My question is sincere re: Birth Certificate

[seaker]

Please don't yell at me. I am sure this has been explained, but I missed the memo.:blush:

The electrician just left but before he departed felt compelled to share he was not a fan of our President because he had not been 'vetted' and had not done everything he promised. I dealt with the promise part but when I expressed dismay re: the vetting. I asked what he felt was not known, the man replied about concerns with an original birth certificate, that his citizenship had been renounced to attend school in Indonesia. I smiled and said I would look it up. Sure enough I found the birth certificate story with an article explaining Hawaii didn't release the originals due to privacy laws. Personally, I don't see that it matters. Mine is a copy. Does that mean I am not a citizen?
I did find a video with Alan Keyes in which the man sounded like a nut-job on the topic.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqkMfToY9Pk
I haven't found info on the school item either.
Can someone help me find the information so I may help educate future electricians?

Thank you:loveya:

[Arkana]

1. It's out there. It's been out there since the campaign.

They don't give a shit about the birth certificate--they hate him because his skin isn't lily-white.

[tekisui]

2. It is baseless bullshit.

If the electrician believes it, write him off. Nothing will change his opinion, now.

[Cha]

7. I most certainly would get a new electrician..

because I don't give any of my money to drooling idiots who let themselves get brainwashed..but that's just me.

[seaker]

12. Bad timing on my part

I paid him before our conversation...:eyes:

[Cha]

44. Next

time is what I'm talkin about:)

[seaker]

45. Ok.

I have learned many lessons. Thanks.:toast:

[seaker]

14. You are right, yet..

Hope springs eternal. :hi:

[Thrill]

3. Whats the point? They won't believe you no matter what you show them

[Mz Pip]

4. Unfounded speculation isn't proof of anything

If the State of Hawaii says that Obama is a citizen then Obama is a citizen. The burden of proof lies with the plaintiff and several of these cases have already been litigated an kicked out of court.

If Obama was born in Kenya, then let someone prove it. They can't because it's crap.

[DearAbby]

5. My Response to those

still clinging to the Birth certificate canard..."you mean to tell me, Clinton threw the primaries by not using this "Campaign stopping" strategy "OBAMA isnt a real American Citizen" ...or...McCain /Palin threw the election by not using it?

If there was one smidgeon of doubt about Obama's citizenship, you dont think he would have been knocked out of the process after Iowa? Clinton would have used it, and for good reason, if Obama wasnt really an American Citizen.

Pure bunk

[kestrel91316]

6. My birth certificate is a mere "certified copy", and it's legally valid in all

50 states. State offices RETAIN original records in their possession and all anyone can ever get is a copy CERTIFIED TO BE LEGAL AND TRUE. Anyone who can't cope with this fact is a waste of oxygen.

[Clio the Leo]

8. Tell him to call Sarah Palin....

.... who I would imagine he's fond of, and ask her why she didn't bring this up during the campaign ... that is, IF the notion really has any merit. That's what blows my mind on all of this ... if that's all it took, just proving that he wasn't a citizen, dont you think Sarah or McCain or even Hillary would have pursued that as a tactic.

And then get a different electician.

[Starry Messenger]

9. I'm sorry your electrician is a jerk.

You could just tell him nicely you didn't hire him for his stinging political commentary. But that's me. :)

Truly, it's a non-story. And Keyes is a freak.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

10. Alan Keyes IS a nut job... surely you know that.

What more proof do you need?

[seaker]

16. None

The video was way better than a certificate, don't you think?

[WorseBeforeBetter]

23. Between Graham and Rohrabacher on the NewsHour, I didn't watch it...

I've had enough wingnut for one evening. ;-)

[seaker]

25. You are very wise.

[PatGund]

11. In a nutshell.....

According to US law, a minor can't denounce their citizenship.

And according to Indonesian law, Obama was a year too old to gain citizenship there via adoption, even if he had been adopted and COULD renounce his US citizenship.

Your electrician is a birther.

You might want to check out

http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/

or my articles at http://www.yestodemocracy.com/

[POAS]

17. Not quite correct

A minor can renounce but a parent cannot renounce for a minor child.

In order for a minor to renounce the following must be followed:

RENUNCIATION FOR MINOR CHILDREN

Parents cannot renounce U.S. citizenship on behalf of their minor children. Before an oath of renunciation will be administered under Section 349(a)(5) of the INA, a person under the age of eighteen must convince a U.S. diplomatic or consular officer that he/she fully understands the nature and consequences of the oath of renunciation, is not subject to duress or undue influence, and is voluntarily seeking to renounce his/her U.S. citizenship.

