Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Is Obama really serious about "upholding our values"?

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 08:09 PM
Original message
Is Obama really serious about "upholding our values"?
Monday, April 20, 2009

Is Obama really serious about "upholding our values"?

Sandy Levinson

The New York Times reports that President Obama (still one of the sweetest phrases imaginable) told the CIA today

What makes the United States special and what makes you special is precisely the fact that we are willing to uphold our values and our ideals even when it’s hard, not just when it’s easy, even when we are afraid and under threat, not just when its expedient to do so....

I dearly hope he means it, but I must say I'm not optimistic. "Upholding our values" means that people are truly held accountable, and the Administration seems extraordinarily reluctant to do that. As it happens, I am ambivalent about criminal prosecution, as much as I would love to soo a number of high-level Bushies go to prison. But I have come to the conclusion that the better response would be a blanket amnesty followed by the setting up of a high-powered "truth commission," with full-scale subpoena power, that would force everyone to testify, under oath, about the gestation of the policy, its implementation, and, very importantly, the known consequences.

Mark Danner has an extraordinarily important article in the current New York Review of Books on the extent to which the Cheyneyites are spreading the argument that "torture is effective," and he argues, if I read him correctly, that it is absolutely essential not only to denounce torture, but, even more importantly, to confront the argument head-on. On what occasions was torture "effective"? What is the evidence? Don't allow them to hide behind "it's all classified." A trustworthy "truth commission," led by Democrats, Republicans, and independents of genuine stature, should be able to get access to any and all data, whatever its classification, and tell the American people (and the world) how often torture "works," as against the frequency with which it is simply a disaster on any and all criteria. Otherwise, the Cheyneyites will simply renew their arguments for more extensive torture after the (more-or-less inevitable) next attack, and simply saying that torture is vicious and immoral will cut relatively little ice if we haven't taken pains to confront the argument about "effectiveness." And if the Cheyneyites are right--i.e., if torture really did save lots of lives, etc.--then perhaps some of the rest of us will have to rethink some of our own positions. But the point is that Obama cannot be allowed to think that disclosure of the memos and the wrecked reputations (and nothing more, perhaps) of John Yoo, Jay Bybee, Steven Bradbury, etc., constitute anything close to seriously "upholding our values" and engaging in the kind of leadership we need on this issue.






Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
NYC_SKP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 08:46 PM
Response to Original message
1. I'm sure Sandy Levinson means well in this article.
Actually, no, I'm not that sure, but I'm willing to give him or her the benefit of the doubt.

It seems that she/he would prefer to see a sledge hammer approach to this matter.

Sadly for him/her, that is not how this will play out.

A scalpel can be just as deadly, and far more elegant.

NYC_SKP
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Just say no to
blanket amnesty. There should be a full investigation, no opportunity for them to waste our time sugar coating war crimes.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NYC_SKP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Me, too.
I rather President Obama had taken a "no comment" position on this one, but tend to trust his judgment.

His stated position alone doesn't protect anyone from the various forms of investigation and prosecution that may occur, does it?

:shrug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. He made his opinion known, but
I don't think that his statement on protecting the CIA interogators is going to protect anyone found to have committed a crime.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HopeOverFear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. I agree
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Avalux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 09:09 PM
Response to Original message
5. YAWN. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Save your breathe. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Avalux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. OK. Just tired of all the broken records who want instant gratification. n/t
Edited on Mon Apr-20-09 09:14 PM by Avalux
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Tue Apr 23rd 2024, 04:16 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC