Snopes confirmed it: Laura's a murderer!

[LTR]

http://www.snopes.com/politics/bush/laura.asp

Claim: While a teenager, future First Lady Laura Bush caused the death of a classmate in a car accident.

Status: True.

In May 2000, a two-page police report pertaining to a fatal accident that had taken place near Midland, Texas, in 1963 was made public. It contained the information that 17-year-old Laura Welch had run a stop sign, causing the death of the sole occupant of the vehicle hers had struck. According to that report, the future First Lady had been driving her Chevrolet sedan on a clear night shortly after 8 p.m. on 6 November 1963 when she entered an intersection without heeding the stop sign and there collided with the Corvair sedan driven by 17-year-old Michael Douglas. Also in the car with Laura Welch was a passenger, 17-year-old Judy Dykes.

(more)

[Bunny]

1. Was anyone doubting it?

It's been a pretty well-established fact. Although most people outside of DU seem to have no knowledge of it.

[carpe_vinum]

4. I don't know about that. (m)

Every time MSNBC and A&E run their bio programs of Laura it's always a pretty prominent feature of the segment. I'm not sure I've met anyone who didn't know the story and given where I live I'm pretty much forced to hang out with Republicans if I want to socialize.

[carpe_vinum]

2. While not a fan of the Bush clan by any means...(m)

This story isn't exactly new. It came out loud and clear during the 2000 campaign.

I suppose calling her a murderer also depends upon your personal definition of murder. A 17 year old running a stop sign probably has little intention to cause harm so perhaps a case could be made for negligent homicide, but no charges were filed.

When I consider all of the teenagers on the roads today, I suspect many of them have democrats for parents and/or may very well be democrats themselves one day. Throwing stones at this incident probably isn't much wiser than throwing them at a glass house. It looks like sour partisan grapes after a horrible tragedy.

Now if you want to talk about her husband the murderer, than I'm all ears.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

CNN referring to the gobal war with Islam... Geezus Christ what is wrong

with these freakin commentators.

And yes... perhaps Laura should have been paying attention to the signs along the way.... then she wouldn't be shackled to someone who is intent on bringing on WWIII.

[Cha]

17. So right...pickled is still not

paying attention to signs!!

[sendero]

7. I tend to agree...

... I'm all for attack-mode campaigning - but I have a hard time, especially after reading the snopes report (who I think are generally fair) that this was anything other than an accident.

Now, one might legitimately ask why she was not prosecuted - but I have a simple answer. Times were different back then, and not every accident was considered to be an act worthy of some sort of punishment or retribution. Of course, if this happened today, there might be criminal charges and there would almost certainly be a civil lawsuit, but that is where we are now.

I don't think much of Ms. Bush but while I'm all for attacking politically all over the place, her and her daughters don't look like good targets to me. I just don't see anything to be gained.

[ScreamingMeemie]

8. My problem is the lack of remorse she shows when answering questions

about it. I, for one, believe that not a day of my life would go by without thinking of it if I had hit and killed somebody. She says she's over it...it's in the past...And that is just horrid. :hi:

[sui generis]

11. that's what bothers me about it too

I think it's an entire family of sociopaths, generations. But we knew that.

[carpe_vinum]

12. She's damned if she does, damned if she doesn't. (m)

If she shows on-going remorse she's an unstable individual who can't put the past behind her. If she says she's moved on she's a heartless witch. Sadly, I know too many people who have been involved in senseless accidents like this and the internal berating with the external facade of recovery is a pretty common one.

I just don't see what her past has anything to do with what a FUBAR her husband has made of this country and the world as president.

[ScreamingMeemie]

13. Nope, sorry. I've never heard anyone say this and she would come

across as way more human if she were to express some sort of feeling. My boyfriend died when I was in high school. I didn't cause his death, but not a day goes by without me thinking about him...and a tragic loss. No pass for Laura, sorry.

It's a stretch to say that DUers would see her as unstable for expressing emotion.

[carpe_vinum]

16. I didn't say DUers...(m)

Besides, I have seen her express regret. She's never said she was glad she did it and will never give it a second thought. She says she doesn't dwell on it and tries to go on and live her life. However, it's clear that no matter what she says someone is not going to agree with her. We all react to personal tragedy in our own way, but that doesn't mean that any particular way is right or wrong.

Personally, I'd probably be inclined to beat myself up every day for the rest of my life for a stupid mistake, but then again I'd not likely be in the public eye having to answer the question every time I turned around.

