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Desperately trying to implicate Dems, Goss admits CIA broke the law, twice, in briefing Congress

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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-25-09 05:48 PM
Original message
Desperately trying to implicate Dems, Goss admits CIA broke the law, twice, in briefing Congress

Goss Escalates War with Pelosi, Harman

by mcjoan

Former CIA director Porter Goss takes to the op-ed page of WaPo with a shrill screed about the damage done to America's national security now that our dirty torture secrets hae been revealed. "We have given our enemy invaluable information about the rules by which we operate." That argument has been debunked over and over--the information was out regardless of the release of the memos, but more importantly, Goss's and Bush's "rules" are no longer the rules by which we operate.

But what's more interesting about Goss's piece is his target: Pelosi and Harman. Marcy has the full story of the skirmish going on there.

Goss has been trying to implicate Democratic leaders in the torture program, saying that they were fully briefed and should have known that not only were torture techniques had been approved for use, but "had already been employed." Pelosi says that they were not informed that the techniques had been used. Both Pelosi and Harman, at least, objected to the program in secret memorandum or letters--secret because the program was highly classifed. Harman, however, had her letter to CIA counsel declassified. Harman strongly objects to the program on policy grounds, attempting to determine if "enhanced techniques been authorized and approved by the President," but does not indicate that she was aware that the techniques were actually being used.

Marcy wraps up:

Now, setting aside Pelosi's and Goss' differing understanding of the fall 2002 briefing for a moment, note what Goss, even with his version, also admits to.

Even according to Goss' version, just the the Chairs and Ranking Members of the two intelligence committees attended the briefing (though he tries to imply, with his "senior members of Congress," that it was more than that). Not the Majority and Minority Leaders of the House and Senate, as required by law. Briefing just the Gang of Four--and not the full Gang of Eight--is a violation of the law. After all, Pelosi couldn't have complained to the House minority leader (Dick Gephardt at the time), because he had not been briefed on the program!!

So while Goss seems intent on escalating his attempts to implicate Pelosi and Harman in his own complicity with the CIA's torture program, in doing so he admits that CIA broke the law, twice, in its briefing of Congress. It did not brief Congress before it started the torture (and recall, we know the torture had been contemplated since at least April, so they can't claim they didn't have time to inform Congress beforehand). And, the CIA failed to meet the legal requirements on informing Congress by including Congressional leadership as well as intelligence leadership.

Well there's a fun little outgrowth of the torture policy war--Goss just admitted to a violation of the law. Another one. That's pretty important.

There's another dot to connect, though, and that's the torrent of leaks we've seen from "former intelligence officials" (Goss, anyone?) against Harman in the past week, leaks that have been expanded to include Pelosi. What may have looked like tinfoil when drational, Marcy, and I initially wrote about it, here and here, is beginning to look more rational in light of this salvo from Goss.

The Harman wiretap story as yet doesn't prove any criminality on Harman's part, but it does have the potential to be very politically damaging. I think this story has be considered in the context of the torture story, and Goss's efforts to implicate Democrats in it.

Sounds like Goss is peeing in his pants.




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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-25-09 05:51 PM
Response to Original message
1. Nancy helped appoint Goss to co-chair the House Ethics Office.n/t
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-25-09 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. So?
Edited on Sat Apr-25-09 05:54 PM by ProSense
Does that mean she helped him break the law?

Obama and Clinton voted to confirm Condi Rice, are they complicit?

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-25-09 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. You rush in and assume I'm attacking Nancy.
I offered a fact without comment.

Wouldn't it be more useful to figure out how and why that happened than to defend Nancy from something I haven't done?

Christ. I should know better than to post in this forum for any reason. Thanks for the reminder.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-25-09 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. What was the relevance? n/t
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-25-09 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. To my mind, it's that there's something in that relationship
Edited on Sat Apr-25-09 06:09 PM by EFerrari
that was already simmering before this last. What kind of pressure was brought to bear for her to accept his appointment and by whom?

