Does anyone think Obama released the torture memos fully knowing what the fallout would be???

[SKKY]

I think he did, and it's one of the most politically savvy moves I think I've ever seen. He releases the memos, basically turns the justice department loose on them, and sits back and continues to run the country- "moving forward" as he likes to call it. All the while, Holder is charged with the investigation and subsequent prosecutions, giving Obama an out. Do I have this right, or way off? I'm in Spain and don't get enough news to really dig into the minutia of how this is playing out.

[Bicoastal]

1. Obama's popularity is now at 64%, the highest it's been in a month...

...so you tell me.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

2. i think he released them to gauge public opinion

if public was adamant enough it would go to the next level, if not, end of story

[SKKY]

5. I think just the rumor of their release was his gauge...

...he knows what he's doing. I like your blog by the way.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

9. i havent updated my blog in months. i need to start again

thanks!

[Cha]

13. NO, it's not the end of the story..that's

your version and those of us who have paid attention to the President during the Primaries and General have more confidence in him than your all knowing pronouncement.

[SKKY]

15. Did her response really deserve yours?

I don't think so. She's one of the best posters on this forum, and doesn't deserve your condescension.

[Cha]

16. I answered how I wanted to answer and

I don't need your bullshit poster police sniping.

[SKKY]

17. Cha, say hello to my ignore list.

[Cha]

19. I couldn't be fucking happier not to have

poster police reading my replies.

[ACTION BASTARD]

85. Go Cha GO!

Poster police live for the suck! Put me on your ignore list too.

[NYC_SKP]

20. OMG, OH SNAP!!!

OH, you're sorry now, he's put you on IGNORE!!!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

:hi:

[Cha]

22. Jeeze!

:hi:

[jberryhill]

40. Does the word "if" have any particular meaning to you? /nt

[La Lioness Priyanka]

46. i think you have a problem reading and understanding. sad, really. nt

[northernlights]

58. huh?

try reading for comprehension...:eyes:

[HamdenRice]

65. Whole heartedly agree. Obama is playing chess. Many only see checkers.

Especially those who can't even conceive of chess.

[NoSheep]

70. I agree that our voices raising hell are VERY important. But I don't think he had to be

"convinced" that this was the right thing to do. Our voices show the country that the president has our support. We should keep yelling LOUDLY. But I don't think the O'bashing that's been going on around here has been warranted. We could have raised hell in support without the nasty, simply ridiculous things some have posted here. Is that something we can agree on?

[Kaleko]

I've been posting variations of that theme repeatedly.

Glad that a consensus is emerging - however slowly. But there'll always be those who aren't here to exercise constructive criticism.

[NoSheep]

83. I'm trying to be calm.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

101. i wasnt talking about outrage at obama, i was talking about outrage at torture. nt

[Luminous Animal]

3. It was the ACLU not Obama.

The memos were released as the result of a successful lawsuit brought by the ACLU under the FOIA. The DOJ advised Obama that legal means to keep the memos secret were running out and their release would be inevitable.

[WeDidIt]

6. Not entirely true

The untrue part is that they would be released so nearly intact.

One hell of a lot of the memos could ahve been redacted under the auspices of "national security" and not thing one could have been done by the aCLU to alter it.

[Luminous Animal]

12. The DOJ would have to make its case in court

to release them heavily redacted. It would be a tough stance to argue successfully because as Obama himself said upon their release, "First, the interrogation techniques described in these memos have already been widely reported. "

[WeDidIt]

23. Not as tough as you think

The ACLU couldn't be present in such a hearing and the ACLU would have to appeal.

[Hutzpa]

102. I like your sig line, bang on the money n/t

[SWr]

110. Wrong Again

Lot of "lawyers" in here that have never worked in the government with TSI data.

Here's the ACTUAL process.

ACLU files FOIA suit, CIA responds (says they are classified and covered under NS act).

Judge gets PO'd but nothing he can do.

THE ONLY ... let me repeat ONLY authority in the US ALONE that can ORDER TSI info declassified is .....

... The President.

NO ONE ELSE has the power. Individual agency heads may be delegated authority on a temporary basis which usually only deals with very old outdated and no longer important information.

The President can also completely disregard FOIA if he chooses to do so un the NS act. A lot of people like to hop onto FOIA like its some POWERFUL entity ... there are areas of information and agencies that DO NOT respond to FOIA as they are NOT required to. Sue all you want in court ... they laugh.

