BREAKING NEWS FROM MSNBC: Obama will leave prosecutions up to AG Holder

[HopeOverFear]

The Political Carnival


Just now on MSNBC, President Obama stated that he'd leave prosecutions of those who ordered torture up to the Attorney General. He doesn't want to politicize the matter, but does want to "learn lessons as we move forward.".. "We need to uphold our ideals even when they're hard."

P.S.: HALLELUIAH!!!!!

[brentspeak]

1. So Obama's passing the buck

[LakeSamish706]

3. He's not really passing the buck, cause it should have been Holder's job in the first place. n/t

[SKKY]

90. Yea. What he said.

[enki23]

4. Hardly. This is what the justice dept was designed to do. It's not *supposed* to be politicized.

.

[Beetwasher]

5. Stupidest Reply Ever

Obama has no authority to PERSONALLY prosecute. That's what DOJ does. :eyes:

[LakeSamish706]

9. Or was supposed to do before Bush F***ed it up big time. n/t

[cliffordu]

7. Right.

:sarcasm:

[ClarkUSA]

11. Your trademark intellectual dishonesty is on full display today... the "tools" were right, eh?

[brentspeak]

19. Well explained, well detailed rebuttal

What the hell are you talking about, again?

[Teaser]

20. so I guess ClarkUSA actually reads your posts

which is, apparently, more than you do.

[Teaser]

12. you don't know dick, do you?

The president cannot and should not tell the AG who to prosecute.

[Hippo_Tron]

78. He can, but indeed as a general rule he should not

The Attorney General serves at the pleasure of the President. But the Justice Department's prosecutions should, as a general rule, remain free from white house influence. If the Attorney General is truly being negligent then the White House does need to step in, and most likely in that case the President would just fire the AG.

[Name removed]

13. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AtomicKitten]

15. Yes, he's passing it to AG Holder for proper prosecution.

Got a problem with that? :shrug:

[dolo amber]

23. The President is having the AG to do his job instead of doing it for him??

WHAT A COLLOSAL DOUCHEROCKET OMG OBAMA = EPIC FAIL WE ARE ALL DOOOOOOOOOMED!!

MUSLIM, ALSO!!

[AtomicKitten]

24. doooomed!

[ClarkUSA]

25. rofl!

That .gif is too funny. :rofl:

[phleshdef]

18. Wow, how desperate you are to save face after having lost a precious anti-Obama talking point.

I'm sure you aren't stupid. You KNOW the Justice Department should be the one handling it in the first place. I'm sure you will find other things to bitch and moan about though.

[brentspeak]

30. Since the Justice Dept. is always supposed to be handling this

why are people celebrating the fact that Obama is merely pointing out the obvious???
................................................................................................

"I think the damage that would be caused by a trade war is greater than the damage that would be caused by letting Mexican truckers drive on our roads.". Occam Bandage, http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8282844&mesg_id=8282850">endorsing a plan to allow Mexican trucks into the U.S. which would subsequently annihilate a good chunk of American trucking and dock jobs.

[phleshdef]

33. People are celebrating the fact that posters like you have egg on their face right now.

Its petty but it feels so good.

[brentspeak]

34. You can't answer the question, can you?

Apparently, it's you who doesn't know what he's talking about.
........................................................................
"I think the damage that would be caused by a trade war is greater than the damage that would be caused by letting Mexican truckers drive on our roads.". Occam Bandage, http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8282844&mesg_id=8282850">endorsing a plan to allow Mexican trucks into the U.S. which would subsequently annihilate a good chunk of American trucking and dock jobs.

[phleshdef]

39. Ooooh, you underlined the word "you", suddenly your otherwise BS lack of a point is substantial.

Face facts. You and others on here have jumped the shark numerous times over stuff like this issue and many others. And every single time, you have been made a fool of from your knee jerk reaction Obama bashing.

Maybe next time you should wait awhile and see where the administration is really going with something before you start bashing them.

Take some advice from President Obama and know what you are talking about before you speak.

[cali]

36. calling another poster out like that? tut, tut, brent.

hope you're having fun with this thread

[Occam Bandage]

45. What does your disagreement with my impression of the likely impact

of continuing a trial program allowing limited Mexican cross-border trucking have to do with anything in this thread, or more specifically, anything to do with the poster to whom you were replying? It's very strange.

