Russia: Obama stopped a "second cold war".

[grantcart]

While many of President Obama's foriegn policy initiatives are still early in process and point to a change in tone and engagement, US/Russia relations have experienced a significant and immediate turn around.

Russia's reaction to the Nobel Peace Prize is an example of the 180 degree change in their relationship.

Russia is now helping on a number of multilateral diplomatic areas, most importantly on developing a broad front with Iran. The reduction of tensions with Iran will ultimately have a significant impact on Israel/Palestine relations. Few would have predicted that the US/Russia relationship could have improved this much this quickly, and for that alone the President deserves recognition.

Russia on Nobel Peace Prize: Obama thawing 'second cold war'

http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/1009/p06s13-woeu.html

Moscow - Russia is one place where US President Barack Obama's influence has perceptibly moved the needle away from Bush-era frostiness, dubbed by some a 'second cold war', toward a new dialogue and hopes for better cooperation.

In Moscow, the reaction to the news of Mr. Obama winning the Nobel Peace Prize was surprised, but welcoming.

"It's hard to see how he's done anything in a few months that merits a Nobel Prize," says Pavel Zolotaryov, deputy director of the official Institute of USA-Canada Studies in Moscow. "Yet it seems logical. It reflects the world's support for his promises to move in a new direction, and hope that he will have the strength to see it through."

Obama has convinced Russian President Dmitri Medvedev to sign on to his vision of working toward a nuclear weapons free world, and the two have pledged to deliver a major new strategic arms reduction treaty by the end of this year. At a Kremlin summit meeting in July, the two leaders hit it off and agreed to a full "reset" of the vexed US-Russia relationship. And last month, Obama appeared to deliver on that pledge by unilaterally shelving Bush-era plans to station antimissile defenses in Poland and the Czech Republic, which had for several years been the single biggest strategic irritant between Moscow and Washington.

"In recent years, our relations had just been getting worse and worse; it was like a dialogue between the blind and the deaf," says Elina Kirichenko, a North America expert at the official Institute of World Economy and International Relations in Moscow. "But Obama has turned that around. At least he stopped making harsh statements that anger Moscow, and made an effort to understand Russia's feelings and concerns."

[Cha]

1. Amazing what opening up lines of communication,

tearing down Defense Missile Shields, and not treating people like your enemy will do.ya:think:

[grantcart]

6. Obama is known for his speaking ability

It turns out his ability to listen is even better.

[Cha]

7. Yes, he's definetly a

twofer. Able to communicate a brilliant Mission Statment and always listening for ways to find common ground with the other heads of state who have a stake in our Planet, too.

[roguevalley]

18. medvedev *loves* Obama.

He just beams when he sees him. I grew up with nuclear bomb drills and we had food in the cupboard that was designed to wait out the radiation. It was mostly lemon flavored drops and dry biscuits if I remember. Ah, the good old days.

[Cha]

19. Lol, I've seen those

"Beamers" of which you speak!:D

These developements with Russia are almost surreal after the last 8 years especially, and the previous decades where we always had to have an enemy. I don't remember the "nuke bomb drills" but I saw Blast From The Past so I can imagine:)

But, you're up there closer to Russia, eh?

[roguevalley]

30. I hear you can see it from your porch. :-D :-D :-D Unfortunately,

I have some trees in the way. ;)

[bertman]

20. I remember lots of canned goods.

[BlueMTexpat]

34. When I was a teenager in the 50s, my mother signed my sister

and me up to participate in what was then known as the "Ground Observer Corps." What we were supposed to do was to watch the skies during our alloted time assignments and if we saw any aircraft, we were supposed to call a number where "someone" would verify that the aircraft was legitimately in that spot at that time. My mother's motive was not so much because she believed that anything bad would really happen (she was an iconoclast even in that era) but because she wanted us to pull weeds in the garden and figured that this would be a two-fer.
The GOC was operational in our area because, under one theory, the Russians (alluded to in tones similar to *Co-era terrorist talk) were supposedly going to overfly the Canadian corridor to bomb the headwaters of the Missouri River, and by doing so, thus pollute the entire Missouri-Mississippi drainage (at least that of the Mississippi below Saint Louis).
Both the US and Canada took this potential threat seriously enough that they cooperated in building a radar defense (the Pinetree Line). For an overview, check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinetree_Line My East Coast born-and-raised husband (whom I did not meet until 1980) actually performed his military service in the 50s in one of these bases and we drove out to visit its location (the base itself was abandoned long ago) during a cross-country driving trip last year.
Those years also saw the rise of the John Birch Society, particularly in the western part of my state. Then it was just a fringe group. Based on the rants and actions of the Republican Party today, the JBS has since gone mainstream. I would never have believed it and literally do not recognize today's Republican Party when it emulates such lunatics.
And yes, there were quite a few people in my area who built so-called bomb shelters and kept canned goods in them. As most now know (and those with military experience knew even then), such shelters would have been totally inadequate.