(2) "Top Secret" original classification authority may be delegated only by the President; in the performance of executive duties, the Vice President; or an agency head or official designated pursuant to paragraph (a)(2) of this section.

[NoSheep]

84. There you go. And they weren't. What does that say?

[SKKY]

8. Oh. I wasn't aware it was the ACLU that was actually pushing this...

....that's good to know. Thanks! :patriot:

[HughMoran]

51. Even better politically

As was stated above, the ACLU brought many cases against Bushco but nothing of significance was ever released. Obama chose to release these without significant redaction.

[Luminous Animal]

64. What?

Pretty much everything we know about U.S. torture is due to the ACLU's legal efforts and most of the info contained in the memos is already public knowledge. That is why both Obama and Gibbs stated that they would release the memos with minimal redactions.

http://www.aclu.org/safefree/torture/torturefoia.html

[NoSheep]

72. I believe your President promised a transparent government and I believe that is

what is being delivered.

[Luminous Animal]

76. That has nothing to do with my response

or the post I responded to.

Yes, Obama promised a more transparent government and releasing the memos with few redactions is a good step but there is no reason to diminish the work of the ACLU in the process. Without their dogged tenacity over the past 6 years working to get these and other memos released the case would never have reached Obama's DOJ's desk.

[Baby Snooks]

75. Thank you...

We know nothing we really didn't know before but of course some will hail Obama for it - had the ACLU not filed these suits, we would know absolutely nothing. And anyone who thinks we would is a fool.

We are a country guilty of war crimes. We belong at the Hague. I will have faith in Barack Obama when he moves to have the International Criminal Court of Justice put us on trial for our crimes.

We are the monsters. We are the Nazis. We are the good Germans.

[NoSheep]

77. That is what is happening.

[Luminous Animal]

79. Really?

Obama is taking steps to put the torturers in front of the ICC?

[NoSheep]

82. Do you have any solid proof that he is trying to prevent our wishes from being carried out?

I haven't heard anything about him trying to stop the memos from coming out. Come on. You know how I feel about this. I think he's behaving exactly as he should. Maybe we will never agree on that. I think he has left it wide open for those who CAN do something to do it. I think he is smart the way he is handling it. What has he done to stop them? What has he said that cannot be interpreted the way I interpret it?

[Luminous Animal]

87. I never made the claim that he stopped the memos from coming out.

I write what I mean. His language regarding the memos has been cautious. As it should be. It is not his call to make but rather, the DOJ's and Obama cannot be seen politicizing the issue. Though, I do think the he came out too much in front of the issue by proclaiming who the government will not prosecute. It was unfortunate, too, that Rahm and Gibbs had to be reigned in.

Obama needs to keep a lid on the leaks right now, no matter what it takes, and refer all queries to this matter to the DOJ --- not Congress (the grandstanding is making it look like a political vendetta) ---- and stay on message in regards to the economy and devising an actual health care system in the U.S.

[NoSheep]

93. I agree. We agree! Cool.

:kick:

[Hutzpa]

103. Nicely done

kudos to the both of you for having a constructive discussion and coming to an agreement, if only the rest of the us can do this regularly, this place can be great again.


:thumbsup:

:kick:

[saltpoint]

4. President Obama is quite a bit more intelligent and capable a politician

than anyone on the red side of the aisle.

Especially these days.

I certainly don't think much of anything leaves the administration without a fairly thorough going-over. Obama has futurevision. It's a knack, a skill, a gift that includes in its range and scope Churchill's adage that the farther behind one looks the farther ahead one can see.

The Pukes are running around a tiny barnyard squawking about who shook whose hand.

Obama appears to be playing them like a fiddle.

[SKKY]

10. Yes he is. He just keeps feeding them all the rope they want...

[genna]

52. Futurevision? Future vision?

Churchill?

That line of thinking may be a little beyond me.

I don't know what was in Obama's head, what is in his heart about torture, and I don't know what his advisers told him.

I do know some of us have VERY STRONG thoughts on Republicans overreaching and justifying their lawlessness. Nixon overreached with Watergate (I'm sure he did more illegal stuff). Reagan overreached with Iran Contra. Bush I came along and excused 6 of those convicted Reagan Iran Contra people. Bush II did this. Whenever their conduct reaches criminal status, Republicans tend to bluff their way out.

Obama has been in office for 3 months and the Republicans have chewed him up excessively.