[namahage]

67. Not much.

He just doesn't like "fawning" threads.

[RichGirl]

52. I never for a second doubted Obama.

That is the single thing that makes him a huge change from Bush, he can be TRUSTED.

The celebration has to do with the media and people like you going nuts because they judge him before they even knew what was going on. I celebrate our wonderful president EVERY DAY. And so enjoy that it is absolutely making people like you crazy that he is so loved and admired.

[Hekate]

80. Golly, why would we celebrate another milestone for The End of Bush? That's a headscratcher, that is

After Bush did his best to annihilate any Constitutional barriers between the Executive and the Other Two, it's damn refreshing, nay encouraging, yea even heartwarming -- to see someone actually start to put matters to rights. :party: :party: :party:

But that's just us fools, partying on. :party:

Hekate

[quickesst]

86. Ha ha....

"Since the Justice Dept. is always supposed to be handling this

why are people celebrating the fact that Obama is merely pointing out the obvious???

That's a funny damn thing to say after the masses went ape-shit hysterical over "the obvious." As I pointed out in another similar thread, the reasoning for "critics" to stick to their guns will be varied, interesting, and at times entertaining. You seem to be falling into category #3. Thanks.
quickesst

[DevonRex]

21. Just go the fuck back to whatever site you came from. Naderites R Us maybe?

[cali]

22. gad. such ignorance by a long time poster is unfortunate.

[Baltoman991]

27. Perhaps you're

just a bit confused.

See, the buck passer is no longer in office. The prosecution should be left up to the DoJ, not the President.

See, we have a President now who knows how to do the right thing. Not his job to prosecute. Glad I could help.

[vaberella]

55. +1. Excellent post. n/t

[gkhouston]

31. Yeah, I was expecting Obama to personally plead every case in front of Judge Judy

with the new dog as co-counsel. :eyes:

[Demi_Babe]

35. do you REALLY believe that?

[zulchzulu]

46. Does your coloring book have a page called "Justice Department"?

Use your crayons to color all the columns. Stay on the lines. Try not to use the gold or silver crayons... too royal.

And don't eat the crayons.

If you think you will, let your mommy know.

[RichGirl]

54. He won't eat the crayons. He's stuffed from eating the paste.

[chill_wind]

48. Oy!

"You alone are charged with making the determination of whether and how to investigate crimes that have occurred."

- ACLU letter to AG


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8359939&mesg_id=8360618

[dionysus]

53. another swing and a miss...

[Danger Mouse]

76. No, he's doing his job.

It's Holder's job to prosecute, not Obama's. But don't let that stop you from spewing the usual filth.

[Hekate]

77. Write 100 times: There are 3 branches of federal government.

:eyes:

[ehrnst]

87. The "buck" is supposed to go to the AG....that's Holder's job.

And after 8 years of the executive branch strongarming the Judicial Branch, you should be relieved to see that the rightful duties of the Judicial Branch are being honored...

[whopis01]

88. What do you expect? It is how he operates. Just like

the way he is passing the buck on foreign relations to Hillary Clinton and passing the buck on veteran's affairs to Shinseki. Not to mention what he has done making Napolitano have to pick up the work on homeland security side of things.

[closeupready]

2. Okay.

n/t

[Merlot]

6. That is exactly how I predicted it would happen.

Obama would not endorse prosecutions, and would not prevent others from doing investigations & prosecutions.

Keeps him above it all, no one can claim he's being vengeful or political.

[monmouth]

8. This is how the script was written weeks ago. Each person has their

part and the pieces start to fall in place. Cheeney knows this also, that's why he's on the TV all the time. Has anyone caught Fox on this? Am I up to watching them????..LOL.

[Egnever]

10. As if there were any other option

This is great news and doesnt suprise me a bit, but the idea that obama was going to prosecute anyone is pretty silly in the first place. Or have we come to expect the president to direct the DOJ on who and who not to prosecute? So much damage from the last 8 years.

[Occam Bandage]

14. Glad to hear. nt

[Arkana]

16. Good work, Mr. President.

It's both the right thing to do and beneficial politically.

[vaberella]

17. I guess this worked out HOF....we find out Rahm spoke out of turn. Hi-Five!! n/t

[Hutzpa]

26. .