**********
I also believe that the Nobel Committee (Norway is a lot closer to the former USSR and definitely has more vivid memories of the Cold War era) had Obama's actions towards Russia very much in mind, along with lots of others.

**********
Another personal aside: I worked with several Russian colleagues as part of an international project. One of them was the daughter of a member of the Russian diplomatic mission to the UN in NYC during the Nixon era. Given our respective backgrounds, it was a wonder to us both not only that we were colleagues who respected and liked each other, but that we found that we had so much in common. That was also true of the others. We are all still good friends and I am so happy to see that Obama is so full of common sense. What a lot of wasted lives and wasted years!

[tabatha]

39. +100

You nailed it.

[Chulanowa]

33. Yeah, it's amazing how useful talking to people is!

it's not just for cheese-eating surrender monkeys anymore.

[malletgirl02]

2. JFK

I know the stakes weren't nearly as high as during the Cuban missile crises, when this was happening a few weeks ago I could help but think of the similarities.

[Withywindle]

17. Yup.

I don't know how old you are, but I was a teenager in the 80s and I had frequent nightmares about nuclear war. And crazy old fart Raygun making jokes about "we start bombing in 5 minutes" and "the Evil Empire" were grade-A nightmare fuel.

None of us Cold War kids got a real childhood in the Victorian-idealized sense. As soon as we learned such a thing as nuclear war was possible -- which was in early elementary school for most of us--we lost our illusions of adults as benevolent gods, because no kid with a brain thinks their parents or teachers or anyone could possibly protect us from THAT, no matter how much they might want to. And this is several generations worth - my dad's a Boomer, he remembers "duck and cover" - and knew all along that was utter bullshit, you only needed to see one mushroom cloud on a newsreel to know that!

[bertman]

22. most of the kids I knew didn't really think about it enough to think about lost illusions.

We were just kids and had kid things on our little minds. A blessing, I'm sure.

I grew up in the 50's and 60's. We did the drills in school and learned about fallout shelters, but it still had a fantastical quality to it for me. I remember thinking about those tiny eight-foot long by eight-foot wide by eight-foot high "fallout shelters" we read about and wondering where you would use the toilet if you were in there with your parents and brother and sister and two months worth of food and water and sleeping bags, etc. Never could get my head around it. But didn't worry about it either. Just went on being a kid.

In retrospect those were some crazy times.

[Withywindle]

27. In the 70s and 80s, we thought about it. A lot.

Look at the pop culture of my generation. Go below the surface to the good stuff. I'm the generation of "London Calling" and 'The Day After.' I'm the kid who was 8 years old and taking notice of TIME magazine for the first time, and picking up that one about Jonestown with all the hundreds of dead bodies on the cover.

Whatever "being a kid" means to you, for me, it includes these things. (When I was in 4th grade, we PLAYED "Jonestown." We made grape Koolaid and then fell down "dead.") So nuclear annihilation? A serious part of my life as a jr high kid. At 13, I sincerely did not believe I would ever see 18.

[DangerousRhythm]

35. Very true... I had the nuclear nightmares too.

Born in 1974... I watched The Day After when it aired. I can only be thankful they never showed Threads on TV or I'd have been traumatized that much worse, haha!

Even my favorite music described a dim nuclear future. It's not like we could really escape it, I guess.

[ArbustoBuster]

44. Ah, but they did show Threads on TV.

It was shown on PBS when I was a teenager. Be glad you didn't see it, it gave me nightmares for weeks.