I think Obama will be a great president, the more we push him. I don't think he needs to tell the DOJ who to indict and whom to be lenient towards when it comes to torturing other people. I want to know why the Cruel and Unusual Punishment Bill of Rights protection does not fall to people in our custody?

If this policy of covering yourself so you won't be criticized is brilliant, then Bush should get an award.

[saltpoint]

86. I reference a specific quotation of Churchill:

“The farther back you can look, the farther forward you can see.”

--Winston Churchill


--in praising the quality Churchill has indicated in the example of President Obama, expressly to draw contrast with the absence of that attribute in Republicans.

Obama is more agile in part because he has read his History, including Constitutional Law.

[NoSheep]

74. More intelligent than most people I've ever known.

[saltpoint]

89. Hi, NoSheep. I agree. It could be that we are watching the best of the

best.

He appears to have the depth of the highest-held world leader and the political instincts to match.

Not a bad combination when smarmy propagandists are afoot.

McConnell won't be able to hold his crew together, in in "principled" obstruction.

[BlooInBloo]

7. Yes. Those who are absolutely convinced that they are smarter than Obama.

[MasonJar]

11. We'll see! I hope your premise is correct. I am sure he has been

bombarded with displeasure over his original decision not to look backward.

[slipslidingaway]

14. ACLU Agrees To Extension Of Torture Memo Deadline

http://www.aclu.org/safefree/torture/39276prs20090402.html?s_src=RSS


http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/Briefing-by-White-House-Press-Secretary-Robert-Gibbs-4-20-09/

"MR. GIBBS: Well, let's understand first of all the background of this, Ed. There was a Freedom of Information Act case that the legal team here and at other agencies were very convinced was not winnable; that there wasn't going to be a way, in any way, shape or form, to continue to hide these memos."

[genna]

53. My concern, and I do mean sincere concern, is why would they want to hide those memorandums

Bush did not really have national security concerns. He was hiding the trails which demonstrated his administrations rule breaking.

If you are coming along after the fact, noticing all the criminality, why accept the taint which comes from knowing and not doing something to rid the same bureaucratic officials of that taint? If these same civilians are tasked to move forward with Obama's agenda, they must be believable. If they are tainted from the Bush administration, they won't be believable.

The bureaucracy is part of the strength of consistent governance but it is also a weakness if you are following a mess.

[slipslidingaway]

81. Agree, keeping these memos secret was to try and cover up the

laws that were being broken, happy that the ACLU pursued the matter and that the administration complied with the court order instead of trying to find an excuse to keep them hidden.

[NYC_SKP]

18. Well, since you asked. Yes....

Sunday night:

1. He released the memos. He released them for a reason.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5493965&mesg_id=5493983

Monday night:

http://demopedia.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8359010&mesg_id=8359124


Knowing full well? Maybe not. Carefully planting seeds and hoping this fallout would follow? Definitely!

:patriot:

[SKKY]

21. Cool! Thanks!

Sometimes, in the news vacuum that is Armed Forces Radio and Television Service, you don't get to see these things. I haven't had a great deal of time over the past 2 months to sit down and actually read the news.

[NYC_SKP]

24. I'm not sure having more access to MSM would help matters.

In this case, it wouldn't have.

My most reliable sources come from here, from DU, it's a great gateway to good (and sometimes bad) information.

And on this matter, Obama didn't say he'd specifically prevent anything, he took a posture but releasing the memos was a more significant indicator of what he was willing to allow happen than his public position which was deliberately a little vague.

Actions louder than words, I think he did this expertly and had reason to believe it would all lead to thorough investigations, and with public support, not as a result of what others would call an Obama witch hunt.

Pretty skillful, IMHO.

:patriot:

[Hutzpa]

105. Thats why

you're one of my favorite on this board.

Very thoughful, surprise most folks don't get him.

Not that I expect them to...but good job

:thumbsup:

[NYC_SKP]

106. Wow, thanks!

Welcome to my buddy list! :toast:

I've admired your posts and replies, too.

:hi:

[Hutzpa]

109. You're welcome

:toast:

[opihimoimoi]

25. he was playing the odds....that appears to be a master stroke...if indeed

that was his intent...

He is a Master at Flexibility, knows the value of hinting one thing then shooting a 20 footer for 2 points....

Someday we gonna get the inside scoop from a tell all book to memoirs...

