Some say that so called "conservative" Republicans are good people

[depakid]

Personally, I've not seen much in that regard- maybe we could find some examples. In the 21st Century.

[stray cat]

1. If I said that about any minority group I would be labeled a bigot

[Flying Dream Blues]

8. That's different because the kind of minority group you're talking about

is assigned rather than chosen. When you choose an ideology and then choose leaders who promote and perpetrate harm to the disadvantaged, ethnic minority groups, the middle class, the environment, all women, everyone who identifies as GLBT, children and their education and sexual health, and our armed forces then I'd say you've earned the right for people to believe you're not a good person. The exceptions would be those who are too ignorant or too old to realize exactly what their party stands for.

[annabanana]

28. oh horseshit. . People CHOOSE to be "conservative" republicans..

Or rather they choose to be called conservative republicans, when what they really are are raving reationary bigots.

[BlooInBloo]

30. More reverse-racism whine please, MOAR!!!

[deep1]

46. Stop your whining

YOu don't choose a political group. I'm tired of these race card games.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

2. Senator Richard Lugar (R-IN)

Although he may be considered "moderate" by today's standards. He's the only Republican Senator who I've voted for on any kind of consistent basis. I may not agree with most of his votes but he does seem more sensible on foreign policy issues than most Republicans and I think he tries to be genuinely bipartisan.

[camera obscura]

16. Agreed.

He's a good guy, cares about constituents, and unlike some (cough John McCain, cough Lindsey Graham) doesn't go looking for media attention to justify his "bipartisan" credentials. He just votes as he sees right.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

20. Right

I don't see McCain or Graham crossing party lines that often either except maybe on the odd nominee either. I've often said that if we had to have a Republican for POTUS I would want Lugar more than anybody.

[Bluenorthwest]

27. He voted for the Defense of Marriage Act

And by the by, I've never, ever voted for a Republican. Not once.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

44. I don't defend his stance on social issues

But he is better than most republicans on foreign policy issues. He was one of the few Republicans who,unlike McCain, kept his head and called for a more cautious on the Iran election situation.

[quakerboy]

43. Thats what just enough people say

about "their" rep to keep them going. Poll it. Everyone hates congress and loves their congressman. Its a shame, when you only get two, you want to keep one who votes against our interests by far the better part of the time.

[proud patriot]

3. My Grandmother is a good Conservative Republican

she voted for Obama ... She spent her life volunteering
after she worked at an assembly plant during WWII...

She is a PETA member and National Wildlife member etc...

She is why I'm the person who I am today as she raised me
for 7 years of my most impressionable years .

I think I finally convinced her that the republican party
left her . Which is why she voted for Obama ...

Of course she's not ever been a church goer .

[Skittles]

18. sounds like she was a RINO

[tabatha]

4. The ones who saw the light and voted Obama.

I have a few friends who were republican (old school) now active democrats.

I have a friend who is still a republican but actually thinks more in the middle, but does not realize it.

[johnaries]

5. I know several, including my favorite aunt.

Unfortunately, she believes a lot of the crap on Fox News. She's not a bad person, just grossly misinformed.

[depakid]

13. Outside of family members

Although, one might wonder what your favorite aunt would think if she didn't know you, and you just turned up in her way.

Would she just as soon shoot you as look at you?

Would she let you die on a curb outside a hospital?

[johnaries]

14. Actually, my aunt is so sweet people take advantage of her

all the time.

And I know some Republicans at work that are generally nice. As long as you don't mention Welfare around them. They believe all welfare recipients are just lazy.

[depakid]

17. Hmmm

So what you're saying is that she thinks that only people on the dole ought to be kicked to the curb and left to die?

[johnaries]

35. Actually, no. It perplexes me, too. She should be a Liberal.

To be honest I always thought she was a Liberal until we actually starting talking politics.

IMHO, she is an obvious victim of the RW propaganda machine. I don't know "why" she believes the lies, even in the face of all the evidence I have presented her with.