On edit: I looked it up because I was curious. It was broadcast on PBS in 1985.

[DangerousRhythm]

50. Oof, glad I missed it!

I saw it only a few years ago and it was so, so grim... much more so than The Day After in my opinion!

[martymar64]

53. Threads was an extremely grim movie

I grew up with the nuclear fears as well, everyone was waiting for the war to start in Germany at the Fulda gap.

[redqueen]

42. Oh yes, we did.

War Games, Threads, Man at C&A, 99 Luft Balloons, Minutes to Mindnight, Russians, Two Tribes... and all the anti-war songs.

[Withywindle]

56. Yeah, some people think of 80s pop culture as 'apolitical' but it really wasn't, not at all.

It was just very dark thematically under all that glitter and big hair. Less hopeful than the 60s - we just really believed we were all gonna die.

God, "99 Luft ballons" made me cry.

[redqueen]

59. It was much less apolitical than now actually.

We were deluged with political songs back then. Reagan and Thatcher alone inspired so many...

Games Without Frontiers
Biko
Dear God
The Message
All She Wants to Do is Dance
The End of the Innocence
Born in the USA
Under Cover of the Night
Bonzo Goes to Bitburg
Rock the Casbah
Why?
Small Town Boy
Telegraph Road
Brothers in Arms
Sunday Bloody Sunday
Pride in the Name of Love
Beds are Burning
Luka

[AllyCat]

47. I remember completely breaking down in tears at 12 years old with my mom

because I was afraid of all of us being blown to bits or dying a hideous death from radiation or nuclear winter. That was the late '70s. It was on my mind daily.

[ChickMagic]

54. I did that too, AllyCat

I did the duck and cover drills and 2 of our neighbors bought bomb
shelters. When I went hysterical because we didn't have one, Dad
took me downtown and showed me the huge concrete bunker. He said
we would go there.

I used to pray every single night that we would all die at the
same time so none of us would have to suffer.

I had just lost my little brother around that time, so the
nightmares I had every night continue to this day.

[Withywindle]

57. Me too.

I remember reading about a huge anti-nuke demonstration - this was 1980, I think? I would have been 10? - and crying because we lived in the middle of nowhere and I couldn't go. I think that in that "I am the center of the universe" child way, I really thought it would make all the difference if I just could.

I had something of a grasp of the stakes of nuclear war. My dad was into science and I picked his brain. There was a story about Hiroshima in my 6th-grade reading textbook. I had a vivid imagination. I cried about this a lot.

[a la izquierda]

23. I was a kid in the 80s

not quite a teenager (I was born in 77) and I too had nightmares about nuclear war...with B*sh in office, the dreams periodically returned, particularly in relation to North Korea.

[Withywindle]

25. Same here.

The Shrub brought all that fear roaring back - another proudly anti-intellectual know-nothing cowboy in power over The Button, and not even anywhere near as smart and savvy as Reagan (which is SO not saying much). He managed to make Reagan look GOOD, which was not easy!

I was born in '69, to politically aware parents. I don't remember ever believing in adult authority as something worthwhile in and of itself, because, hello, Nixon was the ultimate Adult Authority and yet my parents' well-deserved lack of respect for him was obvious to me even before I was fully potty trained. Lord knows they talked about it all the time.

But Bush made Reagan look good, just as Reagan had made Nixon look good. Doesn't mean any of them WERE good. And it doesn't mean I'll rest easy until I know ALL nuclear weapons, including (especially?) ours, are gone forever from the world.

Remember the Bush/Kerry debates? When Kerry was talking about the dangers of unaccounted-for nuclear weapons going rogue throughout the world, and Bush HAD NO CLUE WHAT HE WAS TALKING ABOUT and tried to bullshit his way through it like a college fratboy who passed out over the Cliffs Notes the night before exam time?


Yeah.

[OhioBlue]

31. Wow - I had those nightmares too!

I can remember them quite vividly. I was born in '72. My parents divorced somewhere around my 5th birthday and I lived with my dad... longing for my mom... She was always very loving and did get us every weekend...

But the nightmares.. I can remember exactly... it was driving with my mom, seeing the mushroom cloud in back of the car, scared and trying to outrun it and then feeling the heat, we lost and were soon to die.

