Kerry needs to ANNOUNCE a new IRAQ policy NOW!

[Cartooner]

Kerry needs to set a date certain to exit. There will be those who criticize by saying "Won't those who died fighting the war have died in vain?" ... The answer is..."Do we want MORE to continue to die in this WRONG WAR? Would THAT justify the deaths of those who HAVE died? We are occupiers. We got rid of the tyrant; but now, because of Bush's VIET NAM, all hell has broken loose."

What will result from our setting an exit date?
1. Many Iraqi's will be glad to say "good-bye".
2. There MIGHT be a civil war... but, it's not our fight, it's theirs.
3. Al Qaida might gain a foot-hold. If they do, we need to take them out wherever we find them. WE'RE OVER THERE NOW... and Al Qaida operates by kidnapping, ambushes and car-bombings. We're not successful with taking them out. If we were, they'd be gone.
4. We need to concentrate on getting bin Laden.
5. We're trying to set up a pseudo-democracy. That's foolish; it MUST be something THEY want... not something WE want. People WE put into power makes a mockery of letting THEM choose, anyway.
6. We should tell neighboring countries: Saudi Arabia, Iran, Turkey, Syria that we'll be leaving (on that exit date). They'd BETTER pull their insurgent contingents out, if they don't want anarchy there which could spill over into THEIR countries.
7. John Kerry would be able to save further lives and rebuild our military.
8. Money we've been throwing down that hell-hole could be better spent relaiming our own economy.
9. We could begin re-building our relations with other countries of the world.
.... and
10. We could better focus our efforts against our REAL enemies, instead of that little country that's about half the size of Texas.

As Garrison Keillor has said so eloquently:
"... it's 9/11 that we keep coming back to. It wasn't the 'end of innocence,' or a turning point in our history, or a cosmic occurrence, it was an event, a lapse of security. And patriotism shouldn't prevent people from asking hard questions of the man who was purportedly in charge of national security at the time." But 9/11 was NOT connected to Iraq.

And so, I'm asking those hard questions NOW... WHY CAN'T WE CALL THE IRAQ WAR BUSH'S VIET NAM?... THAT'S WHAT IT IS. And why can't John Kerry depart from Bush's stupid philosophy that has us in that endless bloodbath quagmire? ... HE MUST DO IT!

[aquart]

1. Do you understand ANYTHING about international relations?

WE INVADED. WE ARE RESPONSIBLE.

It isn't anybody else's job.

However since we will never be allowed to mend what we broke.....the only possible opportunity for getting out is a change of leadership.

I honestly don't believe it works for Kerry to publicly undermine the current US government, as much as it deserves it.

And Kerry doesn't know what he'll find or what the situation will be when he gets in. To set himself in stone now is to handcuff himself. It's ridiculous.

Wanting him to come up with a plan for an unwinnable war is not doing him a favor.

Tell you what. Ask George for a plan.

[Cartooner]

4. OF COURSE I UNDERSTAND... this is BUSH'S WAR

In case you didn't notice, this was wrong wrong wrong... We invaded BECAUSE OF THAT IDIOT WE HAVE IN THE WHITEHOUSE.... Is HE the one you wish to defend? .. I SURE AS HELL DON'T ...

MOREOVER, the Iraqi people don't want us there. ...

They can pick up the pieces BETTER THAN WE CAN.

What we're picking up are U.S. BODIES. ...

THAT'S WHAT I UNDERSTAND...

[Cartooner]

10. I DIDN'T SET THAT EXIT DATE... But Kerry should do so

He HAS said we'll exit in 4 years... THAT'S AN EXIT DATE. Frankly, I think it should be sooner. But, his judgement is what he'll have to live with.

Anyway... the EXIT DATE is something he should POUND HOME!!!

[stldemocrat]

14. I'm with you

We need to get out of there, and Kerry needs to go with what he *really* feels and say he will get us the heck out of Iraq.

[IndianaGreen]

6. Well, since the Brits are withdrawing from Iraq beginning in October

I think that the US will be left holding a well-deserved bag!

See this thread for the UK troop pullout:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x839088

Britain to cut troop levels in Iraq

Jason Burke, chief reporter
Sunday September 19, 2004
The Observer

The British Army is to start pulling troops out of Iraq next month despite the deteriorating security situation in much of the country, The Observer has learnt.
The main British combat force in Iraq, about 5,000-strong, will be reduced by around a third by the end of October during a routine rotation of units.

The news came amid another day of mayhem in Iraq, which saw a suicide bomber kill at least 23 people and injure 53 in the northern city of Kirkuk. The victims were queueing to join Iraq's National Guard.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1307980,00.html

[Rabelais]

8. "we" didn't invade, "we" are not responsible

Bush did.
If YOU feel responsible then YOU go enlist.

[hansolsen]

13. What if Kerry announces new plans for Iraq that accelerate ending the

war? Can you support that??

[Cartooner]

15. BUSH has said he can't see an end to this thing

KERRY can show he's brighter, a better leader, can keep America safer, and most importantly can be a better president if he DISAGREES with this WRONG war of Bush's and

states that WE MUST SET AN EXIT DATE.

Kerry can say "I've been through a VIET NAM and I know one when I see it. My opponent HAS NOT ... he only knows ONE thing... that he DOESN'T know how to end the war."

[Upfront]

2. Agree

Will he do it? Doubt it.

[whistle]

3. But, there is so much oil in Iraq that if the U.S can just get a...

...cooperative government set up and U.S. corporations can be secure and keep their presence there, with 20% of the known world oil reserves under Iraq and all of the profits flowing into American invester owned pockets, the Humvee business will be set for the next 50 years minimum. :freak:

[billbuckhead]

5. Iran would defacto control 40% the country in a month

Allawi could be the mayor of Baghdad for a year or two.