I'm not defending her actions as a 17 year old, but I do think she's in a tough spot now with respect to media scrutiny. I honestly believe any reaction she expressed could be spun negatively.

[ScreamingMeemie]

19. I think if she had answered it once. That would have been enough. She

hasn't. To say it's in the past isn't handling it. I have yet to see her express remorse. I honestly think the matter would have dropped if she had addressed it openly and honestly. Media scrutiny of Laura Bush? Hahahahahaahahahahahaahahahaaha. I've yet to see that as well.

[babylonsister]

33. I agree

Accidents happen; while I can't forgive her her choice of men (bleeehhh!), this just doesn't need to be addressed. Too many other things to pick on!

[BillZBubb]

48. Laura Bush had a relationship with her victim.

Laura Bush knew the road well. Suppose, the victim had recently dumped Laura. He drove a very easy to spot Corvair. Laura Bush knew exactly what his car looked like.

Hitting that particular car on a clear night in good weather on a road she had traveled on many times is too too too much of a coincidence.

She got away with murder.

[Catholic Sensation]

52. You're a sick person

and in need of a lot of help.

[cheshire]

3. It was her ex boyfriend. He was in a Jeep w/no top or doors.

[bmbmd]

38. Actually, it was a Corvair.

You know, "Death on Wheels".

http://www.childbutcher.com/

[livinginphotographs]

45. Nader tried to warn us!

n/t

[11cents]

5. Unless you've never made a mistake while driving ....

Never run a stop sign or a red light (even inadvertently), never changed lanes without checking your blind spot, never gotten distracted and failed to see what was happening in front of you -- I think that "There but for the grace of God go I" is the best response to this particular tale. Killing somebody else through carelessness is the ultimate driver's nightmare, but it's one that just about everyone is vulnerable to, not just Creepily-Sedated-First-Ladies-To-Be.

[CBHagman]

62. You have a good point.

"...I think that 'There but for the grace of God go I' is the best response to this particular tale. Killing somebody else through carelessness is the ultimate driver's nightmare, but it's one that just about everyone is vulnerable to..."

Bingo. Most of us have made errors during driving and lived to tell the tale, having not harmed ourselves or another. Yes, I think this sort of incident could happen to anyone.

That said, I was really creeped out when I read Ann Gerhart's depiction of it in her biography of Laura Bush. Gerhart's take is strictly Laura as a victim of tragedy, someone who needed a grief counselor. Certainly it must have been damaging to her psyche, but what about the family of the youth in that other car?

Also, had an African-American youth hit young Laura Welch with a car, you can bet your bottom dollar he would have been prosecuted.

[Connie_Corleone]

6. It seems like one of those accidents

that happen when teenagers are involved. It was a horrible accident. Nothing sinister.

[Catherine Vincent]

9. That's a true story. The only people that won't believe it are

probably freepers.

[Joanne98]

10. If she was high on pot then it was MANSLAUGHTER.......

Is Judy Dykes still around? Maybe she has something to say about it?

[in_cog_ni_to]

14. She was high on some really good Pot

when that happened? OR was she drunk? Maybe a pot buyer was in her car and she was preoccupied with making a deal?
Laura the murderer!

[yellowcanine]

15. That's not murder. It was an accident. Let's not use "Drudge" headlines,

please.

[DrFunkenstein]

20. Agreed (But Bush And Cheney Have 3 DUI's Between Them)

Laura looks clean to me. Bush and Cheney not so much. But their driving is nothing compared to their policies.

[Name removed]

54. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MercutioATC]

25. Amen. It's vehicular homicide. WAY different than murder.

The exaggerations make us seem way too shrill for my liking.

[carpe_vinum]

27. I think that's what bothers me about this. (m)

There are so many legitimate policy fiascos on which to concentrate, that splitting hairs over whether or not Laura Bush has expressed the right degree of remorse for a traffic accident resulting in her being responsible for the death of a friend at the age of seventeen seems shrill. Let the Republicans go off on tangents while we stick to the message.

[G_j]

69. agreed, NOT Murder

give us a break and be factual, this ain't no tabloid

[Cheswick2.0]

28. Excuse me? It was manslaughter and reckless driving at the very least

she wasn't even charged with running a stop sign.

[Donkeyboy75]

40. You defined it for yourself.

This ain't murder.

And it's manslaughter and reckless driving at the very MOST.

