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Lieberman joins McCain & Graham: Don’t Prosecute Over Interrogations

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EV_Ares Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-23-09 04:13 AM
Original message
Lieberman joins McCain & Graham: Don’t Prosecute Over Interrogations


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Likes his picture with these guys doesn't he.
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Senators John McCain (R-AZ), Joe Lieberman (I-CT) and Lindsey Graham (R-SC) sent President Obama a letter today in which they expressed strong concern about his decision to leave the door open to the possible prosecution of officials who crafted controversial Bush administration policy on detainee interrogations.

"Pursuing such prosecutions would, we believe, have serious negative effects on the candor with which officials in any administration provide their best advice, and would take our country in a backward-looking direction at a time when our detainee-related challenges demand that we look forward," the letter said.

It went on to say that such prosecutions would have a "seriously chilling effect" on the ability of lawyers to provide legal counsel to the United States.

Adding weight to the letter is its authors' stance on torture. McCain is an outspoken critic of interrogation methods such as waterboarding, having experienced harsh treatment himself. Graham had pushed for greater oversight in detainee interrogation. And the two senators, along with Sen. Carl Levin (D- MI), were responsible for the Detainee Treatment Act, which prohibits inhumane treatment of war prisoners.

The three senators drafted the letter in response to Mr. Obama's statement Tuesday that prosecution of the legal officials is not out of the question. "With respect to those who formulated those legal decisions, I would say that is going to be more of a decision for the attorney general within the parameters of various laws, and I don't want to prejudge that," said the president.

His statement came on the heels of several memorandums that showed that lawyers authorized the use of "enhanced" interrogation techniques by the CIA such as waterboarding, stress positions and exposure to cold during the Bush administration.

Link: http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/04/22/politics/politicalhotsheet/entry4961940.shtml
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and-justice-for-all Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-23-09 04:20 AM
Response to Original message
1. TO JAIL! nt
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SamCooke Donating Member (406 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-23-09 04:24 AM
Response to Original message
2. Tell me the Dems have someone to challenge Lieberman in the next election
Edited on Thu Apr-23-09 04:24 AM by SamCooke
Harold Ford needs to move to that state and run. Someone, anyone rid us of Lieberman.
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zbdent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-23-09 06:06 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. they did last time ... Lieberman lost the party nomination ...
Edited on Thu Apr-23-09 06:07 AM by zbdent
but, at the time, the ReRushlicans were ignoring their own candidate and supporting Lieberman ... and Lieberman was hoping that he'd get Sec. of State under Bush or McCain ...
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-23-09 06:13 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. When he gets on his knees
Its not to pray
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zbdent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-23-09 06:18 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. ironically, he voted FOR the impeachment hearings ...
for exactly the same thing that he does for the ReRushlicans ...
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-23-09 07:56 AM
Response to Reply #2
10. CT has better home grown Democrats than Howard Ford
There were stories the popular AG will challenge him. Someone from CT would know a lot more than I do.
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CTLawGuy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-23-09 06:18 AM
Response to Original message
6. Their aparent premise is wrong
they believe it will chill the giving of honest legal advice. However, what happened here was that the administration wanted to torture and asked its lawyers to give them any justification. That is what they did. They were not giving independent and unbiased legal advice.
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ashling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-23-09 06:36 AM
Response to Original message
7. The story got a major point wrong
McCain is an outspoken critic of interrogation methods such as waterboarding

he is no such thing
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-23-09 07:54 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. Maybe they confused McCain with
Kennedy, who wrote an amendment to McCain's Military Commissions Act (AKA here as the "torture bill") that would have specifically listed waterboarding and 9 other actions as torture. It failed on a party line vote, with McCain voting "NAY". (Specter was the only Republican yea (with Snowe not voting). Nelson of NE the only Democratic NAY - all else were party line.)
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-23-09 07:47 AM
Response to Original message
8. McCain and Graham were 2 of the 3 co-sponsors of what we called the torture bill
That was the September 2006, Millitary Commission Act. Their initial intent was to restrict torture, but they gave and wrote the bill giving the Bush administration the right to define "torture". The fact that McCain was tortured does not mean that he has done more than others to prevent torture, though it does mean he understands it on a level the rest of us don't.

Here is part of Senator Kerry's speech on that bill explaining what it would do:


Today, the leadership of the Senate has decided that legislation that will directly impact America's moral authority in the world merits only a few hours of debate. What is at stake is the authority that is essential to winning and to waging a legitimate and effective war on terror, and also one that is critical to the safety of American troops who may be captured.

If, in a few hours, we squander that moral authority, blur lines that for decades have been absolute, then no speech, no rhetoric, and no promise can restore it.

Four years ago, we were in a similar situation. An Iraq war resolution was rushed through the Senate because of election-year politics--a political calendar, not a statesman's calendar. And 4 years later, the price we are paying is clear for saying to a President and an administration that we would trust them.

Today, we face a different choice--to prevent an irreversible mistake, not to correct one. It is to stand and be counted so that election-year politics do not further compromise our moral authority and the safety of our troops.

