**Heads Up** Netanyahu is going to agree to a Palestinian State

[Peacetrain]

I just caught that Netanyahu will be giving a speech, giving into President Obama and agreeing to a Palestinian state with exceptions such as not being armed. Has the world come off its axis!!! If this is true, the right will blow up!

EDIT... I am pinching myself..Iran is turning itself inside out aka Poland, Netanyahu is agreeing on some level to a Palestinian state..even the Chinese and Russians have signed on to UN sanctions against NK.. If I am dreaming do not wake me up

[Kdillard]

1. How can you have a state without defensive capabilities?

I am glad at least he is trying but I don't think it is enough.

[Peacetrain]

2. If this is true, moving even this much ...especially with Netanyahu

is unbelievable. (edit for grammar correction)

[Kdillard]

7. Yes hopefully there will be some sort of agreement within the next two

years. It is good that there has even been this much progress. Realisitic details will have to be worked out.

[Peacetrain]

15. Such a good point.. the devil is in the details..and it would take

years to get it completely worked out..

[WonderGrunion]

26. Japan after World War II was not permitted to have a military

I always thought Switzerland had no formal military as well.

[BlooInBloo]

3. Under conditions a few of which are silly, all of which is really aimed at distracting...

from the sine qua non: settlements. This was leaked days ago, and appears to be nothing more than a way for Bibi to continue not doing anything for peace.

As I recall, the "control over Palestinian communications" req was one of the sillier conditions.

[Peacetrain]

6. I had not read that before Bloo.. I have no idea what the detalis are..

But if we can get Netanyahu to move to agreeing with a state for Palestine.. the details can be worked out.

[BlooInBloo]

14. Let me see if I can find a link with the details....... Success!

http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2009/06/12/bibis_conditions

" • Any Palestinian state must be demilitarized, without an air force, full-fledged army or heavy weapons.

• Palestinians may not sign treaties with powers hostile to Israel.

• A Palestinian state must allow Israeli civilian and military aircraft unfettered access to Palestinian airspace, allow Israel to retain control of the airwaves and to station Israeli troops on a future state's eastern and southern borders.

• Palestinians must accept Israel as a Jewish state, a nod to the hawkish side of Mr. Netanyahu's governing coalition that has raised concerns that the Palestinian Authority, which nominally governs the West Bank, does not recognize Israel as a Jewish state."


The first condition is sketchy. The third condition is just asinine. Bibi isn't proposing a Palestinian state, he's proposing a Palestinian zoo.

[Peacetrain]

17. Thanks Bloo!!.. it is good to get as many sides of this out and in our

decision process to make the best of the situation.

[Douglas Carpenter]

20. you are absolutely right!! It is disingenuous. It is intransigence and rejectionism at its worse

Bibi has declared clearly and unambiguously he is against the two-state solution or any solution except permanent apartheid, whether in one state or with a second nonviable, noncontiguous and non-independent pseudo-state.

[Cha]

4. How will the troll mitt

weave "Obama's Apology Tour" into that?

[Peacetrain]

9. With all the movement in the middle east that we have gotten since we got RID

of the republicans, seems to be lost on them

[Cha]

16. It's not lost..they dig

for any crap that will stick..it doesn't matter where they find it.

So far all their digging has netted them 0.

[Peacetrain]

18. It is tough to be them..

:) Good to be us

[Jackeens]

5. Just saw it confirmed (BBC), he's agreed to a "demilitarised" Palestinian state.

Can't see the Palestinians giving up the right to defend themselves, but still, it's a staggering breakthrough from a man of Netanyahu's political views.

[Peacetrain]

8. That is how I see it.. that move is staggering.. and a country has a right

to self defense. That one will be hammered out. But to get Netanyahu to move to this is amazing to me

[4lbs]

10. Instead of an "official" Palestinian military, Israel might agree to a joint Israeli-Palestinian

force that keeps peace along the border of the two-states and in Palestine.

We'll see if that actually is proposed. It's just my speculation right now.

[babylonsister]

11. This is from Friday...

and I agree, the Palestinians need the ability to defend themselves, especially considering some of their more bellicose neighbors.

U.S.: Netanyahu policy speech not adequate
By Reuters


The proposals to be outlined in Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's speech on Sunday will not be enough to satisfy the Obama administration, a senior U.S. official was quoted as saying on Friday.

The official said Netanyahu told U.S. envoy George Mitchell this week what he planned to say in the speech and that it was "not adequate" to satisfy Washington, who is pushing for an immediate resumption of talks on Palestinian statehood.

The official was quoted on Friday by participants at a meeting this week of the so-called Quartet of Middle East mediators.