B-)



:thumbsup:

[mzmolly]

28. IIRC Holder was pro-prosecution prior to

his nomination?

[vaberella]

47. I think he said during his nomination meeting or whatever that is...

that he would not excuse the right to prosecute if there was enough information gathered and evidence gathered under the law.

[gkhouston]

29. Maybe somebody figured out that justice and vengeance aren't the same thing

and that "No one is above the law" doesn't have to change to "looking forward" as soon as powerful people are implicated in wrongdoing.

[Hellataz]

32. I hope this quiets the lefts outrage over this torture mess

I don't know why most of us couldn't see that this was Obama's plan all along. He was never going to let it go, but he also didn't want to be directly tied to it. He knew it wasn't his place to go after these people, especially when he's constantly battling the GOP in every action and policy he makes. He's playing a bit of politics here trying to appease the CIA and the Republicans by showing them that his main focus is on repairing our country not spending his valuable time going after partisan revenge. But behind close doors he's telling Holder to go after them with everything he has. This way, at the end of the day, the gop can't accuse him of going on some sort of "republican witch hunt" and neglecting the countries more important business when it comes to reelection, but Obama can still come out and say under HIS administration and HIS attorney general they went after the bad guys, but they did it by Obama delegating the tasks to those he trusts freeing him up to address the countries other concerns. It's political strategy at it's finest.

[rug]

37. Fuller story from msnbc.com

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30325495/

[chill_wind]

63. Thnx for fuller link-- and there's a poll there within, too.

Should Bush administration officials who devised harsh interrogation tactics and provided legal cover for them be prosecuted?

http://www.newsvine.com/_question/2009/04/21/2712687-should-bush-administration-officials-who-devised-harsh-interrogation-tactics-and-provided-legal-cover-for-them-be-prosecuted

[americanstranger]

38. He just sprung the mother of all traps.

And he's got both Harman and Cheney calling for release of sensitive documents.

Note to Holder: Call Cheney's (and Harman's) bluff and go for a document dump. then send a note of thanks to Darth for shooting his mouth off. By the time the public gets a load of what BushCo was doing, they'll be demanding prosecutions.

Dead fuckin' brilliant.

- AS

[Beetwasher]

42. Oooohh!!! GOOD FUCKING POINT!!!

I didn't think of that!!! Cheney is losing it and calling for the release of secret documents!!

How about demanding Cheney open up his man sized safe???

:thumbsup:

[vaberella]

56. Hi-Five. I'm like the only lame-o who still does that. n/t

[myrna minx]

73. Excellent point and brilliant move. n/t

[wryter2000]

40. It's looking good

If this means what I think it does, it means he's played it spot-on perfectly. Torture will be investigated. People will be tried -- and I mean the people who ordered it -- and Obama comes out looking magnanimous and "bipartisan." Going to the CIA and getting that reception was a master stroke.

[chill_wind]

41. Well done, and tis well 'twere done quickly.

Very well done, President Obama.

:applause:

[sammythecat]

43. This is encouraging news

The issue is not dead. There is still hope.

[zulchzulu]

44. Presidents use their Justice Department as well as Congress to do investigations

I think it's on page 3 of your Civics For Dummies book.

Anyone thinking that Obama is "passing the buck" or avoiding the issue is uninformed. Hopefully they figure it out. If not, and they continue to bash Obama for their lack or depth of knowledge, then perhaps they aren't intelligent enough to grasp simple concepts.

[NorthCarolina]

49. Looks like the Move-On Petition might have played a hand in this *change of heart* n/t

[vaberella]

58. Who's change of heart?! Obama has NEVER changed his tune.

Rahm and Gibbs made their statements which were not what the President O had said. End of story. So no...this was all in O's court and he stuck to his guns. Don't get me wrong I appreciate left organizations but they didn't change Obama's position since his position has remained the same.

[Two Americas]

62. I hope he does

Do you really want an executive who does not change tactics and approaches, who is not responsive to pressure from us?

I hope that "left organizations" - which you "appreciate" - can influence and affect the president's actions. Don't you? That is how a healthy functioning representative democracy works.


...

[vaberella]

71. Don't twist my words.

In the case the poster of me posted, they said that O was the one to admit they were wrong. But he was never wrong to begin with and never changed his tune in this regard. O has said in many occasions when he was wrong and tried to make amends, apologize or explain his point. In this case the President NEVER changed his tune to begin with he was just reiterating something he's already said and the poster was intentionally dismissing this fact.