And, that Goss wanted to get into a job where he'd put on a halo.

And, I'm outta here.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-25-09 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Good grief. n/t
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-25-09 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Exactly. Porter Goss is probably doing openly now
what he was doing behind closed doors then. And you don't want to know about that?

Good grief is right.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-25-09 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Again, what the hell does Pelosi knowing Goss have to do with him committing a crime?
Edited on Sat Apr-25-09 06:17 PM by ProSense
It appears that you're simply trying to extend Goss' attempt to implicate Pelosi by claiming she supported his appointment to a position.

That's a ridiculous leap, but you chose to make it.



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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-25-09 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. No one needs to "implicate" Pelosi.
She did support his appointment and DU objected at the time:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=3691214

Moreover, as I said above, Porter Goss is now doing in public what he likely did to Nancy Pelosi in private. So, instead of attacking me in such a knee jerk fashion, maybe you'd be further ahead to assimilate the information for your own benefit. Because frankly, your attack on me is fruitless, fyi.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-25-09 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. The entire OP refutes your argument. You are still jumping to conclusions
Edited on Sat Apr-25-09 07:13 PM by ProSense
because of your preconceived notion that Pelosi has been implicated. That's bogus.

Moreover, as I said above, Porter Goss is now doing in public what he likely did to Nancy Pelosi in private.


Yeah, Goss is the trustworthy one, right?

Ludicrous.




edited typo.


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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-25-09 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Excuse me? I said exactly the opposite of that.
I said these manipulations Goss is now doing in public was likely what he was doing in private back then.

But thank you for projecting all over me. :)
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-25-09 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. No, you are simply using
your version of a conspiracy theory to justify what Goss' might have used to pressure Pelosi.

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-25-09 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Do inconvenient facts automatically go in the CT file for you?
Why did you bother to post this OP if you didn't want other posters to think about it or to contribute to the discussion?

Goss among former members appointed to ethics office
By Susan Crabtree
Posted: 07/24/08 02:26 PM

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) and Minority Leader John Boehner (R-Ohio) on Thursday announced joint appointments to a landmark ethics review board that for the first time will allow private citizens to review allegations against members.

Still, four out of six members of the board for the newly created Office of Congressional Ethics (OCE) will be former members of Congress, including former CIA Director Porter Goss (R-Fla.), who will serve as co-chairman.

The other board members include Rep. David Skaggs (D-Colo.), who will serve as chairman of the board, former Rep. Yvonne Brathwaite Burke (D-Calif.), former Rep. Karan English (D-Ariz.), former House Chief Administrative Officer Jay Eagen and Allison Hayward, the former chief of staff to Bradley Smith, a Republican-appointed former chairman of the Federal Election Commission.

http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/goss-among-former-members-appointed-to-ethics-office-2008-07-24.html
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-25-09 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Maybe I'm not being clear:
What does that have to do with the OP?

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-25-09 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. I think you have been very clear as I have been when I answered that question
multiple times on this thread.

You post an OP about Porter Goss trying to manipulate his way out of trouble by implicating Democrats. I then post an earlier similar instance of Porter Goss manipulating himself into a position that makes him look good in a job no former hitman should hold.

You can either do the math or you can't. You will either be interested in how that happened or you won't. You choose your own adventure, ProSense.

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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-25-09 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. "I then post an earlier similar instance of Porter Goss manipulating himself into a position ..."
Edited on Sat Apr-25-09 07:40 PM by ProSense
You may want to go back and look at the first comment in this thread. It doesn't mention anything about Goss trying to manipulate anyone.