Let's put it this way, her "most trusted" newsman is Bill O'Really. When I confront her with his lies, she simply refuses to believe it. She "wants" to believe him. The best I can figure is that it's personality-driven "faith".

We finally had to come to an agreement that we would no longer talk politics, and "agree to disagree".

It's really sad. It's like seeing a loved one join a religious cult, and you know anything you say to warn them only drives them further away.

[boppers]

6. In the 21st century?

Ya had to go and cap it, didn't you. Hm.

How about Hillary?

:evilgrin:
:hide:

[Flying Dream Blues]

7. Self-delete nt

Deleted to reply to intended poster.

[NYMountaineer]

9. Let's keep things in perspective.

Republicans aren't limited to the Rep Party or Freepers. I've got friends who are very right wing, but they're also not crazy insurrectionists.

I get flustered with them, too, but if we declare war against all of 'em, are we really that much better than the Freepers are?

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

10. A friend of mine used to say...

"One-on-one Republicans are some of the nicest people you'll ever meet. But you get three or four of them together and they want to take over the goddam world"

I've found that to be pretty much true. I have family and close friends who are staunch Republicans. We just avoid talking politics.

[AlinPA]

22. That's a good policy to avoid talking politics. If they are outspoken republicans

or conservatives I just try to quietly avoid them and try not to get involved with them. When they are family, it's hard, but sometimes you luck out and they don't talk politics either.

[depakid]

11. just curious

[Brother Buzz]

12. The last good "conservative" Republicans voted for Barry Goldwater.

They are pretty old today, but I suspect most voted for Obama than the other presidential candidate from Arizona.

[MarjorieG]

15. Party identity powerful, difficult to change, and many GOP may not like current Conservatives, but

can't switch. They are good people. I grew up with NE GOP, who are having a tough time with that identity are in denial. Their party was socially conscious and responsible, cared about the environment, so it was a lot about taxes and how we finance.

[depakid]

19. Party identity powerful- hard to disagree

Yet in terns of being a good or decent person?

We live in the 21st Century and you're sounding quite naive.

On edit- I understand so much of what you've said, yet as anyone who's ever taken on a big bully knows, at some point there's a place where ya gotta make a stand and say-

Enough.

[Prism]

21. What nonsense

Reducing people to characteristics based on labels is the quickest, surest path to bigotry.

I know quite a few conservatives and Republicans who are deeply good people who I have severe political disagreements with. It doesn't mean their ideas for the country aren't earnestly held in the belief it would make things better for everyone. They think they know what's best. I disagree. But I'm still able to understand they're good people acting in good faith.

Flipping it around a little, on DU alone I see self-described liberals acting in deeply racist, deeply sexist, deeply homophobic ways every single day.

Folks is folks.

I'm a liberal because the idea that government must intervene to ameliorate certain social and environmental problems makes sense to me. It's logical, it's where my mind is. I have my beliefs because I think they'll do the most good for the most people. But that never ever means that someone who doesn't believe similarly doesn't also believe their ideas will lead to the most good for the most people.

It's narrow-minded, intolerant, bigoted, and - yeah - fundamentalist to think otherwise.

No one has a lock on "good". Thinking otherwise is to make oneself at home in Bush's brain for the last eight years. No thanks.

[depakid]

23. So name a couple of good Republicans- ands tell us why

Beats berating the OP

[Prism]

33. My cousin for one

Small business owner, employs about 13 people. Pays them very well, provides decent health care. When the economy slowed, instead of firing anyone, he stopped drawing pay for himself. He's the first person you can call at 4 AM with an emergency. A genuinely nice guy, nice family, treats his kids well. Church-going, always participating in something or other for his local community.

He's a fiscal conservative, and in conversations with him he seems a kind of "bootstraps" Republican. One of his dearly held arguments is that government has relieved people of too much responsibility, that communities don't feel the need to do as much for others because they believe government will do it. I always tell him people aren't all like him, that it's a matter of unequal opportunity built into our class structure and education system. Decent conversations, but he's not often swayed.

When I came out to the wider framily, he was one of the first people to make my then boyfriend feel welcome at family functions. He's said he doesn't quite "understand it", but understand it or not, he'll still write out a check when I do things like the AIDS walk.

