Should Obama pardon Lyndie England?

[TheCoxwain]

If CIA operatives deserve immunity so should the soldiers.


But I am not sure if President Obama has power to pardon in Military Justice cases.

Update:

The issue is not how egregious the acts by individuals CIA/Military were - The issue is that policy formulated at the top was responsible for creating the environment that allowed these acts to occur.

There is a concerted effort by the pukes to deny this reality by blaming ' a few bad apples'. They should not be allowed to get away with it.

I think Potus should pardon the low level operatives and go after the decision makers.

[joeybee12]

1. I agree...we're talking about the lowest level of the food chain...

...she was at the bottom of those being told what to do...if he thinks CIA operatives get off, it's hypocritical to say she shouldn't.

[vaberella]

2. No. I don't know about the CIA agents but I saw the pictures.

She along with her people enjoyed doing what they did. If they didn't, they wouldn't be smiling or take the pictures. I'm not into a pardon for that woman.

There are people who have to engage in the act and are disgusted but know it would be treason otherwise or are willing to risk their humanity for the job. Fine. She enjoyed it, took pictures and had a grand old time.

That takes inhumane to cohort of evil, she's right alongside Rumsfield for enjoying it.

[TheCoxwain]

7. Couple points .. what makes you thinks that none of the CIA operative did not enjoy it?

as to proof .. we have not had leaks of photos to the press - But I am sure worse things were done - especially in the prisons abroad. And a little bit of digging by the DOJ will bring that to light. Its really an open secret.


The real question however is the uniformity of standard.

[vaberella]

11. As I stated...

since I knew that you would make the above point about my understanding of the CIA agents...I said, "I don't know." I never claimed to know and O even said people who acted outside the law and did various other things would face the same probes as everyone else.

However, I saw her actions and she participated and ENJOYED it. She ENJOYED it...it's sick and that is enough to put her behind bars because to me, she wouldn't need to get clarification since for her it was FUN.

As for your statement on uniformity of standard blame Bush. Remember and please please remember, because so many people seem to forget, Obama was NOT president during that time. So the standards will be different. One has a strong level of understanding and good judgement...another was fool. And you're asking for uniformity of standard? You've got to be kidding me.

And I'm sorry, that doesn't even deserve consideration. She did what she did and loved doing it, and she paid dues. End of story.

[madaboutharry]

3. I think he should.

She is a stupid woman who like all other soldiers should not be able to hide behind the "I was just following orders" excuse. That said, I think she has suffered plenty and I think that a clear and loud message needs to be send to those who made this policy. The administration needs to be held accountable.

[frazzled]

15. General Karpinski was "just following orders" too.

Yet many here seem to think she's the bee's knees. Despite the fact that she was in charge of that prison.

I'm confused by all the conflicting responses. Does Karpinski get off the "just following orders" hook because she's smart and dissed Dick Cheney and England sit in prison because she was kind of dumb and young? Both were following orders.

I'm becoming less confused, however, as to just how thorny this whole situation is. The real solution would have been to have impeached Bush/Cheney (fat chance): because in the end, the buck stopped there. It now seems very difficult to know where to draw the lines.

[madaboutharry]

18. I have always thought that Lindy England was

a scapegoat. There is no arguing that she was wrong and her actions criminal, but there is no getting away from the obvious: She was seen as a dumb hick.

It is all upside down.

This government committed war crimes and to ignore that fact is a continuing disgrace.

[Uzybone]

4. No, he shouldnt

she seemed to enjoy what she was doing. Besides its to early to be talking about pardons when the higher ups haven't been prosecuted yet. This is ridiculous jumping of the gun.

[vaberella]

Agreed. n/t

[cali]

5. no.

absolutely no fucking way.

[sofa king]

6. Hayelllllll no!

No, no, no no no. What they should do is take Lyndie England's testimony, and bag every sonofabitch who backed the plan and the cover-up from her to Dick Cheney. You don't pardon a mouse caught in a rat trap, and England shouldn't be pardoned, either.

(As Commander-in-Chief, President Obama's pardon power naturally extends to courts martial. Just because he can do so doesn't mean he should.)

[dgibby]

8. I don't think anyone (CIA, Military,et al, )

should be pardoned; however, I don't believe there should be different rules for the military versus the CIA. Justice should be equal, not selective.

[Bad Thoughts]

9. Beyond the "Four corners" of the DOJ's interpretation

I think the type of abuse at Abu Ghraib was beyond that--it was humiliation.

[vaberella]

14. Exactly...it would fall under that and that's what I saw.

So even O made statements in that regard very clearly. These people added humiliation to torture and liked doing it.

[cherokeeprogressive]

10. He should pardon himself.

But only if he bumps into her.

:evilgrin:

[vaberella]

12. Hah! This is not a funny topic, but your statement was. n/t

[xchrom]

13. no. -- why do we keep asking this?

soldiers know that hese 'orders' -- IF they were given to her -- are illegal.

sadism is sadism and should be punished.

[tridim]

16. Not now, but I do think she should sue BushCo.

[Spinzonner]

17. Just have Rumsfeld serve out her sentence

[sampsonblk]

19. No way

Not yet.

Once its established as fact that higher ranking officers were guilty, that's fine. But the first legal action should not be a pardon.

[Brother Buzz]

20. No, but I have no objection if he chose to pardoned John Walker Lynn

Of topic I know, but I always reflect on the John Walker Lynn affair, and am reminded he was interrogated by the CIA boys. Locked in shipping containers and interrogated.... I believe he could she some light on what was really happening back in the early days of the wars, before rendition and wholesale torture was employed.

[Forkboy]

21. No way. Not even close to agreeing with that one. Go after them all, top to bottom.

You don't let one scumbag go just because you can't get the other scumbags. :)

[ebbie15644]

22. Maybe commuted?

I have a hard time with convicting a poor, uneducated grunt in the service, when NO ONE in the Bush regime has been held accountable. Nowl if we are holding everyone accountable, then fine lock the Lindie Englands up but they sould be the last ones locked up and not the first ones.

[Fleshdancer]

23. No.

I would rather use her conviction as yet another reason why the prosecution of those at the top are needed.

[Joanne98]

24. NO

[AtomicKitten]

25. Nope. n/t