A person wishing to renounce his or her U.S. citizenship must voluntarily and with intent to relinquish U.S. citizenship:

1. appear in person before a U.S. consular or diplomatic officer,
2. in a foreign country (normally at a U.S. Embassy or Consulate); and
3. sign an oath of renunciation

[seaker]

18. Thank you for going to so much trouble.

[jberryhill]

60. A six year old is not going to be able to do that /nt

[PatGund]

19. Which is the case now...

Even so, a six year old would not be seen as understanding the nature and consequences of the oath of renunciation. And there would be proof of such.

[POAS]

46. Exactly as I see it.....

Of course some conspiracy nuts would just say that any proof had been destroyed to hide the evidence and a new conspiracy theory will have been born!

[seaker]

56. Thanks for the sites

I will check them out.

[Ikonoklast]

13. Ask him to apply for his original copy birth certificate, and see what happens.

He won't get it. He'll get a certified copy from the state.

[krispos42]

15. Try snopes.com

They debunk this stuff.

[phleshdef]

20. The state of Hawaii has confirmed his BC as valid and a local newspaper reported his birth.

[TheKentuckian]

21. I suggest you scoff and be nasty about it

I see this crap as maximum level stooooopid.

[seaker]

27. I will take your suggestion

Under advisement for any future encounters with those of an electrical nature.:fistbump: Thank you.

[Lex]

22. I only have a "certified copy" of my birth certificate. What's the problem?

It was good enough to prove citizenship and obtain a legal passport.

[seaker]

24. I don't know.

It was a mystery and why I asked. Do you think that this is why the congressman hasn't responded to the electrician's letters?:shrug:

[TheBigotBasher]

26. It is not a mystery

Barack Hussein Obama is a natural born American Citizen. Eligible and elected to be President of the United States of America. Your congressman has not replied to the letter from your electrician because the question deserves nothing more than contempt and indicates that your electrician is a whacko.

[Lex]

28. If I sent my Congressman an idiotic letter, I might not get a response either.

nt

[seaker]

57. ...

Nice to know that the Congressman is screening

[jberryhill]

61. Congresspersons receive letters from people who think UFO's are following them, too

No, they don't answer every nutjob letter.

[pnwmom]

29. The Certificate of Live Birth that Obama produced is the same form that

anyone gets who requests a birth certificate from the State of Hawaii. It shows that he was born in Honolulu, and the head of the state's bureau of vital statistics has stated that it correctly reflects their records.

Obama's having lived in Indonesia for a few years did not affect his citizenship. It is not legally possible for a minor child to renounce his American citizenship. You have to be an adult to do that.

www.snopes.com has a full accounting of the birth certificate/citizenship issues.

[seaker]

58. I have www.snopes.com bookmarked now.

Thanks:hi:

[pnwmom]

62. It is a great site for anytime you hear a questionable rumor. n/t

[JayMusgrove]

30. Hire another electrician, and demand you see his birth certificate

before you hire him, if this really is your most important question in the world.

[seaker]

31. ouch

[Sparkly]

32. Someday, when this is all history, future generations will look back at this and say,

"Are you kidding me?! Charges of a fake birth certificate, being a secret Muslim, being anti-American -- and there were really people who actually believed that?"

"Yeah, some people were freaked out about the first black president. Thank God the five we've had since then, and all the woman presidents too, haven't gone through as much as the first ones."

:D

[SKKY]

33. First, Alan Keyes is an idiot, and is still pissed that Obama waxed the floor with his sad ass...

...in 2004. Secondly, Hawaii confirmed his BC as valid, and I believe you can even find his birth announcement in the local paper. Kinda hard to go back almost half a century and doctor that up.

[seaker]

34. Yes, I have been living under a rock

and yes, he is a nut! Thanks for the help.

[SKKY]

35. I wouldn't say that, but your electrician certainly seems to have been!

:patriot:

[seaker]

36. Thank you. You are very kind.

[LiberalFighter]

37. If it was totally true all of the Republican Senators and the RNC

would had blasted the airways with it during the campaign.

[seaker]

39. That's what I thought too.

He was so animated, I thought I should check the facts.
:hi:

[BlooInBloo]

38. hahahahaaa!!!

[scheming daemons]

40. A child cannot "renounce" their US citizenship... and a parent can't do it for them either

...