And he's just one Republican I think who is a decent person. There are others in my family and social group who are similar. He's merely the most politically vocal with me. He loves debating fiscal policy.

On a grander political front, well, Illinois isn't much a place to discuss good people in general no matter what their party. However, I've always thought former governor Jim Edgar was a decent guy. Depite being a Republican, having his issues, and giving us George Ryan, I never detected any malice or viciousness in him. Of course, http://blogs.suntimes.com/backtalk/2009/08/didnt_this_guy_edgar_learn_any.html">stories like this probably play a part in my impression. Despite Illinois' firmly blue status, the former governor is very popular and well thought of.

I really don't understand this need for binary thinking, this breakdown in thought to "us vs. them", this driving need to create others who can be villainized and dehumanized for political purposes. It seems very Rush Limbaugh to me, deeply counterproductive, terribly wrong.

I'll tell you one thing, I'd rather hang out with my cousin or a Jim Edgar than some of the posters on this board who've shared their endlessly charming thoughts about LGBT issues.

Folks is folks.

[depakid]

36. "I really don't understand this need for binary thinking, this breakdown in thought to "us vs. them"

In case you didn't realize it- or have never heard hate radio- or seen newspaper comment sections, the vast majority of these folks loathe progressives and all that they stand for. Moreover, they'll do anything in their power to prevent positive reform from occurring- be it on healthcare, the environment, media, financial and consumer regulation- you name it.

These people turned America into a nation of torturers.

Far as I'm concerned ANYONE who willingly associates with the Republican brand after all that's gone down-- and continues to go down is a person of very questionable character, and certainly no one I'd want to work with or "pal around with" -and surely no one I'd hire.

Obviously, we can't choose family members- but even that can be troublesome and quite irritating (as many DU'ers annually attest to around the holiday season).

[Prism]

37. Well, that's bigotry.

In the purest sense of the term: "(A) stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one's own."

I take humans as they come on an individual basis. All of the above you find so loathesome I've seen within self-described Democrats as well. Certainly I've witnessed Democratic politicians blocking reform, and I've seen Democratic constituents explain, excuse, and apologize for mistreatment of minorities, women, and gays. I see pure, unbridled hatred for others expressed on this website every single day. All in the name of ideology and belief. Some days I open and immediately close the site when I notice thread after thread after thread is devoted to nothing but hatred. Even if people feel it's justified hatred, it's still fairly ugly and corrodes the character and peace of mind of those who happily wallow in it.

I won't be that kind of person. Nothing anyone does, Republican or Democrat, will cause me to condemn entire groups of people and draw broad assumptions about the quality of their character. I won't do it on the basis of politics or religion or culture.

I won't be a bigot.

[depakid]

41. It's REALISM

If you want to associate with people like that- be my guest. Me, I choose to see them for who and what they are and keep as far away as possible.

And yep- it IS a character issue at this point to willingly wear the Republican brand, i.e. it's a sign of poor character to go along with corrupt, dishonest, and inhumane policies.

[Prism]

51. If it were a character issue . . .

. . . we'd probably all be in the Green party. I support the Democratic party because I believe it's the most practical way forward on the issues I care about. However, I am under no illusions. I know I'm a member of a party that is currently waging two wars that lead to countless needless deaths. I know I'm a member of a party that couldn't care less about equality under the law. I know I'm a member of a party that votes for many pieces of legislation that benefit the corporations over the workers.

I don't pretend I'm morally superior or that my political excrement comes in an especially odorless form.

I don't care for zealotry or bigotry on either side of the aisle, and I especially don't excuse ignorance and radicalism when it's cloaked in the guise of moral evolution.

There was a thread here a few months ago about a Republican firing Democrats based on their ideology. People widely condemned it and had plenty of harsh words about that kind of behavior.

But I'm supposed to see that and excuse that because the "right" people are doing it? Because they have better motivations or superior judgement?

