, depression and world war, a struggle for civil and social rights and the brink of nuclear crisis. And it is because our dreamers dreamed that we have emerged from each challenge more united, more prosperous, and more admired than before."

"It's only when you hitch your wagon to something larger than yourself that you will realize your true potential."

"We have a stake in one another … what binds us together is greater than what drives us apart, and ... if enough people believe in the truth of that proposition and act on it, then we might not solve every problem, but we can get something meaningful done for the people with whom we share this Earth."

"It's not just enough to change the players. We've gotta change the game."



Tomorrow I am attending a meeting with the new state director of Organizing for America in Texas. This meeting is a chance to learn what OFA's mission is. How people can become involved, and feedback of what worked and what didn't work in Texas for Obama.

We are STILL mobilizing. Just as we did during the campaign. Funny thing about the campaign in Texas we didn't receive ANY contributions from Obama, we had people support but no funding. We did it on our own accord. That's how HOPE works and HOW to build a grassroots movement.

:woohoo: FIRED UP AND READY TO GO..... YES WE CAN.... AND YES WE WILL.

[omega minimo]

98. Pardon me

"Revealing a bizarre contempt and college-educated condescension toward a vast multi-racial swathe of progressive supporters and sympathizers of Obama and his movement, Klein seeks to explain us away as dupes. "

[RoyGBiv]

89. Hrrmmm ...

[Political Tiger]

97. Looks like she's been reading DU.

Truth is, the only ones not happy with the president never liked him to begin with, and their only mission is to remind themselves (and us) of that.

And her Reich-wing talking point about Obama " the world if we all just hope really hard" is ironic when one considers the only ones expecting miracles from Barack Obama are those who never could stand him in the first place!

[FrenchieCat]

100. the only ones DEMANDING miracles from Barack Obama

are those who never could stand him in the first place!

Ain't that the truth!

[Butch350]

115. Ain't that da truth squared!

[Tarheel_Dem]

104. I wish I could recommend your post. The truth, if ever I heard it! (nt)

[Starry Messenger]

114. (facepalm)

[LooseWilly]

123. (facepalm) +1

... I suppose it must be rather convenient to think that any who criticize Obama were never fans. :tinfoilhat: Carry on I guess, I'd hate to impinge on the convenience with minor details like the fact that its not true...

And by the by, as a college educated ex taxi driver who participated in an attempt to unionize a taxi company in affiliation with the teamsters... I think I'm in a relatively unique position to see all sides in this linear firing squad.

Klein is, in my opinion, grabbing onto the point that Obama should probably petitioned and hassled regularly to keep him from being distracted by all the ploys of the lobbyists who would have him forget about his base... and she is using that notion to justify some pretty condescendingly insulting barbs at Obama supporters.

Giordino, on the other hand, seems to me to be having the knee-jerk reaction of the auto-didact and, in his rush and fury at being called a resident of Obamafanland... he's grabbed at notions that the far right has been using to demean the left-politicking academics for so long that many academics themselves seem to have internalized it. In his attempts to rhetorically snarl back at the academics though, I think he's painting the not-so-academics with what I regard to be an entirely too broad of brush.
I bet I could find a teamster who has a criticism of Obama. If I tried hard enough, I might even be able to find a teamster of color with a criticism... or an issue that they might feel like they ought to "hold his feet to the fire" over.

My face is getting sore from all the palming of late... all or nothing, friend or foe... I mean, really????

[omega minimo]

99. "Superfan culture" what the F is there to apologize for?

[ChimpersMcSmirkers]

103. Super Fans Activate!

[Tarheel_Dem]

106. ,,,,

:rofl: :rofl::rofl:

[Tarheel_Dem]

105. Nothing sadder than an old school activist trying to retain some semblance...

of relevance in a new world. Naomi has to create the illusion that the president's popularity is waning among progressives to make her point? She sounds like Hannity. I guess rightwing talking points are the new bludgeon for the leftwing activist community?

[omega minimo]

107. " the one spouting divisive drivel with his racially-charged accusations against the "academic" left

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x8353819#8354135

[Tarheel_Dem]

108. Naomi, like yourself, isn't even subtle. She's trying to find relevance...

in a new political climate. Good luck with that. It may get her on a couple of talk shows, which I suspect is the goal, but she lost me with the namecalling. She started with the rightwing talking points, and Giordano just followed her lead. Note the difference in recommends for the competing threads. That says it all.

[omega minimo]

109. Subtle? Subtle is the linked post you still may have overlooked

Subtle?

Subtle would be reading the piece with an open mind, not getting bent out of shape over it, finding a core point that could perhaps be agreed upon and offering it to this forum as a constructive -- not COMPETITVE -- opportunity.

You're right. The tribe has spoken. The pot of scorched beans is protected, the angry torches burn bright and the Big Unknown -- including reasonable DUers who do not post due to the tactics of some here as evidenced in the "competing" thread -- remains dark and unfamiliar and silent.


bertman (1000+ posts) Sat Apr-18-09 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #44
57. I don't find Klein's comments insulting, nor do I perceive them to be "driving a

stake, blah blah". She's simply stating facts.