[Two Americas]

83. ok

So if, as you say, he has had a change of heart in the past, what is wrong with thinking he may have had one this time as well?

Not sure what your problem with this is. I am trying to untwist your words, not twist them.

...

[K Gardner]

64. Surely to GOD you don't believe that. Obama's been 5 steps ahead in his thinking on this all along,

laying groundwork for his final "play". We still haven't seen it, only the preview, and the traps are being sprung right and left.

MoveOn and the screaming crowd on DU has had nothing to do with it. He's simply brilliant.

[americanstranger]

66. I just posted the same thing downthread.

Hello, Ms. K. It's been a while.

It's great to have a really, really, really smart president, isn't it?

- As

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

50. Very hopeful news. K&R

[OwnedByFerrets]

51. I am very glad that the voices in the desert have been heard

I hope this leads where it logically should.

[chill_wind]

57. Why doesn't this have a jillion more recs?

kicking.

[vaberella]

59. The ones anti O had a louder crew and the Repubs to instigate the fires. n/t

[ronnykmarshall]

It's, it's, IT'S A TRAP!!!!

Holder is a lap dog for KKKarl!! Remember what happened with Ted Stevens? Huh? See? Remember?

Obama is just another prawn of the KKKarl and the Bush family crime whatever!!!

WE'RE DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMEDDDDD!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just in case someone buys that crap ....... :sarcasm:

Opps! Looking at the first reply, I see someone has.

[yodermon]

75. admiral akbar says:

[ronnykmarshall]

60. It's, it's, IT'S A TRAP!!!!

Holder is a lap dog for KKKarl!! Remember what happened with Ted Stevens? Huh? See? Remember?

Obama is just another prawn of the KKKarl and the Bush family crime whatever!!!

WE'RE DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMEDDDDD!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just in case someone buys that crap ....... :sarcasm:

Opps! Looking at the first reply, I see someone has.

[tekisui]

61. KNR!!! This is what we have been demanding! If Obama was standing in

the way for political reasons, he isn't anymore.

GO GET THEM HOLDER!!!

[americanstranger]

65. Not standing in the way.

Just waiting for the right time to give the green light.

Anyone who watched O during the campaign knows this is how he rolls:

1. Let an issue take hold in the public consciousness.
2. Let both friend and foe weigh in and get them on the record.
3. Allow public curiosity to be piqued.
4. Make the right move.

Nothing new. This is how Obama operates.

- AS

[tekisui]

69. You are correct.

100%.

[vaberella]

72. +1. Excellent post. n/t

[americanstranger]

74. Thank you!

You'd think that people had seen this play out enough times during the campaign to realize that this is how it's done by O and his team.

The man moves with due deliberation. It's a good trait to have when you're trying to right as many wrongs as he's trying to.

A lot of people want him to do everything at once, but he knows how important these things are and probably realizes he's only going to get one shot to do these things right.

- AS

[GeorgeGist]

68. Then he should have STFU ...

instead of encouraging disregard for justice.

[dionysus]

70. aw, clearly this good news upsets you.

banky will make it all better;

[Baltoman991]

81. A political

newbie eh? That's not how it's done. Obama played this as cool as he plays everything else.

While you and the rest were ranting "he has to prosecute", he sat back smiling knowing that it isn't his job to prosecute and that the man responsible for prosecuting would do the right thing.

STFU? Very respectful talk for a man who has done so much in such a short amount of time.

[HopeOverFear]

89. Obama never encouraged disregard for justice.

he discouraged the politicization of the investigation

[Iwillnevergiveup]

79. HopeOverFear

what a perfect signature to break this most welcome news!

K&R

:kick:

[northernlights]

82. FANTASTIC!!!!

This is what I'd hoped for when he first said that he'd be focussed on moving forward. That it was up to Holder o prosecute, while Obama's focussed on leading the country forward.

To me, that means we've got our marching orders. Holder needs to understand priorities. Hint. Going after potheads is a reverse priority. And war crimes (including violating international law, geneva conventions, mass murder and torture) are priority #1.

[Danger Mouse]

84. Kick and rec this sexy stuff!

[Political Heretic]

85. Why is this good?

It's a simple question that I'd like answered.