F'ng Kristoff in the Times today...

[vi5]

Oh thank god he felt compelled to look at both arguments equally. Really. I've never jumped in on the Kristoff bashing because I thought it was largely unjustified (even when I disagreed with him). But this is ridiculous. Even if his conclusion is that Kerry earned his medals the fact that he would even lend any creedence to this garbage is beyond the pale

<snip>
"Each time that I've written about President Bush's dalliance with the National Guard, conservative readers have urged me to scrutinize the accusations against Mr. Kerry. After doing so over the last week, here's where I come out:

Did Mr. Kerry volunteer for dangerous duty? Not as much as his campaign would like you to believe. The Kerry Web site declares, "As he was graduating from Yale, John Kerry volunteered to serve in Vietnam - because, as he later said, 'It was the right thing to do.' "

<snip>

Did Mr. Kerry get his first Purple Heart for a self-inflicted wound? That's the accusation of the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, who say that the injury came (unintentionally) from a grenade that Mr. Kerry himself fired at Viet Cong. In fact, nobody knows where the shrapnel came from, and it's possible that the critics are right....

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

1. Has Kristoff every been in the military?

Has he ever been in combat? If not, he and the other pundits who seem to know so much about purple hearts should talk with veterans-and not just Bob Dole. I mean regular vets, like my neighbor, who was a combat medic in the 101st. My neighbor could let them know what he thinks about them and their judgements-and they might need a medic when he's done.

[Karmadillo]

2. If he doesn't write crap, he doesn't keep his job.

People do all sorts of things for money.

[Crunchy Frog]

10. That's bull!

Kristoff writes columns for the NYT just like Paul Krugman does. Krugman doesn't write crap and he still has his job. Kristoff is the kind of namby pamby, give equal weight to both sides in order to be fair, liberal that is an anachronism in todays world, and who we do not need as a spokesman for the liberal side. I think he needs to be culled from the herd, frankly.

I used to try to give an honest hearing to the other side until I realized that they are completely intellectually dishonest, never say anything new, and that reading and listening to them only raises my blood pressure.

You certainly don't see them giving our side an honest hearing, even though people like Krugman are intellectually honest and open to meaningful debate.

[JPJones]

3. Read the rest of the article n/t

[acmavm]

5. The bottom line:

<snip>
The bottom line? Mr. Kerry has stretched the truth here and there, but earned his decorations. And the Swift Boat Veterans, contradicted by official records and virtually everyone who witnessed the incidents, are engaging in one of the ugliest smears in modern U.S. politics.


<snip>

[Karmadillo]

7. Thanks. All in all, it's a good article.

Not that Kristoff doesn't write crap sometimes. Not that I don't write crap sometimes.

[vi5]

11. I did read the whole article....

I'm sorry but the fact that he feels like he should address the issue simply because he wrote a column about the AWOL issue is ridiculous enough in itself.

And whatever overall positive conclusion he draw at the end of the article is tainted by his insistence on giving any weight to the false accusations from the other side.

The fact is that several times in the article he diminishes or plays down Kerry's choices. And other times he leaves open the possibility that maybe some of Kerry's medals weren't "earned" or that we don't KNOW if they were self inflicted or not.

[NYCGirl]

4. I don't see that. It's a good article and shoots down the Swifties' claims

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/18/opinion/18kristof.html

Did Mr. Kerry deserve his Silver Star? Absolutely. He earned it for responding to two separate ambushes in a courageous and unorthodox way, by heading straight into the gunfire. Then he pursued one armed fighter into the jungle and shot him dead. According to Fred Short, a machine gunner who saw the event, the fighter was an adult (not the half-naked teenager cited by the Swift Boat Veterans) who was preparing to launch a grenade at the boat. "Kerry went into harm's way to save the lives of the guys on the boat," Mr. Short told me. "If he hadn't done that, I am absolutely positive I would not be here today." Mr. Kerry's commander said he had wanted to give him an even higher honor, the Navy Cross, but thought it would take too long to process.

Did Mr. Kerry exaggerate his exploits? Yes. For example, he has often said over the years that he spent Christmas 1968 in Cambodia as part of the secret war there. Others who served with him confirm that on Christmas Eve 1968 (not Christmas Day) he got very close to the border, and possibly even strayed across it. But it doesn't seem to have been, as Mr. Kerry has suggested, a deliberate incursion into Cambodia.

What do those who served with him say? Some who served on other boats have called Mr. Kerry a hypochondriac self-promoter. But every enlisted man who was with Mr. Kerry on various boats when he won Purple Hearts and Silver and Bronze Stars says he deserved them. All praise his courage and back his candidacy. "I was there for two of the Purple Hearts and the Bronze and Silver Stars, and he earned every one of them," said Delbert Sandusky, in a typical comment. "He saved our lives."

The bottom line? Mr. Kerry has stretched the truth here and there, but earned his decorations. And the Swift Boat Veterans, contradicted by official records and virtually everyone who witnessed the incidents, are engaging in one of the ugliest smears in modern U.S. politics.

[mwar]

6. Let's see him do the same thing to Bush

I would love to see him take all the documentation regarding juniors service in TANG and come up with a "bottom line" regarding the content, NOT the validity of the documents.

Something tells me he can't do it.

[against all enemies]

8. Taking this out of context, shame on you.

No link to the entire story? The last sentence says it all, but you left it out. This is the kind of crap that we criticize freepers for doing.

[vi5]

12. You're right about that....

I usually don't link to the Times because you need a membership.

But I still stand by the fact that he shouldn't have felt that he HAD to discuss this simply because he has addressed the questions about bush's record.

I'm the last one to normally complain about this stuff but I stand by the fact that he levels some cheap shots in the piece and that the fact that he feels the need to diminish ANY of Kerry's medals is pathetic.

[JPJones]

9. No, this was perfectly written to get freepers to read the whole article

Suck 'em in with some red meat, they'll keep reading hoping for some more, then hit them with the conclusion in the last line that it is one of the ugliest smears in modern politics.

It also gets Bill Zaldonis' name out their, with a new quote.

"Did Mr. Kerry deserve his Bronze Star? Yes...

Did Mr. Kerry deserve his Silver Star? Absolutely."

[kodi]

13. kristoff would be arguing the inequity of genocide as he's put in an oven

don't quite know what lala land the dude lives in but its sure not here on terra firma.