The really important fact is that demanding must now supercede hoping. Doesn't sound so unreasonable to me given the number of working-class Americans--like myself-- who see our wonderful new President being too centrist for our taste. That doesn't mean we don't see what he has accomplished, only that we want him to do even more and in a more progressive vein.

Al is the one spouting divisive drivel with his racially-charged accusations against the "academic left". Sounds like it might have come from a Republican talking point to me.

Academic left. Wine and cheese liberals. Ivory tower professors. Trust fund liberals. I've heard those disparaging comments come from right-wingers more times than I can count.
---------------------------------

[Tarheel_Dem]

110. LOL. You keeping pointing to the one post in that wreck of a thread

who appears to agree with you. Let's just totally discount any counter opinion. I like the way you think, you accuse those of us who disagree, of having something tantamount to tunnel vision, while ignoring that huge cyclops type appendage right there on your own face.

Who the hell is "bertman", and why should I give a shit what he thinks? I mean, for all I know, it could be Naomi trying to defend her hitpiece. :shrug:

[omega minimo]

111. Its clear the blind spot is on the one who clings to competition rather than cooperation. Too subtle

which is why you don't comprehend; "I like the way you think, you accuse those of us who disagree, of having something tantamount to tunnel vision"


I have acknowledged differing views and my own blind spot for how entrenched the defensive mode is. Now I know.


The link you ignored apparently was quoted b/c Bertman said it better than I.

[cottonseed]

112. It's the Smart Assery that turns people off.

I see her point in the last paragraph, but geez.. Really? she couldn't lay it out without the childish shit. This is the wedge, the smart asses that think they're the only ones rising above the Obama "sainthood". We're all seemingly Democrats, so we're all still voting for lobbyist's and the wealthiest's interests. Enough with the Obamaisms already.

[omega minimo]

117. Well put. And it wasn't funny or very clever. "Enough with the Obamaisms already."

:hi:

[Butch350]

113. Boy she is right - Now I wish I had voted McCain/Palin...

now this lazy Bozo in the WH ain't gonna do diddly squat everybody expected him to.

MY Saviour HAS FORSAKENED ME!

[omega minimo]

118. Thank you for throwaway comment calculated to alienate. Good job!

[cali]

130. go look in the mirror.

YOU post a thread with the phrase "Obama superfans" in the title and you have the temerity to accuse other of being divisive. There is virtually no difference between call someone an Obama superfan and calling them a Obamabot. And that, essentially, is why this article by Klein is getting so much backlash.

Cognitive dissonance, much, omega?

[omega minimo]

131. I DID NOT "post a thread with the phrase "Obama superfans" in the title."

Now you are just lying. One look at the actual OP title will prove that.

"YOU post a thread with the phrase "Obama superfans" in the title." Read the title. That accusation.is a baldfaced lie. The notion that I would carefully craft an OP focused on a central concept that might cut through the perceived insult of the "lexicon," and then intentionally use a perceived insult on purpose, is totally absurd.

With all DU respect, I have already addressed this several times in this thread and the other one, that was vampired off of this thread to cause trouble, where this one hoped for common cause. No one can possibly be aware of all the potentially objectionable words in the English language.Those self righteous attackers who expect that sort of slavish enabling -- beyond what someone as careful as I was capable of -- may need to spend a bit more time out of the pool.

I have explained that "If the superfan culture that brought Obama to power...." suggests to me (yes even now after all the attacks) a reflection of a grassroots groundswell of individuals that brought him to power. As someone who has avoided the flame fests and never seen the term before, an objective view would be there is nothing derogatory about commenting that Obama had a lot of fans.

The intent of the OP was constructive, the construction was in good faith that it would be viewed objectively (cue :rofl: ) Silly me.

The surprise was that "If the superfan culture" would set heads spinning here, which I very carefully avoided in the OP. Finding common cause was the whole point of the OP, which I don't expect you to acknowledge or accept.

That's the cognitive dissonance here, Cali. The insistence -- not just willingness but absolute lockstep demands -- that everyone hate all the same buzzwords and comments in just the same way in prepackaged, predigested, toxic doses of kneejerk emotion.

It doesn't matter who might speak up unawares of every single possible variety of all the "wrong" things to say.

It doesn't matter how many are unfamiliar with buzzwords because they stay out of the flamefests that might inform them.

It doesn't matter that words like "superfan culture" are open to interpretation by open minded folk in open society.

It doesn't even matter that the OP quoted "superfan culture" and even here and now you are projecting "Obama superfans."

It doesn't matter the intention or good will or damn foolishness of someone waving an olive branch in front of a bloodthirsty crowd already seeing red (permanently apparently) like a bull in the ring.

Congratulations :toast: The cognitive gene pool will remain diminished and all the victimized self righteousness will remain intact.


EDIT: maybe you're not lying about the OP title. Maybe the projections (and group encouragement) are so powerful, you really believe that or actually see the words that offend you, rather than the words that are written.

[omega minimo]

132. "The intent of the OP was constructive,... in good faith that it would be viewed contructrively"

Well now you know how HOPEless that was but thank you for trying, OM.

You're welcome.