[Carni]

18. We need to find similar Texas cases when Bush served as Gov

JMO But Regardless of whether, or not, this was an accident, how did other people fare while Herr bush was in office in Texas in a auto accident case where they caused the death of another after running a stop sign? I tend to think they got jail time or probation out of the deal...How would we check this out? Where might one look for similar cases in Texas on bushit's watch?

[WinterStorm]

21. Laura sold dime bags in College

Could she possibly have been smoking dope while driving?

[jukes]

22. while true, & suspicious

because it was her ex, this feels like sniping, & there are very real issues that bear more scrutiny.

[Silverhair]

23. Here we go again.

It seems that every few weeks somebody finds out about Laura's accident and thinks that they have discovered just the thing to take the Bushes down. In reality, any attempt to make political milage out of a 17 year old girl's tragic accident WILL backfire.

During Bush's campaign against Ann Richards, Richards told her staff to stay away from that story. It was common knowledge back then. But Ann was afraid that if the story hit the papers that her campaign would be blamed for it.

BTW - At the time, Laura's family were Democrats. In 1972, Laura worked as a volunterr for McGovern.

[LTR]

63. I've known about this for a long time

Just discovered that Snopes posted it, HENCE the subject line.

knock, knock. Hello?

[forgethell]

24. That's hardly murder,

but even if it is true, hasn't she paid whatever debt society thought was appropriate by now? If so, that would be a story. And in any event, it doesn't reflect on * one way or the other.

Golly, we must be more desperate than I thought if this is the best we can do. Iraq, Iraq, Iraq, economy, economy, economy. Not, TANG, CBS, or Laura's teen-age piccadilloes. Or those of the Bush twins, either. Or his grandfather, or father. Not relevant.

[July]

31. It is true, and she paid no debt.

And I don't think of running a stop sign and thereby killing another human being as a "peccadillo." It's not murder, but it is vehicular manslaughter, or something close to it.

It has no bearing on the race, but it is the topic of this thread. And it does influence some DUers' opinions of Laura Bush. It doesn't bother me at all if the truth about her is reported and discussed, especially after all the lies about the Clintons (who didn't murder anyone, though freepers like to say they did) that we had to listen to.

[forgethell]

61. Is any body

DU or FR or otherwise going to change their vote because of Laura Bush? Are they going to change their vote becasue of Teresa Heinz-Kerry's spunk ( or mouth in some opinions)? I just don't think so.

And you are right, causing the death of another human being, whatever the circumstances, is not a "peccadillo", and I apologize to anyone who was offended

[madmom]

26. why was she not at least charged with running a stop sign?n/t

[Silverhair]

30. The times were different in 1963.

Midland was a small city. The guy was Laura's boyfriend, (NOT EX-boyfriend.) and while not formally engaged, they were such a couple that all, including Laura, thought they would be married. At the time Laura was emotionally crushed by it, as any normal 17 year old girl would be. Or for that matter, as any of us would be if we accidentally caused the death of our "significant other". Local law enforcement in the early 60's had much more latitude than they do today. They would have concluded that Laura was punishing herself far more than they could, or needed to.

[noonwitch]

29. I think we need to let this one go-I'll bet she feels bad about it still

It probably haunts her-think about the things each of us still feel guilty about 20 years or more down the line. This is a bad judgement that many people have made (running a stop sign) and in her case, it cost the life of someone she knew and cared about.

I don't hate Laura Bush. I don't hate the twins. I don't see a need to keep reminding her of something that was likely very traumatic for her at the time.

[Malva Zebrina]

32. I agree--an accident when she was a teen needs not to be rehashed

however, if she was as stricken with grief, you would think she had something in her soul that changed with the realization that she caused the death of another human being.

I would think that experience was something of some soul searching and some degree of growing up or maturing even at the age of seventeen. Yet she continues to support her husband's murderous policies, never ever giving condolences to the widows, widowers, sons, daughters, some of them seventeen years old as cold as any iceberg.

Never recognizing the slaughter of teenagers and thousands of others who were innocents also, in Iraq, due to her despicable
husband and his lies. And she raises thousands of thousands of dollars so that he may continue his lies and she can continue her cushy do nothing life.

The accident when she was seventeen that resulted in the death of her boyfriend did not change her nor affect her to the point where she has retained any degree of understanding or compassion. She latched onto George at the age of thirty after a mediocre few years spent working.

After that she did nothing.

