I have to say this! I like most progressives would prefer the President to be more progressive, but

[ej510]

we have to understand; the country is not that progressive, but it is moving their slowly. Most of the country sits in the middle. If we alienate the moderates we will end up in the same place as the repukes. We have to except the conservative dems, because their constituents are not progressive. The reason we control everything is, because we accept everyone. It is better to be in the majority than in the minority.

[safeinOhio]

1. Just like steering a battle ship.

[valerief]

5. He said ocean liner, I think. nt

[BlooInBloo]

10. I think he said both, at different times. :)

[valerief]

12. Oh, well. You listened better than me, then. nt

[valerief]

2. The country IS progressive. It voted for Obama. I never listen to

the bobbleheads who chant that "we're the middle" shit. I know people want help from the govt when they have to make a choice between the streets and a warm, safe bed. That's a progressive concept.

[Clio the Leo]

6. then why did they vote for Bush and more importantly...

... why aren't we talking about President Kucinich's press conference tonight?

[valerief]

11. They voted for Gore and then Kerry. The Supreme Court GAVE the

presidency to Bush. Blackwell of Ohio and Diebold handed Bush his second term.

[Clio the Leo]

14. No they didn't....

62 million people voted for Bush in 2004 and 50 million people voted for him in 2000.

I understand your point, the Republicans stole the last two elections, yada yada yada .... but they didn't steal ALL 50 million plus votes.

Nope ... a HUGE CHUNK of those 50 million plus voters were moderates ... who voted against the Democratic candidate of their own free will.

It happend before and if we rest on our laurels, it could happen again.

[valerief]

16. So says Diebold. nt

[Clio the Leo]

20. And all of my hillbilly neighbors! NT

[valerief]

22. Ha!!!

:rofl:

[Sebastian Doyle]

33. Who were brainwashed by the whore media and their dumbfuck preachers

...into believing that "queers gettin married" would bring about the end of civilization itself (but that Jesus was completely OK with Chimp slaughtering and pillaging Iraq and Afghanistan while his friends robbed us blind)

[Wetzelbill]

18. because people don't vote for their beliefs

they often vote for an image. And they base that image off of what they see in a media filter or are told by certain trusted sources like friends or even local political figures etc. Plus, Kucinich isn't part of a general status quo, he fights against that, so as a result he would never ever catch on enough or raise enough money to be competitive in a presidential race. Obama has much more going for him in terms of style etc. Even people here who are more in tune with DK's philosophy than Obama's or even Hillary's supported them in a primary over him. Most people on this site have beliefs closer to DK's than Obama's but he wouldn't even win a straight up poll here against the president. That's not because DU isn't progressive, that's for sure.

[vaberella]

34. It is NOT progressive. They can be progressive on SOME issues, not all.

There are people progressive on some and there are people extremely conservative on others. Many people voted on O becase they didn't want another Bush---that they saw in McCain. It's not to say the country is progressive that they voted for O. They may have supported a few ideals or have a bit of self-interest in voting for him---especially after Bush. But don't think---if you're a progressive they support your views.

[Clio the Leo]

3. ding! ding! ding!

YOU get the "Best thread of the night" award!

... no, make that "of the week!"

............ no, make that OF THE WHOLE FRICKIN MONTH!!!!

[scheming daemons]

4. The Republicans "except" everyone. The Democrats "accept" everyone.

;-)

[rwheeler31]

7. Come on Ragun said progress is our most important product.

He was pushing salt at the time.

[rwheeler31]

8. Come on Ragun said progress is our most important product.

He was pushing salt at the time.

[Wetzelbill]

9. mosty of the country is pretty progressive

They just don't call themselves that. Most politicians and media members aren't progressive and that's the biggest difference. Quite a bit of it has to do with labels, including the word "progressive." Most people wouldn't even really know what the hell progressive really means in a political context but they do know what "Liberal" means and that word is a pejorative some even people who are liberal shy away from calling themselves it. Most people are fairly liberal, they just would never ever call themselves it.

[ej510]

13. If we ran Kucinich in the South he would get thumped.

[Clio the Leo]

15. *

[ej510]

17. If america was as progressive as some progressives believe then Peter Defazio, would

have a bigger name.

[Wetzelbill]

19. What does that have to do with what I said?

Obama lost the South too, and your point is what?

