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As soon as Al Franken is seated Democrats will have a filibuster proof majority in the Senate

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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-28-09 03:31 PM
Original message
As soon as Al Franken is seated Democrats will have a filibuster proof majority in the Senate
That's what we've been told so there should be no problem is having up and down votes on legislation and appointments.

Isn't that right?

I don't want to hear new and novel excuses now for inaction!

:)
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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-28-09 03:32 PM
Response to Original message
1. If what happened in the New York State Senate is any guide,
watch for Blue Dogs to come out of the woodwork demanding the moon for their votes.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-28-09 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. exactly - this would only be a filibuster-proof majority of the Dems can hold it n/t
Edited on Tue Apr-28-09 03:35 PM by AtomicKitten
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mucifer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-28-09 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
2. ummmm and when is Franken gonna be seated? Next year? The year after?
Don't we have a few months til the MN supreme court will hear this?
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msallied Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-28-09 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Pretty much. June, I believe...
Then it's on to SCOTUS. Yippee!

Meanwhile, I think this election has set a dangerous precedent for future sore losers preventing Congresspeople from representing their constituents. There really ought to be someone filling that seat, and if I lived in MN, I would be infuriated.
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sandyd921 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-29-09 09:03 AM
Response to Reply #2
32. Could be sooner if Harry Reid is smart
With Arlen Spector's defection the repubs are losing valuable seats on Senate committees. The Democrats could potentially trade a few committee memberships for seating Franken.
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msallied Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-28-09 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
3. That's assuming Dems walk in lockstep like Repugs, which we know they don't...
The only good thing that really comes from this is Obama will have an easier time trying to sway members of his own party.
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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-28-09 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #3
12. Ahhhh ..... so the talk about electing 60 Democrats to make the Senate filibuster proof was b.s.?
Edited on Tue Apr-28-09 03:49 PM by Better Believe It
Perhaps we need 70, 80 or how about 100 Democrats in the Senate to make it "filibuster proof"?

Oh boy. I saw this coming. The biggest lame excuse yet for inaction.

Excuse #1 The Republicans control the Senate so we need to elect 51 Democratic Senators in order to get progressive legislation passed. And we can't filibuster Bush appointments because Republicans might change Senate rules ending filibusters with a "nuclear option".

Excuse #2 We now control the Senate but we need to elect a Democratic veto-proof President in order to get progressive legislation signed.

Excuse #3 We control the Senate and have a Democratic president but need to elect 60 Democratic Senators in order to have a "filibuster proof" Senate.

Excuse #4 We control the Senate with 60 votes but some Democrats will filibuster against appointments and legislation so we need to elect a super-duper majority of 70 Democratic Senators to have a "filibuster proof" Senate.

Excuse #5 If 70 Democrats control the Senate after the 2010 elections will we be told "We almost did it! If we can just elect five more Democratic Senators in 2012, giving us 75 Democrats in the Senate, we'll probably be able to get 60 of them to vote cloture ending a Republican/Democratic filibuster!"
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msallied Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-28-09 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. Excuse for inaction? No.
Edited on Tue Apr-28-09 03:59 PM by msallied
Excuse for the reality that just because we have enough seats, we will never have a rubberstamp Congress so long as Dems control it. I don't necessarily think there is anything wrong with this. There are enough "conservadems" in the Senate who will still nitpick and fight amongst themselves about the President's agenda. I think crowing over "filibuster proof" Senate is just a waste of time, period. Democrats aren't sheeple. This has been a virtue in some cases and a liability.
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DJ13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-28-09 03:36 PM
Response to Original message
6. .... and Reid is sh!tting his pants
He wont be able to claim he doesnt have the votes on legislation his campaign contributers dont want enacted.

He might have to <gasp> actually be a leader.

The horror!
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-28-09 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Sen. Reid deserves credit as a leader for getting Spector to switch. (nt)
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DJ13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-28-09 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. So thats a +1 verses the other -3,260
Still needs work as a leader.
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-28-09 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. I think he's done well. He's a long-term strategist. Most people only care about the short-term.(nt)
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provis99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-28-09 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. it sounds like Biden, not Reid, got him to switch.
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T Wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-28-09 03:39 PM
Response to Original message
8. Don't be so fucking stupid! That magic number 60 means nothing in Democratic-land.
We have enough traitors on "our" side of the aisle. That is why we have needed the votes of Spectre, Collins, LIEberman, et al. to get anything done.

Now - if there were 75 Democratic Senators, I would be a little more confident that we could get things past the obstructionist repukes. But 60.