She still has done nothing that shows a sincere concern for the plight of suffering humanity. She has raised two spoiled brats who apprently have no idea of any one else on the planet but themself and their groups of groupees that follow them around to the many parties
,

She is now in her late fifties, and this is what she is raising thousands of dollars for--murder and she behaves as if it is all behind her--why should she bother her beautiful mind with it to quote her mother-in-law who raised her maniac husband to be a sociopathic narcissist.


Apparently her experience, though in the past, did not cause any type of soul searching or realization of the finality of death and how it effects families. She is a willing participant in more death , in more slaughter, and in more greed.

[Bridget Burke]

35. It probably was an accident--but was she encouraged....

to do any soul-searching at the time? What if she really wanted to talk about it? It was a horrible event, after all.

Or was she told that everything was being taken care of; she should just put it behind her. Her father had discussed it with the judge. And her mother had discussed it with the family doctor--who wrote a prescription. So she took the pills & tried to stop thinking.

Did she really want to be a teacher? Well, in those days, it was an accepted stopgap until a husband was found. And the pot helped in the "not thinking" bit.

Was librarianship really the answer? Why wasn't she interested in any of the guys she met? Was this Bush kid really the answer? Why ask questions? Just take a pill & smile.

[Malva Zebrina]

42. I don't know, but there comes a time when one becomes an adult

so that, especially in one that is educated, and has received a higher degree that the average person, when one can no longer, blame it on someone else--the parents for example. At the age of thirty, bemoaning that no one ecouraged her to talk about it, is kind of wishy washy. She certainly had plenty of money with which to pursue some sort of therapy if it still haunted her.

I know it sounds harsh and non yielding or understanding, but I am not willing to let Laura off the hook when she has had a very good life but goes about the country on our money, raising lots of money for more wars and death and destruction.

She had not done a single thing in her four years, that would signify her compassion for the weak, the poor, the desperate and the needy. Yet she is billed as the nation's "comforter".

Afganistan and the farce of supplying sewing machines, donated by Singer, and material donated by some other corporation, to women so they could sew their little daughters a school uniform, was nothing more than cheap propaganda taking advantage of those war debilitated peoples. The "dollars" that little American children sent, were never accounted for. She had not mentioned them once since then, nor has she gone to Afganistan to support the women or the little girls and to see first hand the results of that initiative, although she does say, after another woman has gone to visit Afganistan, such as Hillary, that she wants to go there, too!

I just cannot find it in my heart to feel sorry for her.

[Cuban_Liberal]

34. What a ridiculous, Drudge-like headline!

'Murder' has a specific legal meaning, and a kid who runs a stop sign and causes a fatal accident is not a murderer! Aren't we supposed to be better than the Repugs?

:wtf:

[DeepModem Mom]

36. Agree Laura is probably haunted by this, but ALWAYS imagine if was Hillary

Rove would have seen to it that Hillary was defined by that event forever; we would never have heard the end of it. She would not be Senator from NY; Bill would probably not have been President, had he been married to Hillary, and she had been responsible for an incident such as this.

[BillZBubb]

50. Laura Bush isn't haunted by it at all. That's projection.

She's a sociopath just like her husband. She has no trouble pimping for one of the biggest killers in our history. The deaths of those not close to her have no meaning to her. She's garbage.

[Doohickie]

37. snopes does NOT call Laura a murder:

"So 17-year-old Laura Welch did cause the death of a friend by running a stop sign, but to see more in the story than that is to surrender oneself up to baseless imaginings."

Careful about "baseless imaginings"; stuff like SBVT emerge!

[George W. Dunce]

41. Hello!!!! she ran the stop sign

That is a crime, was she ever put in hand cuffs? has she ever seen the inside of a cell? and wasn't the 17 year old victim her ex boyfriend? Bill Jankwhatever went to jail for the same thing this past summer. I can honestly say that I have never killed anyone it's a shame neither occupants of the white house can say the same.

[Doohickie]

53. But that does NOT make her a murderer.

And it is not a "crime", it is a "traffic infraction".

My seventeen-year-old did something similar a few weeks ago. No one was injured, thankfully. He was issued a citation and allowed to drive home.

If you go for excessive overreaction, go over to the Repugs. They invented that sort of thing.

Let's keep this in perspective, folks.

[Zorra]

65. Right. It's only murder if she meant to do it - and only she knows if she

intentionally killed her boyfriend.

[Donkeyboy75]

39. No matter how you slice it, that wasn't murder.

Look it up.

Silly posts like this make all of us look dumb.

