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wadestock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 12:15 PM
Original message
Sudden shift in Electoral College
I've been following this site: http://www.electoral-vote.com/sep/sep20.html

Yesterday's
Electoral Vote Predictor 2004: Kerry 211 Bush 327
Strong Kerry (110)
Weak Kerry (63)
Barely Kerry (38)
Exactly tied (0)
Barely Bush (90)
Weak Bush (67)
Strong Bush (170)

Today's
Electoral Vote Predictor 2004: Kerry 239 Bush 256
Strong Kerry (117)
Weak Kerry (66)
Barely Kerry (56)
Exactly tied (43)
Barely Bush (49)
Weak Bush (43)
Strong Bush (164)

Interesting footnotes provided:
News from the Votemaster

Time is running out. While the election is 6 weeks away, the deadline for registering as a voter is almost upon us. In most states it is in less than two weeks. This rapidly approaching deadline is especially important for the 5 million overseas voters who have to send in the registration form by snail mail, although in some states there is now a way to beat the deadline by fax, as described on the Americans abroad page. If you, your family, or your friends are not registered to vote yet, now is the time.

Some voters have a choice where to register. When George Bush picked Dick Cheney as his running mate in 2000, there was the minor matter that Cheney' presence on the ticket might cause Bush to lose Texas' 32 votes in the electoral college and hence the election. Seems the constitution says electors can't vote for both a president and a vice president from their own state. In the spring of 2000, both Bush and Cheney were living in Texas and registered to vote in Texas. Cheney finessed the problem by changing his voter registration to Wyoming, where he had a summer home. This act could be considered creative voter registration because by no stretch of the imagination did Dick Cheney suddenly become a resident of Wyoming. He continued to live in Texas where he was running Halliburton, the oil services company that continued to pay him a salary even while he was vice president of the United States. The latter job doesn't pay very well--only $202,900 per year--so a bit on the side is always helpful. That Halliburton received a $7 billion no-bid contract to help rebuild Iraq's oil industry is mere coincidence.

But even if you are not Dick Cheney, Cheney's first law of voter registration ("Register where it helps most") may apply to you. In particular, college students studying in a swing state may be able to choose choose between their parents' address and their college address. If a student has no plans to ever live with his or her parents again, a good case can be made that the student no longer lives in the parent's state and can thus register in the college's state. Students living in a dorm and paying out-of-state tuition have a weak case, but can argue that they are planning to run for vice president some day. Students living off campus or paying in-state tuition have a strong case. If you are from a solid state and are studying in a swing state (or vice versa), or have a child, grandchild, friend, or neighbor in this category, please see Swing State Voter Project for details. Also, if you are a snowbird and live for 6 months in the North and 6 months in Florida where you own or rent a house or condo, register in Florida. But hurry. Being registered in two states is illegal, so if you register in a new state, be sure to cancel the old one. If George Orwell were alive now, he would say "All votes are equal but some votes are more equal."

There are seven new polls today. In Florida Bush's lead has dropped to 1%. But the strangest result is in New Hampshire, where the Rasmussen 7-day tracking poll puts Kerry ahead by 6% again.

The Mason-Dixon poll of Sept. 13-15 giving Bush a 9% lead was just way off.

A 15% change in two days in a small homogeneous state in the absence of any major news is unthinkable.

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NewYorkerfromMass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 12:18 PM
Response to Original message
1. Proof that site is a complete waste
Look at this trend line for Maryland:

http://www.electoral-vote.com/states/maryland.html

The site is a waste. With a capital W. Like the "prez".
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Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Right.
Bush will win Maryland when Hitler wins in Israel.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. Kerry will win Maryland this year!
No question about it. And I think that Kerry will win Virginia too.

Even Republicans in Washington despise BushCo. They all live in Maryland and Virginia.
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onehandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. No, it's proof that the poll takers are a complete waste.
He just compiles their crappy conclusions. And comments on it every day.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Goldmund Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #1
9. Don't blame the site.
Edited on Tue Sep-21-04 12:24 PM by slavkomae
You may not find much value in their "trend-line" methodology (I don't either, in most cases) -- but it's a common statistical technique. In addition to giving you the present polling situation, it gives you an idea of what will happen if the trends of the past 2 months continue on over the next 2. That "IF" you can take with as big a grain of salt as you want.
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NewYorkerfromMass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #9
18. but no chance that the most recent poll is wrong
due to ignoring the previous 3 months of polls showing Kerry with SOLID Md. support.
Equal weight should have been given to the previous history.
It's farcical.
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Goldmund Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Sure.
But that solid MD support has been shrinking -- and while Kerry still is ahead of bush, if the trends continue, he won't be by Nov. 2nd. It's just math -- it doesn't take any political wisdom into consideration.