Meanwhile, the PEOPLE are riled up to almost pitchforks and torches Level...."We went to war for BS GREED?" "All that Blood, Tears, and Money.....wasted for a few to get rich....Damn"

And they broke the Law during this war.....just to make themselves LOOK GOOD??? WTF is THAT??

Dey iz gonna Burn...the people wanr revenge....they want blood, they want justice.....they want a redemption...

[valerief]

26. Looks that way to me. nt

[omega minimo]

27. Yes, he can predict the future, just like those who said Impeachment wasn't worthwhile.

[FrenchieCat]

28. You got it right....which is why he and his staff emphasized

he wanted to move forward over and over again.
that's what got imprinted on folks' brains....
and so now, no matter how much the Media/GOP tries to say otherwise,
everyone witnessed exactly what happened......and that is
Barack Obama did not do this for the sake of politics.

Him looking like he wasn't interested in opening up a can of worms
is what he needed it to look like.

[SKKY]

29. Another thing that strikes me about all of this...

...is his insistence that the White House will not be prosecuting those who actually committed the torture. But, he doesn't make any mention of those who authorized it. If I were in the latter group, I'd be shitting myself right now.

[FrenchieCat]

31. Well, the WH needs the CIA desperately......

Cause no matter who gets prosecuted,
another terror attack,
and everything would stop dead in its tracks.

In fact, Obama needs the CIA for many different reasons,
and considering how the identity of a CIA agent was revealed
by the last administration, identifying more of them,
would be the last thing that would help matters.

and I think the WH understood the outrage that would ensue
in having Rahm drop that Sunday quote on This Week,
in reference to not prosecuting anyone.
If you watch Rahm on youtube, what he said was done as a matter of course,
almost in a nonchalant manner....
but they knew that it would be picked up big time,
Cause Obama understands politics quite well.

Now, OBama has his alibi, and if he is ever accused of "looking" to investigate;
he can easily say no, he wasn't looking to do this, he was just wanting to look forward.

Further, enough days went by (two days) to where plenty Reporters said that they
felt that Obama was wrong in not wanting the investigation (Many only talked that way,
because they didn't think that Obama would reverse himself).
News-orgs like Newsweek and the NYT and plenty of cable talking heads had plenty to say
from Friday to Tuesday stating that it was wrong for Obama not to want to look into it
....and now it's all on record....so they can't very go after him now, since he ended up
doing exactly what they had advocated.

I think he called it just right....

[genna]

54. Even if Obama had the BEST strategy on tap, no one can predict how any of this will turn out.

Main point: No one can know all these pieces.

I think you can sit down, think through all the known factors, and go forward. It is easy to know exactly how war protesters and torture advocates are going to embrace news that torture occurred but no prosecutions will be forthcoming. It is also simple to know how reporters will react if they are given a tiny hint of wrongdoing and face someone in authority telling them: Reporters can't possibly get the full story.


I don't believe the following things were crucial or necessary for this to come about:

1. The tongue lashing the Obama administration received from Friday to Tuesday was enough to make Obama change his mind.

2. Rahm Emanuel had the masterstroke play of saying one thing on Sunday and Robert Gibbs supporting his statement Monday, then Gibbs changes the operative statement the very next day.

3. The media has and will continue to have a working champion one day but can't turn on a dime and make them the villain the next.



For a scandal to really be a scandal, the media needs someone to beat into submission. If the Bush administration is an old story, the media needs a new angle to bring it forward. It is not enough that the Left is upset about torture and the Bush administration demonstrated torture. It is all in the past.


I think trickling out new facts helps the story over time if there is strategist who can manipulate all the players. Who has the crystal ball capable of figuring out how all these players are going to interact and how it will come out? Obama will have the oxygen on all his programs sucked out of the room if everyone is preoccupied with this. (I don't think that is reason enough to ignore the torture, but it is a reason to believe it is not Obama who is the strategist pushing this line of inquiry.) Obama set out the pieces in the first move of this chess match but there are too many unrefined players in this game for it to be controllable.

[northernlights]

60. exactly

Now those who were "just following orders" are free to speak out and give testimony.

[Ilsa]

33. Exactly! Well said! And I guess Rahm was playing the same game.

The moment this starts looking political, Obama loses politcal capital.