No, I'm not that much of a hypocrite. Maybe you are. Maybe you draw pleasure from being indistinguishable from a Republican in narrow-mindedness and intolerance. But I won't go there, no matter how much I detest that party's policies. And I certainly won't blanket condemn tens of millions of people because they have different opinions from me. I don't justify hate. I battle hatred every day of my life, and I will never enable nor excuse it no matter where it comes from.

And make no mistake and be under no illusion. The attitudes you promote are nothing but hatred smothered in words and justifications. Free Republic indeed.

[deep1]

47. Look at this thread

It's so funny how some self described Democrats are so quick to defend a Republican as soon as they are stereotyped.


Do we see this type of craziness on Free Republic? How many of them will defend a Democrat? LMAO

And you wonder why can't get anywhere. I don't accept Republicans in my circle and I don't tolerate most of their viewpoints.

Screw this kumbaya madness, the title of this board is DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND.

And so many posters on this board are so quick to defend the Republicans, it's sad.

As for the lady's aunt who was against welfare, does she not know welfare helps those children? Welfare is primarily for the kids, to feed them, give them good health, if you are against welfare, you are not a true christian!

[depakid]

49. I guess I'm sayin' look around

and realize that we're in a fight.

The time may come for Marshal plans- for forgiveness, rebuilding and all of that -but not until we win the battles.

[LittleClarkie]

54. So until then you dehumanize the enemy

What a good little soldier you are...

Maybe we should come up with a really good name for them like gooks or krauts or something.

[LittleClarkie]

52. I don't quite get your second sentence

Do we see this type of craziness on Free Republic? How many of them will defend a Democrat?

What does that have to do with anything, except to suggest we should be a Free Republic on the left?

We shouldn't because they don't?

I agree with the other poster. Folks is folks. Some conservatives I can have a conversation with, others, not so much. Kinda depends.

[tabasco]

38. A "fiscal conservative" who supported the Bushes and Reagan.

LOL. I got a howl out of that.

Your cousin is either a dumbass or an evil person.

[annabanana]

29. If "conservative republican" is how you are BORN.. something you CAN'T CHANGE..

then I'd say your statement has some credence.

If, in the face of all the evidence someone chooses to be a "conservative republican", I think the OP is right on the money.

[Prism]

32. This is just silly

If someone's a conservative Republican they can't be a good person?

That's the kind of binary thinking that's half the problem in this country. It's the kind of thinking that makes disagreements into visceral, vicious division. It's what turns people into "others" who can be dehumanized and hated with impunity.

I want no part in that sort of mindset.

[LittleClarkie]

55. And how is it any better to say that

than it is for Conservatives I know to say they hate Democrats.

Why is it so hard to imagine disagreeing with someone and yet knowing that person has a basically good heart?

[Umbral]

24. Everyone who supported the Republicans and the Bush Administration have blood on their hands.

I've seen nothing in the way atonement or even contrition.

[WI_DEM]

25. believe it or not there are some good people who are conservatives and some not so nice people who

say they are liberals.

[depakid]

26. So name a couple and tell us why

Otherwise, it would seem that you're suffering from battered woman syndrome. With apologies- and respect for women who've been abused and done their best to find their way out.

[BlooInBloo]

31. I've never met one, either. If people say they exist, I'll take their word for it.

[Autumn]

34. My Son-in-law is one

in fact he gave me my favorite all time Christmas gift in 1994. Two rolls of Wipe your Tush with George Bush toilet paper, and a tin of Impeach mints that he picked up on their vacation. He is a very fair minded and caring person. He voted for Obama just because McCain was the same as Bush.

[DevonRex]

39. I really wish I could say for sure that my conservative Republican relatives

are good people. But the more they talk, the more I cringe at their beliefs. It's difficult to think of family members as not being "good people" but if they hate gays, think all Jews and Muslims and pagans should go to hell, then I can't really think of them as "good" can I?

[proud2BlibKansan]

40. Sam Brownback is basically a good hearted man

I disagree with him on just about every issue. But he does seem to be a kind and caring person.