The site clearly says that it only takes the latest polls into account, whatever they are. It's not trying to deceive you -- it just gives you the results of one particular methodology. If you decide it's farcical, then that's up to you. I think that this site has been valuable in describing general trends -- although the methodology results in an exaggeration of their intensity. When Kerry was ahead, he was _really_ far ahead on this site; then Bush gets a little bump, and overnight, 150 EVs change hands. Now Kerry's coming back, and again overnight, you have 100 EVs go to Kerry. Is that a realistic picture? No, but when you wake up in the morning and want to quickly check out what the latest round of state polls is saying, all you have to do is look at his map and have a general idea of what the latest poll numbers are. Then you highlight the map and see what polling organization(s) released those polls.
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Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 12:18 PM
Response to Original message
2. Whether good or bad, STOP READING POLLS!
The fact that they're all over the place, without getting into all the technical reasons, should be enough to convince you they don't mean a fucking thing!
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wadestock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #2
13. Yes I agree....
I just see this as evidence that things will settle down rather quickly to where they were prior to the conventions, swiftboat, etc.

If Kerry is within striking distance or a bit ahead in the electoral college going into the debates....things will be looking very good.
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benburch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
4. Look at the methodology of this site.
Now, I like this site, but you have to understand its methodology.

It uses the latest polls for any state.

So, you can go from a situation where you are dealing with mostly polls by Zogby to where you are dealing with mostly polls by Gallup overnight, and whatever bias adheres to whatever poll has just been released skews the results.

As a result this one WILL show large swings in the EV, and you should expect that. Also, tiny changes in support change the EV in dramatic ways anyway, as all but two states are "Winner take all". The change from, say 49.1 % to 49.0% in Florida could cost 27 EVs.
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nycmjkfan Donating Member (209 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
5. even more change today
Kerry 239 Bush 256


http://electoral-vote.com/
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DaveinMD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. add Maryland and New Jersey
to the Kerry column and he leads. I think we all know Kerry is winning those states.
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gasperc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
11. I like it, I look at each state to see who did the poll
when I see NJ red, I say what the fuck. It's a good site to find out how the GOP is trying to manufacture momentum for Bush.

Like Walt Star has said, it useful to motivate me when I see Kerry down.

All in all, it's the web and polls, you have to take them with a grain(or jug) of salt. Only on election day we'll know if the cell phone under-representation theory is true or is the "bases" were sufficiently motivated and how the undecideds broke.

The site helps us see that something is happening in CO and SC and Kerry would be wise to invest even a pittance in these states that could be decisive.
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Worst Username Ever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 12:29 PM
Response to Original message
12. Tomorrow we will see a wide gap again
because he has not accounted for Gallop or Mason Dixie. (both flawed, but he couts all of them.)
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redsoxliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. he only does state polls
not national ones...
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Worst Username Ever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. snip
"After preparing today's update, I saw a bunch of new polls from Mason-Dixon and Gallup. I just don't have the time to do that today. I'm already spending many, many hours a day working on the site and answering e-mails. I will include these polls tomorrow. I have tried hard to answer all the serious e-mails, but they are now numbering in the hundreds per day, so I simply can't manage them. I will still try to read them all, but if I don't answer your e-mail it is not because I thought it unimportant. There are only so many hours in a day. My apologies. "


snip
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Redneck Socialist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 12:45 PM
Response to Original message
15. Ignores margin of error
I like this site but my main beef with it is that he? puts a state into bush or Kerry's column even if they are up by only one point in the latest poll. The polls from most all the states in the Barely Kerry or Barely bush column do show one candidate in the lead, but that lead is small and within that polls margin of error. That means that they are essentially tied. If you take those states out you don't have the wild daily swings in the EV count.
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democratreformed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 01:00 PM
Response to Original message
16. Arkansas tied!!!!!
Yeah!!!!! We're going canvassing this weekend.
:bounce: :bounce: :bounce:
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