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NEWSWEEK: Sources say Holder "seriously considering" outside counsel to investigate torture

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HopeOverFear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-19-09 11:34 PM
Original message
NEWSWEEK: Sources say Holder "seriously considering" outside counsel to investigate torture
Ohpleaseohpleaseohplease be true...

The real world is never as neat as the imagined one. Political campaigns, like futuristic parables, are a kind of make believe. Running for president, Barack Obama was able to denounce the torture tactics the Bush administration used and to declare, "If crimes have been committed, they should be investigated." But after his election, Obama said he wanted his administration to look forward, not backward. If only it were so simple. Last week Obama—over the CIA's bitter opposition—permitted the release of Justice Department documents spelling out in great detail the enhanced interrogation techniques used by the CIA and permitted by Justice Department lawyers. That decision alone was one of the hardest the new president has had to face, say his aides.

But the Obama administration is not off the hook. Though administration officials declared that CIA interrogators who followed Justice's legal guidance on torture would not be prosecuted, that does not mean the inquiries are over. Senior Justice Department lawyers and other advisers, who declined to be identified discussing a sensitive subject, say Attorney General Eric Holder Jr. is seriously considering appointing an outside counsel to investigate whether CIA interrogators exceeded legal boundaries—and whether Bush administration officials broke the law by giving the CIA permission to torture in the first place. Even if Holder takes a pass, Sen. Patrick Leahy, chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, is still pushing for a "truth commission." In a democracy, the wheels of justice grind on—and the president, for good reason under the rule of law, does not have the power to stop them.

...

After several intense cabinet meetings, Obama appeared to back down and go along with a Panetta proposal to heavily "redact"—black out—all references to specific interrogation techniques, say the administration sources. But this would make the release meaningless, argued others, and Obama began to swing back again. Panetta had one ally, John Brennan, a former agency official who is now Obama's chief counterterrorism adviser. But Adm. Dennis Blair, the national intelligence director, backed a more complete release, and so did Secretary of Defense Robert Gates, a Bush holdover (and former CIA director). In the end, Obama approved the disclosure of the documents, along with a strongly worded statement that agency professionals "who acted reasonably and relied upon legal advice from the Department of Justice" will be held blameless.

"As a practical matter, it's over—nobody is going to get prosecuted," says Robert Bennett, the Washington lawyer whose clients include Jose Rodriguez, the former chief of the CIA's clandestine service, who has been under investigation for his November 2005 decision to destroy 92 videotapes showing the interrogation of Abu Zubaydah. But what if evidence emerges that CIA officials (or contractors, who actually conducted most of the interrogations)went beyond the boundaries that the Justice Department erected? The CIA has consistently denied wrongdoing, but an intriguing footnote to one of the memos says that an internal CIA investigation found that there might have been "unnecessary use of enhanced techniques" against one Qaeda suspect. The memos released last week would be comical if they weren't so tragic about the level of legal hairsplitting. In the case of Abu Zubaydah, the Justice Department lawyer instructed that as long as the CIA did not tell him anything about the insect, and the insect was non-stinging, "the insect's placement in the box would not constitute a threat of severe physical pain or suffering to a reasonable person in his position." Just how a lawyer sitting in his office in Washington, D.C., would know what a "reasonable person in his position" might think is unclear.
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Egnever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-19-09 11:50 PM
Response to Original message
1. Interesting article thanks for posting it
I find it extremely interesting that Robert gates was on of the ones pushing hardest to release the memos un redacted.
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-19-09 11:54 PM
Response to Original message
2. umm, can we get this rolling in this Obama term?
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Egnever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-19-09 11:57 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Yea! I hear the fat lady singing already on this term!
:eyes:
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Teaser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #2
8. Yeah, those 4 years went by fast, didn't they?
another one for the ignore list.
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Duende azul Donating Member (608 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #8
14. As you say. These terms go fast. Yesterday they were advocating not to stir the pot because of 2010.
And try to figure why past midterms we will be asked not to cause trouble because we will practically be in general election mode by then?

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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 12:01 AM
Response to Original message
4. For God's sake don't pick Patrick "I've got sand in my eyes" Fitzgerald.
He'll nail one guy for cruelty to animals and let the rest walk.
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HopeOverFear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 12:51 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. lol
I don't know why but that tickled me. :)
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 07:58 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Seriously, though, he was such a candy ass in that whole Plame thing.
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yodermon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #6
28. well, an acquittal (of say rove or cheney) would have been worse.
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. False premise. A conviction of Libby should have meant a deal for him to roll.
If Patrick Fitzgerald had not been such a cowardly lion, he would have indicted Rove and others, then pitted them against each other. But he was a marshmellow.
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yodermon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #31
36. Incomplete premise.
Fitz knew any indictments/convictions he made higher up the chain would have been subject to pardons/commutations. Libby's sentence was commuted (yeah, all Fitz's fault there :eyes: ) so the pressure that normally would have been brought to bear on Cheney et. al. via Scooter's jail time was removed.