[vaberella]

95. And you'll notice they quote on that alot. n/t

[seaker]

30. Calculatedly,

yes...I think he did and does. I would bet all reactions and responses are within some predetermined perimeters.
:hi:

[AtomicKitten]

32. Of course. He didn't just fall off the turnip truck. n/t

[SKKY]

34. HAHAHAHA...

...my grandfather used that expression. I haven't heard it in a loooooonnngg time. He had a million and one of those little "zingers". My personal favorite, he would use when someone would say something like, "Boy, if the Packers would only sign Joe Montana, they'd be really good!", to which he would reply, "Yea, and if worms carried shotguns birds wouldn't mess with them too much either."

[AtomicKitten]

35. oh gawd

now I really feel old ...

:patriot:

[sampsonblk]

36. In other words, you think Obama is a coward?

I think he knew what the fallout would be, and he decided to go through with it anyway. That's his M.O.

[SKKY]

37. How on earth did you arrive at that conclusion???

Calling him a coward? I was calling him a polital genius. A coward? Nope, I don't see it.

[sampsonblk]

41. Just wondering

You seemed to say that he had opened the can of worms, passed it of the the DOJ and then cleaned his hands of it so as to not get any blame. I think the president has been consistently accepting the heat for the decisions he makes. Its almost weird to see that, because we haven't that kind of leadership in a long long time.

[SKKY]

43. Well, I suppose that's exactly what he did...

...but I have a different take on it. I see it as political brilliance as opposed to cowardice. Either way, these memos were going to come out, and I think he played the hand in a way that allows him to not get bogged down too much in the ensuing controversy and continue doing the countries business.

[genna]

55. Given the same set of circumstances and use a different leader

it would be cowardly. Eric Holder is no chump. He has been in and around the DOJ his entire career.

Why would Obama take the decision to prosecute out of the DOJ post Watergate when the administration of justice is blind?

If Clinton punted the decision over to Janet Reno when the Left was on his butt for not prosecuting, the Left would call him a coward. It would not be seen as political brilliance. Clinton would be seen as Slick Willy for worming his way out of it.


I think Obama did his initial two chess moves and is watching the rest of the board to figure out how to respond. I think his goal is the same no matter what the area is: to make sure he gets as much of his agenda passed as he can within his first Congressional session. If history continues to be his guide, he has a limited amount of time to get it done before the next Congressional election clouds all the legislative issues.

[Kaleko]

92. Exactly.

:thumbsup:

[northernlights]

63. that's not what I read at all

More like, Obama set it up so that investigation and prosecution of war crimes won't be politicized. He's taken himself out of the process so the process can go forward without being painted as politics as usual, but as it really is. Investigation and prosecution of criminal acts.

In doing so, he's taken away weasle-room from the rightwing neocons. They can't call it political revenge. That means that if, and when, prosecutions do go forward, they will stick.

[BlooInBloo]

38. BWAHAHAAAA!!!!

[stillcool]

39. Does anyone think the ..

Armed Services Report was planned to be released right after the memos?

[genna]

56. The Armed Services Report was vetted over the last 3 months.

Someone in the executive knew that the Senate was going to release it as soon as the intelligence community vetted the report.

[stillcool]

59. They still chose the release date

although I guess it could be a coincidence that it was released less than a week after the memos.

[ZombieHorde]

42. I don't know, I can't read his mind. nt

[lamp_shade]

44. I certainly do... and I suspect he got a little "really good" advice from Mr. Emanuel.

[polichick]

45. I don't know if he would have released them without the ACLU suit...

...because lawmakers (including Dems) who knew about the torture didn't object, and Colin Powell must also have been in the know.

[leftofthedial]

47. I don't think any of them (DC insiders--Obama, his crew, "democrats," bushies)

understood how overwhelmingly pervasive and passionate the public desire for justice is.

I think Obama would have been much happier sweeping bush crimes under the Clintonian rug, but the pressure from the "left" forced him to act.


I give more credit to all us "radical fringe stupid pathetic haters" out here in real Democrat land who refused to STFU and go away while the DU Obama support league were trying diligently to shout us down and the mods were locking our threads than I do to Obama's political "genius." He was not the proactive one on this issue.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

48. give more credit to all us "radical fringe stupid pathetic haters"

indeed. :thumbsup:

[genna]

57. I don't know about the internal DU dynamics on Clintonianism

I will just say, I've been consistent on saying there is no way this will go away.

I think the media would have let it go just like they had no appetite to pursue the Iraq WMDs inquiry. I think the Republicans want to continue to paint torture as the 24 ticking time bomb meme. I also think the Democratic officials in the Senate and House went along with this Bush administration crap.