A miss is as good as a mile in this case. And we need a mile to squeak by the thugs.
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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-28-09 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. Democrats can change the Senate rules so that only 51 votes are needed to pass legislation

There will never be 75 Democrats in the Senate. That didn't even happen during the Great Depression when FDR was president.
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T Wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-28-09 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #14
19. Actually, the rules are set for this term and cannot be changed midstream. Remember when LIE left
the party? His defection could not change the committee makeup or anything else because the rules are set at the outset of each session. Only after the elections and a new Congress is sworn in can the rules be revisited.
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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-28-09 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. The Senate can change their rules at anytime during a Senate session.

It was called by the Republicans in 2005 "the nuclear option".

The mere threat of using this option sent the Democrats to their knees.

The Republicans play hardball in the Senate.

Some Democrat don't want to even be on the playing field!

So let's see if the Democratic filibuster proof majority in the Senate has any balls.

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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-28-09 03:42 PM
Response to Original message
10. bzzzzt. no they won't. specter made it quite clear today that that's not
true.
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krawhitham Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-28-09 03:53 PM
Response to Original message
15. "I'm not an automatic 60th vote"
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sampsonblk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-28-09 03:56 PM
Response to Original message
16. K & R
I am with you. That's what we were told. Now lets see what happens.
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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-28-09 03:57 PM
Response to Original message
17. "Spector's Switch: Why It Matters" (link -->)
Edited on Tue Apr-28-09 03:59 PM by ClarkUSA
Sixty is the magic number in the Senate -- but only if the party can muster 60 votes. Sixty members alone doesn't do it, a point emphasized by conservative Democratic Sen. Ben Nelson of Nebraska when asked by the Huffington Post what Specter's move does to his own position as a power broker in the Senate.

"Nothing. Sixty members doesn't translate to 60 votes, so it doesn't really change anything for me," he said. "The automatic assumption that people will take from this is, 'Ah, things are changing.' And maybe they will, but it's not automatic."

There is, however, one automatic change that comes with having 60 votes. The greatest power that the minority has in the Senate is the power to grind things to a halt. By filibustering, the GOP not only blocks the piece of legislation it's opposing, but also any other action that is bottle-necked behind it. The threat to grind things to a halt is one that the majority takes seriously. It gives the minority veto power over small (but important) pieces of legislation that the majority wants but can't afford to lose several weeks pushing. With 60 votes, the majority can push through those smaller measures over the objections of the GOP.

It's a point Sen. Charles Schumer of New York, the third-ranking Democrat, underscored. "The bottom line is, it's still not going to be easy. This is a bold, comprehensive agenda. But the sort-of-just-doing-a-filibuster-at-every-whim to block us is not there and that makes legislating a lot easier," he said.

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PBS Poll-435 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-28-09 04:13 PM
Response to Original message
21. While this is good news, I do believe it sets up for unreasonable expectations
I can count at least 8 of the potential 60 that will not be on our side in some of the more "controversial" legislation.
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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-28-09 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #21
26. That gives us 52 votes, more than enough for passage.

If we can't pass progressive (controversial) legislation and presidential appointments with 60 Democratic Senators how many Democrats do you think we need in the Senate to get the job done?
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PBS Poll-435 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-28-09 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. It is all about Cloture when it comes to things that can not be passed by Reconciliation
We need 68. :evilgrin:

Maybe in '10.
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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-28-09 04:20 PM
Response to Original message
22. Perhaps it will be harder to Democrats to go along with fake phantom Republican filibusters
Time to End the Filibuster By Making It Real
By Robert Schlesinger, Thomas Jefferson Street blog
U.S. News and World Report
March 2, 2009

Is it time to eliminate the filibuster? Definitely not. But David RePass, an emeritus professor of political science at the University of Connecticut, has an interesting suggestion in today's New York Times along those lines but distinctly short of it.

RePass bemoans the fact that the filibuster has given the senate's minority party a functional veto over legislation in that chamber by requiring at least 60 votes to pass something. But, he points out, real filibusters never actually happen these days: the modern "filibuster" is more threat than action.

Which is where RePass' solution comes in:

... fixing the problem would not require any change in Senate rules. The phantom filibuster could be done away with overnight by the Senate majority leader, Harry Reid. All he needs to do is call the minority's bluff by bringing a challenged measure to the floor and letting the debate begin.

In other words, don't get rid of the filibuster. Instead make it real: Force Republicans to actually get up and tie up Senate business and explain why they're doing it. If the GOP (or the Democrats, in time, when they are back in the minority), want to filibuster they should be able to—but they should have to actually do it.

http://www.usnews.com/blogs/robert-schlesinger/2009/03/...

----------------------

The tyranny of the minority
By PETER FENN
March 19, 2009
Peter Fenn is founder of Fenn & King Communications, a Democratic political consulting firm. He worked on the Senate Intelligence Committee and was a top aide to then-Sen. Frank Church (D-Idaho).