[ej510]

23. Your statement proves my point.

[Wetzelbill]

24. So you think one region is the whole country?

Look at polls of liberal issues. Single-payer healthcare? Most people want it. Gay Marriage? Most people are fine with it. And on and on and on.

Most voters think Obama is the most liberal member of the Senate and they still voted for him. They think he's affiliated with a radical leftist black preacher and they still voted for him. People didn't vote for Obama because they think he's Evan Bayh, they think he is more liberal or at least as liberal as Ted Kennedy.

If you look at the breakdown of voting from this election, which you obviously haven't, then you would see that the only red part of our country is a short swath along the Bible Belt. There was a map in the NY Times that put it all in color and almost all the country was Blue or Purple. The demographics growing in our country the most are people who are solidly progressive. Hispanics, in particular. And that's just the voting public. The non-voting public tends to believe in more liberal issues but they just don't really vote because they believe nobody looks out for them. But again, those groups support things like single-payer healthcare, and they certainly don't espouse the same type of things you hear from the RW or RW Dems. If it proved your point then we'd have McCain for president and Obama wouldn't have won in a blowout and the Republicans would have big majorities in Congress. As it turns out they only can win in gerrymandered districts.

[ej510]

25. Ok ignore the 50 million McCain voters.

That is the most accurate poll we can look at.

[Wetzelbill]

27. last time I checked

50 million wasn't the whole country or most of it. And most people I know think McCain is pretty liberal. Republicans almost universally consider McCain a liberal Republican and they still voted for him. You're grasping at straws. The most accurate rundown is the state by state voting registration and there are only 7 states that are Republican, and only four of those are all that solid. Then any other polls provided on various issues you'll see that people consistently and overwhelmingly take progressive or liberal positions. But even then, people don't always vote for their beliefs. There are millions of people who believe we should have universal healthcare but they voted for Bush and McCain, for example. I know a guy who is liberal in most of his positions, but he votes Republican because he votes on image. But on policy, he would support right now if Obama put up liberal legislation on issues like healthcare. Most people believe in progressive ideas, poll after poll shows it. It's not hard to grasp.

[ej510]

29. I disagree if we roll a very progressive agenda right away Obama will a significant amount

of support.

[Wetzelbill]

31. we already did

the stimulus was the most progressive piece of legislation in decades and it didn't hurt him at all. If Obama included a public option in his health care proposal and took a more progressive position on the banks it would help him, not hurt him. If he promoted something like civil unions, at least, that would help him not hurt him. The only people it hurts him with are people who would never support him or just about any Dem anyway. And it certainly wouldn't hurt Obama to appoint a special prosecutor to look into the torture issue, although the rule of law isn't supposed to be a progressive idea. You can't lose support if almost everybody agrees with you. About the only people who would give him trouble are a nearly irrelevant minority party and the keystone cop media. But they do that anyway. How many times have you heard in the media that Obama is "doing too much"? They're going to say most of this stuff anyway. Outside of the Beltway, becoming more progressive helps me more than anything.

[Optical.Catalyst]

21. Progressive policies and programs have not really been given a chance to succeed

Now is our chance. With the Republicans down to 39 Senators, and falling, we have the opportunity to pass some real progressive bills and see them through to fulfillment. When the American people are allowed to reap the benefits of what true, unrestricted progressive policies can do, they will become believers.

For a limited time, the Republicans have been side lined and we have control of the forum. It may appear that we are running rough shod over the conservatives (not that they don't deserve it) but we have to get true reform through Congress and signed into law. Nothing breeds success like success, and this is the best opportunity for success that I can ever remember.

[lunatica]

26. I agree

The country isn't ready for too many progressive changes right now. If they come slowly then no one will notice it much.

Just remember, no one thought the country was ready for a Black President or for a Woman President. Now it all seems quite normal.

[ej510]

28. We have to roll it out slowly. Hannity. Limbaugh, and the rest of hate radio

does a great job in scaring the public.

[lunatica]

30. I'm waiting for the day gay marriage is commonplace everywhere

and the screamers realize their miserable little marriages haven't changed at all because of it. Once that happens they won't be able to use the 'gay agenda' as a wedge issue. That's progress!

[backscatter712]

32. As FDR once said...

to activists who were impatient with him and wishing he'd act...

"I agree with you, I want to do it, now make me do it."