It will take the Left on the outside to push to uncover all of the House and Senate hypocrisy too. Cheney and other Bush administration people might help push the effort because they want to save their own skins. This Jane Harmon situation is informative for just that reason.

[CreekDog]

88. if he's that disconnected from the public how did he just get elected?

how did he beat Hillary?

all i know is that the person i'm talking to always thinks he's smarter and holier than Obama.

at least i know i'm not better than most people i see.

[leftofthedial]

96. who said anything about disconnected?

[CreekDog]

97. You did! You said he doesn't understand how strong the public's desire for justice is...

that's disconnected.

you don't think he's smart enough or aware enough to know that.

(by the way last week you said you didn't know if he was "mesmorized" or "corrupt" and said "probably the latter" --that's your game, don't pretend it's not)

this about a guy, Obama, that managed to beat the establishment candidate for the nomination and beat McCain too.

and you constantly berate him for what he doesn't know? well what do YOU know?

well apparently you think you know more than him.

[leftofthedial]

99. he or anyone else in DC.

I think his plan A was to "look forward" and see if we-the-public went along with him.

When we didn't, he (partly, so far) did the right thing.

It's not a "game."

[CreekDog]

100. maybe

maybe.

[mopinko]

49. i think he released them because it was the right thing to do. and

i think that we are being treated to that most rare event in american politics- a president who feels compelled to do the right thing.

[JayMusgrove]

50. Did Obama come from relative obscurity and win against

the number one recognizable name in the world... Hillary Clinton?

Did he get more support AFTER he was elected?

Is he the President, or a King who decides who to charge with what crimes?

Is he not the smartest political man in the White House since Kennedy or FDR?

[Jennicut]

61. I think he released them partly because it was the right thing to do

and partly from pressure from leftist groups and partly to see where the public stood on this issue. Nothing is ever black and white. It would be easy and more comfortable to sweep it all under the rug but Obama is smarter then that and gets that its not going away any time soon.

[paparush]

62. The Harvard Law Prof is no dummy.

[SKKY]

98. So, I'm thinking on the issue of who is better Harvard or Yale at producing...

...presidents, Harvard appears to be winning.

[Spazito]

66. After watching his campaign during the Primaries and then during the...

Presidential campaign, I have NO doubt he was very well aware of what would happen once the torture memos became public.

[TexasObserver]

67. Yes. He knows to let the public catch up to the information.

[NoSheep]

68. Absolutely. He didn't get elected by not knowing how to play the game.

I'm blown away by anyone who can't see that. It's the only way it could have been done. Where he doesn't get credit are from those who either don't like him or don't trust him (why I have no idea) or are too distracted (notice I didn't say dumb) to get why this had to play the way it did. He is dealing with a country full of people who don't trust their government anymore, on BOTH sides. Without the memos being out there, he'd likely be accused of having some political vendetta or manufacturing fraudulent evidence; the kind of thing we've been used to for the past 8 yrs.

[Life Long Dem]

69. I think you could be right.

I noticed a distraction like this before.

[spanone]

71. a b s o l u t e l y

[Thrill]

73. Giving Obama an out? What are you talking about? Holder deciding is the correct protocol

The POTUS shouldn't be deciding if someone broke the law. Thats the Attorney General's job. If the President is involved its politicizing the DOJ. Which was the problem in the Bush Administration.

This "passing the buck" "Giving Obama an out" narrative is a joke.

[NoSheep]

78. Thank you.

[depakid]

80. You'd have to be exceptionally thick not to know that this would ignite a shit storm.

where the piece fall- no one's wise enough to say.

[Shanti Mama]

90. ABSOLUTELY!

[Imagevision]

91. Smart move, let Holder simply follow the laws...M$M will take care of the rest

[vaberella]

94. I think he knew or figured something of this nature would happen. n/t

[janx]

104. YES. n/t

[Hutzpa]

107. Guess what?

Friday news dump...Pentagon is about to release over two thousand photos next month, round about
the 10th of May.

When that happens, the wounds will be re-opened again and memories will come flooding back to many Americans and they will be calling for blood, because by then he will have everyone's attention.

This is called political Ju-Jitsu....

Send them in turmoil and then throw them to the gauntlet...hence the GOP response has been lame to say the least, their talking point is, he is turning the country into banana republic, thats the best they have.

[moondust]

108. As the Sec of Defense said,

it's going to come out anyway and some of it already has.

[eleny]

111. Yes