I remember watching Reagan as a kid... I remember when he rolled out "star wars"... I remember being scared.

I had those nightmares for years. I'm sure it was a combination of things in my young psyche.. but that atomic bomb crap was straight from listening to Reagan.

[Withywindle]

32. We are totally on the same page.

I was born in 69 and my parents are still together...but otherwise.

I remember being little - I remember I loved the Peanuts books and remember a strip where safety was defined as that feeling where you're napping in the backseat of the car while your parents are up front and knowing you're safe because the grownups are in charge.

And I remember thinking, "Yeah but when The Bomb comes, it'll kill my parents too. They can't help me then." I was little and the idea of them dying upset me more than the idea of my own death (Still does, frankly, although I'm 40)

[1badjedi]

46. Ahh the 80's

"Takes a second to say goodbye, say goodbye oh oh oh"

[vaberella]

3. Thanks or the post GC. I can't tell you how much I adore my Pres.

And when I heard he was successful in doing this. I was definitely impressed. Next stop Iran...this is going to be an interesting 7 more years.

[phoenixriz]

9. Obama's gift of Active Listening Skills

Obama has the gift of active listening skills which encourages an open dialog with the world. He isn't thinking of the next thing he is going to say but instead in his calm steady manner with good eye contact and openness provides a safe environment for others to open up and express their concerns. In the last 8 years countries were hurt, fearful, and angry. The last administration was a closed door; no need trying to talk with them.

It reminds me of Obama's days at Harvard when everyone had their own agenda during meetings of the Law School Journal. He listened to each person who had contrasting concerns. By the end of the meeting the students felt that he had agreed with them. Obama has a calming inner peace that radiates goodness, integrity and honesty. Thats not to say he doesn't have inner turmoil. He just hides it well. It's ashame that some Americans can't see that.

[Tarheel_Dem]

28. +1

[ProSense]

4. Medvedev appears really willing to cooperate with Obama. Great. n/t

[treestar]

5. Remember the mini-scandal over Hillary's Reset Button?

It looks like that was a tempest in a teapot.

This is great news. Russia and the U.S. getting along! Awesome!

When I was a kid, the Russkies were the big bad guys!

[BlooInBloo]

8. "it was like a dialogue between the blind and the deaf,"" - Forgot "the dumb".

[seminal]

10. No one is quoted in the article as calling it a "second cold war"

The Russian-American relationships were certainly deteriorating while Bush was President, but the journalist used a shocking headline.

[grantcart]

12. Russians have been comparing it to the cold war for some time

Russia has been planning to start reciprocating tit for tat cold war type engagement if the defense shield was not abandonded:

For example:
http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0729/p01s05-woeu.html

In what experts say were a series of calculated leaks to Moscow newspapers last week, the Kremlin let the world know what such retaliation might look like. It could come in the shape of medium-range nuclear missiles based in the Russian Baltic enclave of Kaliningrad and targeted on European capitals. Or, according to a detailed report in the daily Izvestia that cited top military sources, Russia might revive an old Soviet-era airfield in Cuba as a base for its Tu-95 and Tu-160 long-range nuclear bombers. Russian officials denied the stories, but experts say there's little doubt they were Kremlin-approved.

"I don't think Russian bombers in Cuba is something to be seriously discussed at the moment, but the leak was clearly designed for psychological impact," says Fyodor Lukyanov, editor of Russia in Global Affairs, a leading foreign-policy journal. "These stories say to the West: 'You'd better start thinking about this, because we are very, very serious.' "



Well known authorities in the area were using the same term

http://www.palgrave-usa.com/catalog/product.aspx?isbn=0230606121



According to the AP Putin specifically used the term to describe relations after the G8 summit in 2007

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/269652/russias_putin_announces_second_cold.html?cat=62

According to the Associated Press, Russian President Vladamir Putin has made further threats against the nuclear missile agreements that have been made in the past. He has also made more threats against the United States and its allies. Putin has issued a warning that a new Cold War has begun.

[iceman66]

11. Hell, he stopped (or at least postponed) WW3!

That is the path that Bush foreign policy was leading us down.

We were actually closer to WW3 in 2006 when Cheney wanted to bomb Iran than DURING the cold war!