Unlimited pardon power really does tie the hands of prosecutors because it throws a wrench into the normal flow of justice.
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Duende azul Donating Member (608 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #4
11. Hey, you´re the first one to make me laugh in this whole mess.
Thanks.
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 06:37 AM
Response to Reply #11
38. You're welcome. You know he'd do it.
And then he would put on that sad puppy dog face and tell us he couldn't help it, someone threw sand in his widdle eyes!
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #4
29. Ol'
Fitzmas? :crazy:
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 06:35 AM
Response to Reply #29
37. Yes, where are all the clamoring fans who worshipped that screw up?
Edited on Wed Apr-22-09 06:37 AM by TexasObserver
THE most overrated US attorney in the history of the country.
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denem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 09:12 AM
Response to Original message
7. SoD Gates (former CIA director) backed the complete release.
That would make him the one CIA Dir exception.
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Inuca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #7
27. Gates is unusual
it must not have been an easy decision for him to continue under Obama and the fact tha he did and that whether he agrees or not with the various decisions and policies he definitely acts as a team player, well.. I think it's quite admirable.
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Jennicut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. Gates is turning out to maybe not be a bad egg.
I am starting to like him...especially what he wants to do with the overhaul of the military budget.
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 09:27 AM
Response to Original message
9. ACLU - Statute of Limitations - just over a year left...
http://www.aclu.org/safefree/torture/39060prs20090318.html

"...There is Only a Little More than a Year Left in the Statute of Limitations Period for Certain Alleged Crimes of Torture:

...The ICRC report and the Justice Department Inspector General report on the FBI's role in interrogations both provide substantial details on the torture and abuse of Abu Zubaydah in the spring and summer of 2002, prior to the issuance of the August 1, 2002 OLC opinions. The eight-year statute of limitation period for Anti-Torture Act charges related to crimes allegedly committed in spring 2002 will expire in spring 2010. As a result, a prosecutor has only a little more than a year from today to bring charges for some important and well-documented alleged torture or abuse incidents..."




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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 09:44 AM
Response to Original message
10. But, but, but ... DU's Glenn Beck left already decided this will never happen!!!
But if they are going to announce a special prosecutor, he'll be a DLC scumbag stooge!

But if they announce a special prosecutor and he has impeccable credentials as politically independent, then he'll be getting paid off by fat cats under the table and will never bring a case!

But if they announce a special prosecutor and he has impeccable credentials as politically independent, and he brings a case, Obama will never let it succeed!

But if they announce a special prosecutor and he has impeccable credentials as politically independent, and he brings a case, and gets a conviction, then it was only a token prosecution!

rinse repeat. you get the idea.
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brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #10
24. You're saying that only those "on the left" are outraged about this?
Edited on Mon Apr-20-09 01:11 PM by brentspeak
Upholding the Constitution is now a thing of the "left"?

Jefferson, Washington, Adams, Madison, etc: left-wing wackos! :eyes:
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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. No not the left -- the reality disconnected Glenn Beck left
Supposedly he would never appoint an independent counsel because, well, you know.

When he does, the reality disconnected Glenn Beck left will have another reason to be outraged.
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Kurt_and_Hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 11:17 AM
Response to Original message
12. Excellent News! If true then good for him, and the administration
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Soylent Brice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 11:25 AM
Response to Original message
13. good.
K&R
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chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 11:39 AM
Response to Original message
15. K & R n/t
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Peace_Sells Donating Member (130 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 11:48 AM
Response to Original message
16. Do It.
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Perky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 11:50 AM
Response to Original message
17. Excellent.... this is the only credible approach De-politicize it.
And the Obam regime NEVER EVER COMMENTS ON IT!

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HopeOverFear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. Obam regime?
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SpartanDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
18. kick
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Geek_Girl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 01:04 PM
Response to Original message
19. Kick!
Rope a dope
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Jennicut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
20. Good news
however I am sure some will not be happy that it could be an independent prosecutor.
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ErinBerin84 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 01:10 PM
Response to Original message
22. I am really hopeful for this
I'm discouraged by the constant "we need to look forward" language, and hopefully pushback against it will help this become a reality.
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vaberella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 01:10 PM
Response to Original message
23. Who cares...Obama is turning the left away and his poll numbers will drop.
Or so I last heard on this site because of his decisions on "torture." What decisions they were that say there won't be some sort of independent council or prosecution of higher ups...no where. But let's not forget he's not doing what he promised, he's a liar and will be banished from being a progressive.


:sarcasm:
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bigjohn16 Donating Member (747 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 03:02 PM
Response to Original message
26. Kick
This is great news.
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HopeOverFear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 09:32 PM
Response to Original message
32. kick
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 10:36 PM
Response to Original message
33. KnR. Honest to gods there is so much hope going around beneath the radar.
Edited on Mon Apr-20-09 10:37 PM by Hekate
:fistbump:

edited for crappy typing
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SLSmith Donating Member (225 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 01:09 AM
Response to Original message
34. Vid. Isikoff on Maddow 4/20 - he talks about this! Check & Balances May NOT Be Dead!
ConvictNOW! I hope that Holder is truly a man of principle & will uphold the Constitution! If that is true, this will be the first of many Special Prosecutors Holder will appoint!

Vid of Isikoff on RM tonight: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPOi7kJsavs
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 01:12 AM
Response to Original message
35. Its called a SPECIAL PROSECUTER.....they got Ftritz...sic him on the case...dat be a hoot
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