Netanyahu's refusal to declare a building freeze in Jewish settlements in the West Bank and to endorse the goal of establishing a Palestinian state -- both set out in a 2003 peace "road map" -- has opened a rare rift in U.S.-Israeli relations.

Anxious to preserve the alliance but also beholden to his fractious and right-leaning governing coalition, Netanyahu has spoken of stop-gap proposals such as Palestinian self-government shorn of sovereign powers like the right to set up an army.

more...

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1092452.html

[Peacetrain]

13. Thanks for the link!!! The last paragarph says so much

"In the framework of that, we want to see the Arab states play an increased role," the official said. "The speech will acknowledge the road map and deal with the issue of statehood."

[Bullet1987]

12. I still have my doubts this goes totally through

Too many powerful people both in Israel and the West can still prevent this from happening...even if Netanyahu agrees with Obama.

[Douglas Carpenter]

19. if the vast majority of settlements are not removed, a contiguous, viable and independent state is

impossible. Everyone knows this.

There are approximately 450,000 Israeli settlers in the West Bank, (*now closer to 500,000) including East Jerusalem. According to B'tselem: The Israeli Information Center for Human Rights, " the built-up area of the settlements in the West Bank covers 1.7 percent of the West Bank, the settlements control 41.9 percent of the entire West Bank".*

http://www.btselem.org/English/Maps/Index.asp

full PDF map:

http://www.btselem.org/Download/Settlements_Map_Eng.pdf

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/728a69d4-12b1-11dc-a475-000b5df10621,Authorised=false.html?_i_location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fcms%2Fs%2F0%2F728a69d4-12b1-11dc-a475-000b5df10621.html%3Fnclick_check%3D1&_i_referer=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.democraticunderground.com%2Fdiscuss%2Fdu


“there is no Palestinian state, even though the Israelis speak of one.” Instead, he said, “there will be a settler state and a Palestinian built-up area, divided into three sectors, cut by fingers of Israeli settlement and connected only by narrow roads."
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/11/world/middleeast/11road.html?_r=8&pagewanted=2&ei=5070&en=22948d4799a34065&ex=1187496000&emc=eta1&oref=

============================================


http://www.icahd.org/eng/articles.asp?menu=6&submenu=3&map=yes

.

[Scurrilous]

21. Kick

:kick:

[AspenRose]

22. Wow.

:wow:

[boppers]

23. It seems to be a "state" in name only.

As others have noted: No method of defense, no control of air/water, mass-media run outside of the state, all goods in/out inspected/controlled, military from an outside entity enforcing law, etc.

That's about as insulting as calling the Warsaw ghetto a "Jewish city", because the Judenrat had "control" of their own area.

[WinkyDink]

25. Well, perhps the plan is for the new state to exist longer than the Warsaw Ghetto?

Jews should have been so "insulted."

[boppers]

27. Not sure I understand.

100,000 died on the streets of the Ghetto in only three years (1940-1942), before Operation Reinhard/Grossaktion Warsaw started.

I suppose the Reich could have maintained the Ghetto, without the liquidation (is that your point?), extending the timetable of brutality and death, but massive issues of hunger, disease, and crime kill a person just as dead as suffocation in a cattle car or gassing. Life in the Ghetto was beyond endurable.

It was so bad that many willingly got onto the trains to Treblinka for "resettlement to the east", resulting in another 250,000-300,000 deaths (Summer-Fall of 1942), eventually leading to a full-on revolt (once word got back on what "resettlement" really was) by the surviving members of the Ghetto, with another 50,000 (1943) dead.

[grantcart]

24. an * state

[JayMusgrove]

28. WHat I heard out of his mouth.............didn't sound like.......

peace.......sounded like arrogant Jew fucking over the USA for all the help we gave them...............




Let's make sure you specify what this guy said that talks about peace with Arabs.

[jenmito]

31. Sadly, I think you're right. His speech started out good but then

turned out to be more and more ANTI-Palestinian state since he started talking about what sounded like expanding settlements, making the Palestinians give up any right to protect themselves, and on and on.

[keep_it_real]

29. Action speaks talk is cheap

[SamCooke]

30. This is going nowhere. THe Palestinians have already laughed this off.

How can they be a state with no army, and no way to defend themselves? Thats retarded and Bibi knows it.

[Canuckistanian]

32. Not so fast

Palestinian authorities are saying that Netanyahu has put so many conditions on this, that it's actually a step backwards.

For instance, NO stopping the new settlements or even negotiating giving any up.

And the "no army" condition is a dead show-stopper.