President Barack Obama has it right — there is a lot to change about Washington. The problem is, not much will get changed unless we confront the runaway filibuster in the U.S. Senate.

I remember, as a Senate page in the 1960s, the great debates on civil rights that would go on night after night. The rows of uncomfortable beds rolled in made Army barracks look luxurious. As a new Senate staffer in 1975, I also remember the heated debate over the effort to change the vote on cloture from two-thirds to three-fifths, or 60 votes, to shut off debate. Most of us thought that was a good thing, changing the Senate’s Rule 22, which was adopted in 1917. We believed it would be easier to stop obstructionists from paralyzing the Senate.

Thirty years later, boy, were we wrong. I joke that you need 60 votes to rename a post office. The “phantom filibuster,” as University of Connecticut professor emeritus David RePass calls the mere threat of a filibuster, has tied the Senate in knots.

There are really three alternatives. The first is to confront the filibuster as it was intended: to demand continuous debate on an issue, causing a major confrontation with the minority. This would tie up the Senate and provoke a political standoff. The second is to invoke the so-called nuclear option and end the filibuster altogether. The third is to further lower the number of votes needed — say, to 55 instead of 60. This option still leaves the Senate with the problem of a continuous supermajority to pass legislation.

As long as one party or faction feels compelled to constantly require 60 votes to pass anything, the short-term option may be to call its bluff and bring in those lovely cots to sleep in just off the Senate floor. The lawmakers can all look like Jimmy Stewart in “Mr. Smith Goes to Washington.” Or they can look like obstructionists who are impeding real change for the nation.

Please read the complete article at:

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0309/20178.html

-----------------------------------

Op-Ed Contributor
Make My Filibuster
By DAVID E. RePASS
David E. RePass is an emeritus professor of political science at the University of Connecticut.
New York Times
March 1, 2009


PRESIDENT OBAMA has decided to spend his political capital now, pushing through an ambitious agenda of health care, education and energy reform. If the Democrats in the Senate want to help him accomplish his goals, they should work to eliminate one of the greatest threats facing effective governance — the phantom filibuster.

Most Americans think of the filibuster (if they think of it at all) through the lens of “Mr. Smith Goes to Washington” — a minority in the Senate deeply disagrees with a measure, takes to the floor and argues passionately round the clock to prevent it from passing. These filibusters are relatively rare because they take so much time and effort.

In recent years, however, the Senate has become so averse to the filibuster that if fewer than 60 senators support a controversial measure, it usually won’t come up for discussion at all. The mere threat of a filibuster has become a filibuster, a phantom filibuster. Instead of needing a sufficient number of dedicated senators to hold the floor for many days and nights, all it takes to block movement on a bill is for 41 senators to raise their little fingers in opposition.

The phantom filibuster is clearly unconstitutional. The founders required a supermajority in only five situations: veto overrides and votes on treaties, constitutional amendments, convictions of impeached officials and expulsions of members of the House or Senate. The Constitution certainly does not call for a supermajority before debate on any controversial measure can begin.

And fixing the problem would not require any change in Senate rules. The phantom filibuster could be done away with overnight by the Senate majority leader, Harry Reid. All he needs to do is call the minority’s bluff by bringing a challenged measure to the floor and letting the debate begin.

Some argue that this procedure would mire the Senate in one filibuster after another. But avoiding delay by not bringing measures to the floor makes no sense. For fear of not getting much done, almost nothing is done at all. And what does get done is so compromised and toothless to make it filibuster-proof that it fails to solve problems.

It also happens to make a great deal of political sense for the Democrats to force the Republicans to take the Senate floor and show voters that they oppose Mr. Obama’s initiatives. If the Republicans want to publicly block a popular president who is trying to resolve major problems, let them do it. And if the Republicans feel that the basic principles they believe in are worth standing up for, let them exercise their minority rights with an actual filibuster.

Please read the complete article at:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/02/opinion/02RePass.html...
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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-28-09 04:25 PM
Response to Original message
23. So what really is the "nuclear option" that Senate Republicans threatened to use in 2005?

So what really is the "nuclear option" which scared the crap out of Senator Reid and other Democratic Senators in 2005?