[George W. Dunce]

43. While I do not agree with "murder"

vehicular homicide seemed to be in order. Just like Bill Jankawhatever. The sign is there for a reason and to say she was not at fault is just plain wrong. She was driving a vehicle and ignored the stop sign, this resulted in the death of someone in another vehicle. Sounds like vehicular homicide to me. Some one posted an article from Texas this week about a judge that handed down an unusual sentence for someone who had been involved in a accident that left anther person dead. I guess it's a good thing Lura didn't have to go in front of him. Deepraved indifferance at best.

[Donkeyboy75]

44. First, vehicular homicide is different from homicide.

Also, Janklow had a history of both excessive speeding and excessive bragging about speeding. His attitude played a role in his charges too.

Of course she was at fault here. But attacks on her look silly...especially when there are things happening today that are much more important - and actually involved the decisions the president makes!

[HEIL PRESIDENT GOD]

46. Michael Douglas and Judy DYKES!!!?

Sounds like she was takin' out a coupla libruls.

[Chelsea Patriot]

47. Why do you think the BFEE chose Miss Welch for Smirk's wife?

Because Pappy and Ma Grizzly knew Laura wouldn't be bothered by their oldest shoat's homicidal, sadistic tendencies.

She's a murderer herself.

Laura Welch Bush has no more respect for human life then her husband, or her In-Laws.

How in the flatlands of Texas with the distinctive headlights of an oncoming Corvair could there be an "accident" of running a stop sign?

Wasn't Laura lying in wait for Michael Douglas' approaching Corvair, a car she was very familiar with?

Didn't the future First Lady believe herself to be pregnant at the time, and hadn't Michael Douglas given her the brush-off?

Every member of the Bush Clan is a sociopath whether they are born into the family or marry into it.

[Doohickie]

56. Oh, puleeze!

You think a seventeen-year-old could perfectly time a T-bone of her own car, doing 50 mph, and another car doing the same speed?

What do you think she is? A stunt driver?


You guys are seriously delusional.

[Doomsayer13]

58. god, statements like this boggle the mind

you should be ashamed of yourself, accusing a 17 year old girl of engineering a car crash. It's sad and disgusting.

[cyr330]

49. I always knew that

But again, our "liberal media" didn't give this any coverage. Her bf had recently broken up with her, and she "accidentally" killed him with her car.

Now, if Hillary Clinton had murdered her ex-bf with a car, a gun, a knife, or whatever, the press would have crucified her. She even got blamed for Vince Foster's suicide.

Here we have the first lady (who of course wouldn't have the grand title of first lady had her hubbie not stolen the election) who has actually KILLED someone, and she's getting a free pass. She's disgusting, and she should be in jail.

[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TommyO]

55. Does anybody find it ironic

that the victim's car was the focus of one of Nader's projects: "Unsafe at Any Speed?"

[Doomsayer13]

57. No need to dig up this corpse

it was a tragic accident, which I'm sure given the chance, Laura Bush would not have liked to repeat.

[George W. Dunce]

59. here is what bothers me

What was her punishment don't give me she was 17 , other people in her place would not have been so lucky. Not even probation? Are you kidding me? I broke the windshield of my neighbors old truck with a rock. This truck had not worked in years in fact it had two tires missing he called the police and I was ARRESTED for breaking a windshield that was valued at over $100. Then man didn't like my family and made big deal of it. I was sentenced to PROBATION for one year over a windshield, yet she kills someone by RUNNING a stop sign and it's mistake, F THAT!. Mistakes cost the rest of us only I guess. I was 14 at the time, I also had to pay for the windshield and write a letter of apology.

[VOX]

60. Wouldn't use the term "murder." But imagine if Hillary Clinton had...

an incident like this in her past! We would be reminded of it night and day by the right-wing talking heads.

As it is, the right wing makes countless remarks and sick jokes about the Teddy Kennedy incident in 1969.

[GaryL]

64. How 'bout if she was drunk.

She had the record scrubbed just like the pretender had his scrubbed. I got this from some folks inside the Texas judicial system and they seemed to suggest it's common knowledge. Now as far as the term 'murder', that's used today in reference to someone climbing behind the wheel of a car while under the influence and killing another. You decide.

[grasswire]

66. and where.....

...is Judy Dykes today? She would be the only one who knows what happened, aside from Pickles.

[DemDogs]

67. Leave this one alone. A real tragedy

She was a kid. Leave it be.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

68. cover up

.