[seaker]

41. So I am learning

Thank you for replying:hi:

[TheCentepedeShoes]

42. Mine is a

Standard Certificate of Live Birth
I requested it in 1994. Looks like a copy of the original made on fancy bordered paper with an added portion at the bottom with the signature of the registrar (registrar in 1994, when the copy was made) the date the copy was processed and it is embossed with the proper seal. The seal is part way on the copy and part way on the added portion. The border surrounds the whole thing.
The original resides in OKC
And thank you for reminding me, it and the other stuff in the bag need to go back to the safe deposit - the bank changed locations and Mr 'pede had to bring everything home until we could both go back and sign new cards


:hi:

[seaker]

43. That has been my experience too.

We have the same avatar!:toast:

[TheCentepedeShoes]

53. Fan of O'keefe

I have the same print in my living room
We went to the museum in Santa Fe a few years ago, really neat:)

[SamCooke]

47. Do u know how many people have looked into Obama's background????

I'm sure Bush had the CIA look into him, the NSA probably has monitored him some how, the Clintons put people on him and they came up with nothing. I don't know if thats proof of what u want, but hey the guy seems to be pretty truthful.

[and-justice-for-all]

48. The delay in release was due to Doctor Patient confidentiality...

but, the original was made public by the hospital, in Hawaii, where Obama was born.

This what I always tell the nutters when I see this ignorance. Just how in the hell could Obama have been a US Senator and not be a citizen? He could not have been a Senator and been a citizen. It is a long running bunk pile of repuker bullshit, they are bitter they had their asses handed to them in the election and will be getting their asses handed to them again.

[WeDidIt]

49. Re: Birth Certificate - Here it is

[ejpoeta]

50. maybe you could ask him if he is a citizen. if he says he has his birth certificate,

you can say.... how do i know it's an original or not doctored. it doesn't matter what you say to these idiots. they want to believe that this guy is not a citizen. which is funny, because remember when folks were questioning mccain's citizenship since he was born in panama? obama stood right up and defended mccain!! it's frustrating, but there are people who want to believe hwat they want to believe and no amount of facts are going to change that. it pisses me off, actually.

[proud2BlibKansan]

51. Here's what I tell these idiots:

There was a birth announcement in the Honolulu newspaper week or so after he was born. THAT is easily verified. Now do you really think that he was born in Kenya and his family KNEW he would run for president 47 years later and would need proof he was a US citizen so they planted a birth announcement in the paper??

There is also the fact that since his mom was a US citizen, he was as well, regardless of where he was born.

[ShortnFiery]

52. With respect, I would hire ANOTHER electrician. He may be talented in his selected field

but in his own values and ideological perspectives he's lacking critical thinking skills. Those psychological blinders may just bleed into his work life - resulting in more than a few wires crossed. :scared:

I wouldn't trust a right winger as far as I could throw them and that includes my blood relation. :(

[Adelante]

54. Fact Check: Born in the USA

Look here

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html

[mwb970]

55. Ah, yes. It's the strange phenomenon of the Blue Collar Dittohead.

These are people who stand up for corporate profits and the financial well-being of the richest 1% while allowing themselves and their families to sink into poverty due to republican policies. Then they become bitter, clinging to their god and their guns, and blame the liberals for everything, just like Rush says. Dittoes, Rush! Mega-dittoes!

If this guy were smarter, he'd probably be something besides an electrician. (No offense to electricians, but hey.) Instead, he is a perfect, semi-educated dupe for Limbaugh and Fox "News" (not to mention FR and other crazy online sites) to manipulate. Clearly, he has fallen for the whole Birther deal hook, line, and sinker. This is a sad, lost man with a head filled with lies.

Yes. Get yourself another electrician. They aren't all as dumb as this one.

[jberryhill]

59. It Wouldn't Matter To Them Anyway....

You might check www.obamaconspiracy.org for a wealth of information on this topic.

The "birth certificate" crowd has moved on to other theories, which are not satisfied by the fact that, yes, you can see a certified document at factcheck.org among other places.

Their more creative theories are:

1. Even if born in Hawaii, Obama "lost" his citizenship when his mother remarried and moved to Indonesia. This theory requires a belief that US citizenship of a minor can be revoked. It cannot, but that doesn't stop birthers from believing it.

2. Even if born in Hawaii, Obama is not a "natural born citizen" because his father was not a US citizen. Under this theory the status of "natural born citizen" requires two US citizen parents. The theory arises from a mis-reading of a Swiss text on the law of sovereignty from the 1700's as well as creative reading of a handful of court cases involving citizens.

The birther rabbit hole goes much deeper than "show us the birth certificate", and their objections would not actually be resolved if they had an original BC handed to them by Jesus.

More information about these and other creative birther theories is at the site I mention above.

Ultimately, it is simply an objection to some kind of "otherness" of Barack Obama that they can't quite put their finger on...