The republican party has lost its "moral" arguments to gin the values voters.

[Peacetrain]

and the libertarians. The Bush/Cheney cabal is the gift that keeps on giving. They ran rampant over civil rights and free speech. Trials without lawyers, and any way to prove you are innocent, and now, they are trying to explain torture and how the country needs it.

You cannot make this stuff up. If I designed in my mind a group for us to go up against to show low information voters what the other side was like, I could not have designed a better bunch. They are stumbling over themselves to make a case.

Welcome to my parlor said the spider to the fly ;)

[NJmaverick]

1. Anyone that defends torture, automatically loses any claim to

the value voters.

[Peacetrain]

2. Precisely..NT

[T Wolf]

5. But that does not mean they will lose their votes and support. Pukes do have no morals -

at least morals as defined by any rational and human person.

Torture fits right in with the anti-choice, pro-war, anti-civil rights stances that these scumbags adhere to.

[OneGrassRoot]

10. I'm hoping it depends on the torture....

If the media would talk about the sodomizing of teenage boys versus the waterboarding of that Khalid guy, it might turn some rightwing stomachs as well.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

3. depends on how one defines values. to most liberals the bigoted stances

of the republican party, did not have any values to begin with.

to republican base, the bigoted stances is all that defines values. morality to them is very highly based on controlling sex. so to that base, the republicans still have "values"

[Peacetrain]

4. That is true in a sense, there are those you will never reach.. but

there is another group of low information voters, who can swing elections, that hear nothing but rush limbaugh on their way to work. This is something that reaches that group. It is so heinous that it cuts through the rhetoric

[La Lioness Priyanka]

7. i disagree with you...but i think enough americans do not belong to that group

so it doesnt matter. the 30% however will not be convinced that the republican stances are immoral.

however given that they are a minority, mercifully they will be disregarded

[Peacetrain]

9. I am more of that glass half full person.. I really do think this is going to

stick far more than we realize at this point in time.. But anyway you slice it, they have made themselves a much smaller and marginalized party.

[Alcibiades]

11. I think that was what Peacetrain was saying

There are the LIV's and the 30%ers. The 30%ers will never be swayed, for whatever reason, but the LIV's have been a solid part of the Republican coalition, and they can be persuaded.

Though they are a minority, though, the 30%ers will not go away, and the corporate media will continue to give them disproportionate airtime. Thankfully, right now, we are beating them at a different game.

[stillcool]

6. that 'base' loves violence...

against certain people. Rather than object, I imagine they would advocate for more.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

8. yeah. this is my feeling too.