How many refugees will we take in? This just pull out scenario would be unrealistic and would make the world incredibly dangerous. George Bush has been a genius of sorts at getting America stuck in a quagmire. Furthermore, Wall Street has already leveraged the oil we're stealing.

[Carolinian]

7. Kerry would have to be in office to see just what he is faced with before

he can make any commitments. I'm afraid we cannot pull out until the region is stable.

[nicktom]

19. Unless we pull out, how will the region EVER be stable?

Would Iran try to take over? Probably. Will there be a civil war? Probably. Until Iraq freely, even post civil war, choses their way of government there is no chance of stability in Iraq, let alone the rest of the middle east.

I agree this is GWB's mess. But it seems to me that GHWB started this by keeping the U.S. in SA after gulf war 1. Had we not been there 911 might never have happened.

Having said all of that, I'm not sure it would help Kerry prior to being elected to endorse the original posters ideas. But I am tempted because it has become so ugly over there and only promises to get worse.

[Carolinian]

23. THAT is the quagmire. But even so, we (Bush) created the mess and

we simply cannot abandon those poor people in their present state. I feel we need to bring other nations to the table and then perhaps together we can begin to sort out a way of ending this miserable affair.

[Pirate Smile]

9. I was a "we broke it so we need to fix it" person but it is clear now

that we can't.

The focus of our policy needs to be to make sure it can't become another breeding ground for AQ.

Baghdad Bush keeps trying to emphasize that Iraq is on its way to democracy and freedom.

Kerry should emphasize that the security of this country is his number one priority and Iraq needs to be viewed through that prism not the faulty rose colored and delusional glasses that the people running this Administration have been using on Iraq.

The sad thing is it wasn't a breeding ground for AQ before but it is now.

Answers? I don't have them.

What a friggin disaster.

I was against the damn thing before it ever happened but the utter incompetence of this Administration has even shocked me.

[OneBlueSky]

25. I was also a "we broke it, we need to fix it" proponent . . .

but this thing has become a total disaster . . . every day we stay there costs us more in lives (both American and Iraqi), dollars, world prestige, and credibility . . . Kerry's best bet may be to announce that BushCo has fucked things up so badly that our only option is to get the hell out ASAP . . . hell, it won't lose him any more votes than he's losing with his current "Bush lite" position . . . might actually gain him some . . .

[dreadneck]

11. Maybe the insurgents will get the message...

if we just use enough CAPITAL LETTERS.

[Cartooner]

17. Maybe the American VOTER will get the message if . . .

Kerry has a policy that can be noticeably different from the idiot who is in the Whitehouse.... Wouldn't that be something...

I'm an old debate coach... I do understand international relations...and I also understand DEBATING...

If you think agreeing with Bush is gonna win this thing for Kerry... I have news for you.

[hansolsen]

12. I tried to go down this road yesterday. Beware DU war supporters --

they have their flame throwers out. Of course, I happen to agree with you, and so does the whole campaign team apparently. See today's WP:

Link: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A31726-2004Sep18.html

[paulk]

16. Disagreeing with the immediate pullout scenario

does not make one a "war supporter".

[Cartooner]

18. DID I SAY IMMEDIATE? ...

Could you please read my posts... a DATE CERTAIN... is a DIFFERENT policy than BUSH'S ...

What Kerry needs very badly is to SHOW he has a POLICY... and NOT an AGREEMENT with Bush.

Many people find it very WEAK of Kerry to say, "Don't ask ME for a policy... ASK The President." That doesn't show Kerry's ability to KNOW WHAT TO DO...

People vote for strength and decisions... not for "ask the other guy" stuff.

[Protected]

24. Bush has already spun the "pull out on this date" scenario

It goes something like this (paraphrasing): "The evil doers and freedoms haters will just wait until that day plus one to unleash their evilness. This is not the type of message we want to give to our enemy."

But I do agree that Kerry needs to get his Iraq policy out there to the voters. Probably he needs something that can be said in under 15 seconds so that the evening news people can play it without much effort on their part. Bush is an expert at this stuff so I don't understand why Kerry or his people still can't figure it out. The spin from the Bush campaign ("Kerry has seven different positions on Iraq") is just killing him, in my humble opinion.

[hansolsen]

20. I agree with that, and was not referring to your post specifically. I am

just reacting to other posters who deeply resent direct criticism of Kerry's currently stated plans for Iraq.

I think many DU bloggers are too dug in supporting Kerry's current Iraq plans and are not open to the possibility he will radically change those plans before this campaign is over.

I further suspect there is a cohert of DU bloggers who are card carrying members of the Joe Lieberman / DLC wing of the party who would fall off their stool if Kerry really starts bashing the Iraq war as bad policy. Just my opinion.

[Nancy Waterman]

21. I think Kerry needs to divide the country into three parts

A very loose federation, each part with its own laws and customs. Turkey will just have to deal with having Kurdistan next door. It is better than a civil war. The three federated sections can share the oil wealth/economic issues collectively but be independent religiously and culturally. The US can seal the borders til they get it all together and give them some money to pay LOCAL contracotrs to do reconstruction. Let Sistani organize his troops for an army and a police force and have sharia law for his people. Let the Kurds do their thing. And let the Sunnis have a secular Islamic republic.

[hansolsen]

22. Good, now we are discussing real alternatives in Iraq. thanks. N/T

[tedzbear]

26. It's too late.

He already let * frame the issue on his terms and to change course will only make Kerry look flip floppy.