[Skittles]

42. they can be nice on the surface

but scratch deep enough and you'll find ugly every time

[depakid]

45. You surely will

[HughBeaumont]

63. "Scratch a Lie, Find a Thief"

Always liked that line from Ray. Fitting for the GOP.

[VPStoltz]

48. I am actually developing a visceral revulsion regarding The Reicht.

[Douglas Carpenter]

50. many people form their political identity around their particular cultural background

Many people around the entire world have matured in an atmosphere where given political identifies were the norm. Many, if not most people find it difficult to step outside of the assumptions that almost everyone they know and trust also hold. This may not be correct thinking, but it is usually not conscious evil.

Thus if one talks to the rural poor of Northern Luzon, one will find a lot of very nice people who cherish the memory of Ferdinand Marcos. If one talks to ordinary Shiites in Lebanon, one will find a lot of very nice people who support Hezbollah. If one talks to people who grew in certain social settings in the United States, one will find some very nice people who support the Republican Party.

Political identity involves choice. But it is not always conscious choice. They may be somewhat guilty of not questioning assumptions that they should question. But it is not, by any means always conscious evil.

The current Republican Party may be evil. I think it is. That does not mean that all Republicans are conciously evil.

[depakid]

53. One can also find a few who fought- against tough, institutional odds with Corazon Aquino

Repeatedly.

[Douglas Carpenter]

56. a few and mostly from the middle and upper classes

Most of the rural poor in Northern Luzon from the dominant Ilocano ethnic group thought and still think Ferdinand Marcos was wonderful. It is not even unusual to find people who supported the NPA, but still liked Marcos - even if that sounds contradictory. They might have supported the NPA largely because the NPA served as the people's hand of justice in a society in which the courts are unresponsive. They might have liked Marcos, largely because they thought of Marcos as "one of them".

The point is, cultural identity and local perceptions about who people feel is "one of them" frequently has a lot more to do with with political identify than their ideology, specific positions or even what ostensibly appears to be their interest.

There are many Americans who perceive the Democratic Party is a bunch of urbane elitist. This is demostrated in part by the very poor showing Democrats have long held in rural areas versus the strong showing they have long held in urban areas.

here is a county by county map of the 2008 election results. What we see is that for the most part, but with some exceptions, urban centers went Democratic, while rural areas with some exceptions went Republican. This has happened in almost every election for several decades:



http://www-personal.umich.edu/~mejn/election/2008/

.

[depakid]

59. Therein lies the struggle

and it might be applied to most places.

Most nations struggle with deals like this- worse than us, sometimes for better reasons- sometimes for much worse.

Time comes to reckon- to deal and say sorry- We Can Do Better. This I know personally.

When I was on the lawn of Parliament, wandering about the tents- I was the tan white person with the strange accent, who no one would trust- or at least then, no one should have trusted.

Took a little bit- and maybe a nod or two from an opinion leader who had a look or a talk and said OK.

Back to the point though- the rule of law we live by isn't and has never been set in the middle of a fight. To victors go the spoils- and in terms of economics, cool science, sociology, literature, art- all the cool deals- we have what it takes to win every policy fight we get into.

There's just one thing more-

[depakid]

57. Quick addendum

For everyone- and especially for those who don't recall, don't remember- or who weren't born yet (Damn I'm getting old) Corazon Aquino was a very interesting person- a fighter who passed away recently.

There's a lot we can learn from her.

A starting point might be here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corazon_Aquino

[Douglas Carpenter]

58. well yes, her burial procession to the cemetery is going on right now at this minute

[depakid]

61. So- how about we learn?

and apply the lessons- recognizing what we have to deal with here.

You think that Republicans are nice folk?

That they won't tell you that torturing people is not just OK- but what we have to do?

[smalll]

60. Some say. "Some say?!?" -- that's a right-wing meme!

You sound like Katie Couric on one of her bad (non-Palin destroying) days!

[SeattleGirl]

62. Good thing my name isn't "Some Say"

:)

[JohnnyBoots]

64. The closest I can get are the ladies from Maine, at least they are rational, moderate Conservatives