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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-25-09 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. But that's what he does. Let's back up a minute.
If I wanted to criticize Nancy Pelosi, I'd do it straight up just as I always have, and I'd get a few thousand of my neighbors to join me.

http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_elizabet_070908_pelosi_s_fear_of_fly.htm

http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_elizabet_071003_a_spell_from_san_fra.htm

http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_elizabet_071016_nancy_2c_i_am_your_nei.htm



That wasn't my aim in your thread. I was trying to understand what Goss was up to and what it meant for us. But doing the minimum, like bringing all your experience to bear, seems to be the wrong thing to do in this forum. How sad for DU.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-25-09 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Ah, so this is about your views on impeachment. Well let me say
Impeachment would have been a lame response to war crimes. Bush would have handed over nothing. They would have lied, and Senate Repubs (51 in 2003, 55 in 2005, and 49 in 2007) would never have voted (67 voted required) for removal from office.

Impeachment is a very serious affair. It is perhaps the most awesome power of Congress, the ultimate weapon it wields against officials of the federal government. The House of Representatives is the prosecutor. The Senate chamber is the courtroom. The Senate is the jury and also the judge, except in the case of a presidential impeachment trial when the chief justice presides. The harshest penalty is removal from office and disqualification from holding future offices. There is no appeal.


So there would have been an impeachment circus.




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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-25-09 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. No, this is about my tendency to be clear.
Had I wanted to criticize Pelosi in some way, you would have known. It wouldn't be debatable.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-25-09 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. You know what,
you still haven't addressed how the first post indicated manipulation by Goss.

Regardless, the discussion has gone way off track. The OP is about Goss' idiocy.

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-25-09 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. What part of manipulating the media is unclear? lol n/t
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islandgirl808 Donating Member (255 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-25-09 05:55 PM
Response to Original message
3. i don't get it
why doesn't he just keep his mouth shut, is he TRYING to hang himself??

:nopity:
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-25-09 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #3
25. No he's trying to hang others..
and thwart any investigation.
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WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-25-09 06:13 PM
Response to Original message
9. I wonder if Goss and Shelby got a separate briefing
Remember how partisan Bush would be?
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-25-09 08:09 PM
Response to Original message
22. "Briefed" isn't anywhere in the ballpark of authorizing torture, if it's true.
I'm for airing this whole mess out and if some Democrats get caught up in the ugly, so be it.
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-25-09 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. According to Pelosi, and
Bob Graham who was on the Intelligence Agency at the time, they were briefed about the torture program..or the SERE program, but were told it was not being used, and if it were to be put in use they were supposed to be told about it, and they never were. The rumors of this meeting go back a ways, but the only source for the story that I've ever seen is Porter Goss.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-25-09 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. The Rs are making snow angels in their own poo at this point.
Edited on Sat Apr-25-09 09:54 PM by AtomicKitten
I have also read exactly what you have described and it is the most plausible. Also there is that tiny detail that they cannot divulge what is discussed in these high-level briefings, so I'm not exactly sure what the implication of the accusation is. Just trying to spread the stink of blame I guess.
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-25-09 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. I read something that Pelosi said..
that she had never divulged classified information, and had never spoken about the meeting and what was discussed. Obviously Porter Goss did. It's all so damn interesting.
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Egnever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-26-09 03:08 AM
Response to Original message
29. I knew that story on harmon stank!
And so did you!

Good work once again pro!
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 05:02 PM
Response to Original message
30. New report, same old BS.
Meanwhile, questions arose about how much House of Representatives Speaker Nancy Pelosi knew about the techniques.

A report to congressional leaders from CIA Director Leon Panetta disclosed that Pelosi, then the top Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee, was briefed about the use of interrogation techniques in 2002.

She has said she was never told about the use of waterboarding -- simulated drowning -- or other techniques, saying only that the Bush administration had told her about legal opinions justifying their use.

But the report said Pelosi was briefed on Sept. 4, 2002, about enhanced interrogation techniques (EITs) on terrorism suspect Abu Zubaydah "and a description of the particular EITs that had been employed."

Pelosi stuck to her argument that she had not been told waterboarding was used, said Brendan Daly, her spokesman.

"As this document shows, the Speaker was briefed only once, in September 2002. The briefers described these techniques, said they were legal, but said that waterboarding had not yet been used," Daly said.

link

This is based on the same CIA information documented on the Bush administration's watch.

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