-----------------------------

In U.S. politics, the nuclear option is an attempt by the presiding officer of the United States Senate to end a filibuster by majority vote, as opposed to 60 senators voting to end a filibuster. Although it is not provided for in the formal rules of the Senate, the procedure is the subject of a 1957 parliamentary opinion and has been used on several occasions since. The term was coined by Senator Trent Lott (Republican of Mississippi) in 2005

The Nuclear Option is used in response to a filibuster or other dilatory tactic. A senator makes a point of order calling for an immediate vote on the measure before the body, outlining what circumstances allow for this. The presiding officer of the Senate, usually the vice president of the United States or the president pro tempore, makes a parliamentary ruling upholding the senator's point of order. The Constitution is cited at this point, since otherwise the presiding officer is bound by precedent. A supporter of the filibuster may challenge the ruling by asking, "Is the decision of the Chair to stand as the judgment of the Senate?" This is referred to as "appealing from the Chair." An opponent of the filibuster will then move to table the appeal. As tabling is non-debatable, a vote is held immediately. A simple majority decides the issue. If the appeal is successfully tabled, then the presiding officer's ruling that the filibuster is unconstitutional is thereby upheld. Thus a simple majority is able to cut off debate, and the Senate moves to a vote on the substantive issue under consideration. The effect of the nuclear option is not limited to the single question under consideration, as it would be in a cloture vote. Rather, the nuclear option effects a change in the operational rules of the Senate, so that the filibuster or dilatory tactic would thereafter be barred by the new precedent.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_option

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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-28-09 04:27 PM
Response to Original message
24. So you're saying that the Democrats will vote that way 100% of the time
What are you taking - I need me some of that.

It means IF we can get herd all the cats called the Democratic (and Dem aligned senators) we could feasibly filibuster without anything stopping us.

However have you ever tried herding cats?
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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-28-09 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. So you're saying Democratic Senators will join Republicans in a real filibuster against ....
progressive legislation and presidential appointments?

I hope you're wrong.

But, if you're right, how many Democratic Senators does it take to screw in a light bulb .... oopppsss .... I meant to write how many Democrats does it take to screw the Republicans in the Senate?

We were told 60.

So how many do you think are required .... 70, 80, perhaps 90. I think 100 Senate Democrats should clearly be enough to end filibusters.

But all kidding aside, how many Democrats do you think we need in the Senate to stop Republican initiated filibusters?

Give me a credible number.
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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-28-09 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. How man democratic senators - NO one can answer that question - NO ONE
seriously!

We can only keep trying to win more elections in hopes that one day we'll hit that magic number.
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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-28-09 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. If you hold their feet to the fire we won't have to worry about the numbers
60 is more than enough.

And all we need is a simple majority to end all Republican filibusters. It's called the nuclear option.

You'll never hit that "magic number" which is probably a lot higher than 60.

If the Democratic Party with 60 votes in the Senate, a huge majority in the House and a Democratic president can't overcome and defeat a small obstructionist Republican minority in Congress what are they good for?

Are the Republicans really that much more effective when they had smaller majorities in Congress. And it was really embarassing in 2005 when the Republicans threatened to use the "nuclear option" in the Senate which caused Democrats to surrender to the Republican minority.

What I'm really saying is that it's time for the Democrats to act like they won the 2008 election, and not the Republicans.
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smoochpooch Donating Member (688 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-28-09 06:26 PM
Response to Original message
30. This is as good as it gets; it is unreasonable to think we'll somehow gain more seats in the future
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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-29-09 08:45 AM
Response to Original message
31. Washington Post: Democrats Are Poised to Hold A Powerful 60-Seat Majority

Specter Leaves GOP, Shifting Senate Balance
Democrats Are Poised to Hold A Powerful 60-Seat Majority
Washington Post
April 29, 2009

Sen. Arlen Specter of Pennsylvania provided a boost to President Obama's ambitious legislative agenda yesterday by abandoning the Republican Party in the face of shifting political realities at home and an aggressive courtship by the White House and party leaders.

Although he said he "will not be an automatic 60th vote" for Democrats, Specter's decision left Democratic Party leaders jubilant. The addition of Specter to their ranks, coupled with the likelihood that the Minnesota Supreme Court will name Al Franken the winner of that state's disputed Senate race in the coming months, means that Democrats are all but certain to control a filibuster-proof 60-seat majority in the chamber for the first time in about 30 years.

Neither party has controlled 60 or more seats since 1978, and Republicans warned yesterday that such a majority would give Obama almost unfettered control over the federal government. But Specter vowed to maintain his current policy positions -- including opposition to a labor organizing bill and to the nominee Obama has tapped to run the key legal counsel unit at the Justice Department.

But even as Specter pledged his continued independence, Senate Majority Leader Harry M. Reid (D-Nev.) later told reporters that there is an effort underway to refashion the union legislation in an effort to gain Specter's support. The Pennsylvanian supported the legislation, known as the Employee Free Choice Act, in 2007 but announced his opposition to the bill in its current form as his primary challenge from former congressman Pat Toomey (R) gained momentum.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2009/04/28/ST2009042801751.html

- Weaken the Employee Free Choice Act in order to get Senator Specter's vote in support of it? We don't need his vote to pass it. 50 Senate votes with Vice-President Biden casting the tie-breaker are required to pass EFCA. Is Senator Specter suggesting that he would join a Republican filibuster against EFCA and not vote to end such a filibuster?
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