[havocmom]

14. Yep. Going at Iran without Russia in agreement (bushco plan) would have been insane

Great profits for the war corporations, but insane for the human race. No way to contain the madman in Iran without getting Russia to go along with a program.

Obama builds sound relationships. cheney/bush just pissed people off for profit. The world is in much better shape now than a year ago. That is for sure.

[treestar]

41. Yet Bush could see into Putin's soul

:rofl:

[Vattel]

13. Wow, a serious argument

that Obama is deserving of the award. Thanks.

[Vidar]

15. This is easily the best rationale I've seen. Recommended.

[grantcart]

16. tks

[Cha]

21. And, it's not just this important

revelation(I say revelation bc ..has the corporatemedia let Americans know about this?), either.

As you know there are many reasons they chose our President to receive the NPP of 2009~

"The committee attached "special importance to Obama's vision and work for a world without nuclear weapons"."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4098367

[Doctor_J]

24. This country now has more domestic enemies than foreign

the subjects of King Glen are a far bigger threat to the nation than the Taliban, Al Qaeda, or Russia. The FBI should be dealing with the domestic terrorists aggressively.

[Solomon]

40. Excellent point

And the OP is a great post.

[thelordofhell]

26. I'm guessing the people who are remaking "Red Dawn" are pissed

:rofl:

[dave29]

37. I think it's the Chinese this time

lol

[BrklynLiberal]

29. Sometimes one does not reallize the full import of one's action immediately.

There is no doubt in my mind that the long term changes that will result from President Obama being in office...and being who he is...will be celebrated and praised for a long time to come.

[DailyGrind51]

36. Does anyone remember why "we" got pissed when "they" put missles in Cuba?

[ejbr]

38. You know what's really funny Rush,

WE agree with the Russians!

[redqueen]

43. K&R

Thanks for posting this.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

45. Devil's Advocate: Is Russia the best source?

When Russia applauds someone for being less belligerent toward Russia that's not necessarily an objective assessment. If Obama announced tomorrow that Russia is free to re-annex Georgia as far as we are concerned it would garner even more Russian praise.

(I thought the Polish anti-missile stuff was ridiculous, for instance, but tended to factor out Russia's less-than-disinterested view in my assessment.)

Not questioning the general truth of the OP, merely the source.

[grantcart]

48. The Russians thought that it was important

The point is that we are eliminating needless roadblocks to better cooperation.


The anti-missle defense system was divisive. It was also a waste of money and a reincarnation of the infamous Maginot Line.

It not only divided US and Russia it was divisive within Europe.



My point is that Obama has gone out of his way to simply stop pissing people off powerful states without a good reason.


In the context of the 21st century and the alternative universe established by the neocons "simply not pissing people off for no good reason" is now the low bar for the Nobel Peace Prize.


Your question "Is Russia a good source"? is a good question.


The answer is Yes, and whatever the Chinese think is also a good source. Russia and China are in a way more key than any other country. They are becoming the masters of the commodity universe and most conflict is now arising in commodity rich/state poor areas and their cooperation will be the key in Darfur areas.


Obama's realworld realignment to take both Russia and China seriously may be the most profound change in American foreign policy in 40 years. If it yields dividends in Iran it will have an impact in Israel.

[Historic NY]

49. See GOP its how our former enemies view the US, now by what was lost..

for 8yrs under *. I guess them BBQ's at the pig farm didn't impress Putin or the rest of the Russia country.

[InfiniteThoughts]

51. it's ok ... retrospect will show how dumb the repubs are. (like it needs any more reinforcements!)

Bush was universally praised by all the talking heads when he landed a plane on the aircraft carrier in 2003 ... we all know now how dumb that move was!

Give it 5 years and you will be left to wonder what all this Nobel Peace Prize noise was! It isn't just my trust in Pres. Obama but the trust i have in the strengths of democracy.

[Blue_Tires]

52. kick

[RepublicanElephant]

55. k &r nt

[Kolesar]

58. Good. Now we can scrap the B-1 bombers and the nuclear submarine fleet

A trillion dollars of the "defense" budget can be put to much better use over the next few years than arming for a conflict that ended twenty years ago.