Every Senator must ask him or herself: Does the bill before us treat America's authority as a precious national asset that does not limit our power but magnifies our influence in the world? Does it make clear that the U.S. Government recognizes beyond any doubt that the protections of the Geneva Conventions have to be applied to prisoners in order to comply with the law, restore our moral authority, and best protect American troops? Does it make clear that the United States of America does not engage in torture , period?

Despite protests to the contrary, I believe the answer is clearly no. I wish it were not so. I wish this compromise actually protected the integrity and letter and spirit of the Geneva Conventions. But it does not. In fact, I regret to say, despite the words and the protests to the contrary, this bill permits torture. This bill gives the President the discretion to interpret the meaning and application of the Geneva Conventions. It gives confusing definitions of ``torture'' and ``cruel and inhuman treatment'' that are inconsistent with the Detainee Treatment Act, which we passed 1 year ago, and inconsistent with the Army Field Manual. It provides exceptions for pain and suffering ``incidental to lawful sanctions,'' but it does not tell us what the lawful sanctions are.

So what are we voting for with this bill? We are voting to give the President the power to interpret the Geneva Conventions. We are voting to allow pain and suffering incident to some undefined lawful sanctions.

This bill gives an administration that lobbied for torture exactly what it wanted. And the administration has been telling people it gives them what they wanted. The only guarantee we have that these provisions will prohibit torture is the word of the President. Well, I wish I could say the word of the President were enough on an issue as fundamental as torture . But we have been down this road.


The sad thing is that the year before, McCain led a bipartisan effort to strengthen the provision of torture for the military. Rather than insist the CIA follow the same rules, they wrote the legislation allowing the Bush administration define what torture was for the CIA --- and we now see in the released memos that Kerry was 100% right.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-23-09 07:58 AM
Response to Original message
11. Elections have consequences and their sniveling is a bonus. n/t
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nomaco-10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-23-09 08:08 AM
Response to Original message
12. McCain has once again proven what a spineless...
partisan hack he really is. Maverick my ass. He's against torture til his constituents demand it, so he caves to get the nomination. Anything to get elected. I hope we've got somebody good to run against him next cycle.
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-23-09 08:23 AM
Response to Original message
13. General Taguba's
The General's 53-page report, first written in February 2004, had found Iraqi detainees in a cellblock of the notorious Abu Ghraib prison outside Baghdad subjected to "sadistic, blatant, and wanton criminal abuses" at the hands of their U.S. jailers. The abuses included sodomizing of prisoners, pouring cold water and chemicals on naked bodies, threatening detainees with rape and dog attacks, hitting them with chairs and broomsticks and locking them in isolation without food, water or a toilet for three days.

Gen Taguba said that other material not yet public or mentioned in trials included a video showing "a male American soldier in uniform sodomizing a female detainee". The first wave of images also included images of sexual humiliation between a father and his son.

This is official reporting by a General. This is what we know happened. Why would anyone see fit to allow those who did these atrocities to go uninvestigated and unpunished? Rape in uniform, on tape, by order. But they had a note from home. I do not agree with the President on this at all. Not even a bit.
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Supersedeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-23-09 09:18 AM
Response to Original message
14. did John the Maverick McCain bother to read the Senate Armed Services Comm. Report
that he endorced.

Did he bother to read it? What could be more clear!!!
http://armed-services.senate.gov/Publications/Detainee%20Report%20Final_April%2022%202009.pdf

Especially see: p146 of the Report.

"The date of the Chairman's approval (and possibly that of the Deputy DoD General Counsel) occurred after the Office of Legal Counsel (OLC) at the Department of Justice withdrew its March 14, 2003 legal memo upon which DoD had been relying for interrogation techniques. The OLC's notification of DoD General Counsel Jim Haynes of that withdrawal occurred between December 25 and December 31, 2003. Mr. Haynes told the Committee that "the fact that the Department didn't have that opinion to rely on....didn't mean that Mr. Dell'Orto or somebody....could not concluded that something was legal in the absence of the memo."

Not only was Yoo's memo legally defective, but even after it was rescinded, William Haynes, Eliana Davidson, and Daniel Dell'Orto continued to recommend approval of interrogation techniques after December 31, 2003.

This thing was a go no matter what US Navy lawyers said, no matter what US Marine, Air Force, and Army lawyers said, no matter what CITF lawyers said, no matter what FBI lawyers said, and ultimately no matter what the OLC lawyers had to say once the Yoo memos were rescinded.

What a zoo! And the media (with very VERY rare exceptions) wants to divert attention ANYWHERE and to ANYTHING except to the SUBSTANCE of the SENATE Armed Services Committee Report -- WHICH IS DAMNING.

And McCain, John the Maverick McCain, OF ALL PEOPLE!!
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11 Bravo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-23-09 10:05 AM
Response to Original message
15. Why does Joe Lieberman have two hands?
So he can simultaneously give Graham and McCain reach arounds.
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